Originally posted by SrWingCommander
Good questions Xcathrdra, and I don't know if I like where the thoughts lead me too...yikes.
Thanks for answering and I greatly appreciate the view point you have ( and Thank you for your service). The last part of your response is
specifically where I am going with this scenario and asking people to play it out in their minds to the end point result.
To me it runs paralell to what hapens if during a criminal investigation evidence is illegally acquired, resulting in the seizure of even more damning
If the evidence that started the entire chain is illegally obtained, then we use the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine (exceptions exist but you
get the idea). It says that evidence, and any and all evidence subsequently obtained as a direct result of the first tainted evidence, is
If the President takes an action that dissolves Congress and suspends elections, an act that is illegal (and again in my opinion and based on the
scenario treasonous both at the fedral AND state level), then the resulting actions of individuals who would refuse to follow certain orders, while
illegal on its face, would be acting legally in the end. An argument for a court room to be sure bvut on e myust ask the question, in a scenario like
this, if that last part is even a possibility.
If actions are taken to dissove and suspend elections, then one can assume that the chances of legal redress using the courts is also going to be
intefered with or outright ignored. Effectively removing an entire branch of government, the legislative, and pointing out that branch directly
represnets the American people, leads me to beleive it would be just the start and will not simply stop there.
Whilie I completely and totally understand the importance of a chain of command, undue command influence, and what can occur should good order and
discipline completely fail, I am still brought back to the need for people in positions of authority, those who will carry out orders, to have the
ability to look at the reasons for such and order and to ask if those roders are in fact lawful and constitutional (with regards to this specific
scenario - this area is so unique we cannot view it in broad strokes).
The President, seeing a loss in the elections, takes an unprecedented, and illegal, step to suspend the elections.
The President, seeing the US Congress looking at impeachment, takes the step of dissolving Congress.
This is going to force an immediate review by the US Supreme Court of those actions, with the results being the actions are illegal and
unconstitutional, falling outside the power granted to the President under the Constitution.
This means the US Supreme Court is ignored / removed.
This actons alone should be enough for any individual in government, the military forces or law enforcement at all levels to see that any orders
issued that are linked into the origional illegal actions are also going to be ilegal. We can delve into the oath of office taken at all levels for
various groups within that require an allegiance to the document itself and not the individual.
Removing all levels of federal or state entities, we still have the population of the United States who are not going to agree with or like those
actions, and will take action on their own, regardless if they are supported by the military or law enforcement.
We are then faced with the scenarios we see all over the world where the actions of the government, which ellicit massive population blowback, somehow
try to justify their actions regardless of how illegal they are.
With that being said our Constitution allows the people to overthrow our government every 2 years, lawfully. All that is required is an active
populace who vote. We do in fact have term limits at the federal level - they are called elections. Its not enough to simply vote anymore. A person
must move beyond that one day and hold those elected officals accountible.
If we are that concerned about Obamas actions there is nothing stopping a citizen from getting with their elected officals to draft a bill that
specifically prohibits certain actions, like using an EO to bypass Congress.
The very document the government uses to justify its actions allows the population to tell the government they are fired.
** - In general and not directed at you - **
Vote - get involved - hold people accountible, including yourselves, for those who do not bother to vote or keep watch after the vote.
The use of force to change government, while allowed under our Constitution, should only be used as an extreme last resort - something our founding
fathers demonstrated by exhausting all attempts at redress to the crown before opening up a keg of whoop ass at Concord and Lexington.
"Inter arma enim silent leges " - This statement is leaving the people as the sole entity that is responsible for saying no.
edit on 17-10-2012
by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-10-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)