Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

My alien can beat your alien! Foolishness in beliefs.

page: 2
2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join

posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 06:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by The Shrike
Let's cut to the chase: if you can provide evidence that your alien really exists and I accept your evidence then I'll change from a skeptic about the reality of aliens to one of acceptance.


Quickly, prove to me that you exist, and that you are who you say you are...otherwise, I won't believe that you are real, and that you are actually a computer spitting out pre-programmed conversation.




posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 09:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by The Shrike
 


Another idea worthy of noting in your history of how 'Grey Aliens' were created is the theory that The Outer Limits TV show influenced Betty and Barney Hills depiction of Aliens.

On the "10th of February 1964; 12 days prior to the Hill's undergoing hypnosis, the science fiction series The Outer Limits ran an episode entitled "The Bellero Shield", which featured a hairless, noseless alien with a bulbous head and 'wrap-around eyes'." source

That they had seen the episode is disputed by Betty though....I thought it was worth mentioning nonetheless.

Also other Episodes of The Outer Limits that played just before the Hill's hypnosis have been suggested as having just as much of an influence, or even more than 'The Bellero Shield', An interesting discussion of this can be found in this article www.jasoncolavito.com...


I'm glad you brought this up as I've also mentioned it in all of my replies dealing with the Hills. Additionally, and what many young 'uns do not know because they haven't delved into Betty's life is that she was active in UFOlogy but I can't find that source presently.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 09:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by taccj9903

Originally posted by The Shrike

Originally posted by taccj9903
Dominant in what? Politics, science, military, business?


Yes, in everything for we skeptics and atheists are superior to believers. We don't carry mental baggage that is not beneficial.


So if I understand you correctly you are saying someone who is an atheist or skeptic is superior to someone who believes in aliens. And that atheists and skeptics mental baggage is more beneficial somehow to the mental baggage of say anyone who believes in aliens.

I'm not even sure why I bothered to reply to this most after realizing what you are saying. I'll take my mental baggage over yours anyday.


No, I didn't say that "...someone who is an atheist or skeptic is superior to someone who believes in aliens.", you did! Beliefs in aliens is a personal commitment, i.e., you will yourself to believe that they are real. In the meantime, there is no evidence for their reality which is de rigueur for skeptics. Skeptics do not believe expect evidence to support the claims.

Atheists and skeptics do not have the mental baggage that believers do! You seem to have it all backwards. You believe in aliens because you are not a questioning individual and therefore someone just saying that aliens exist and are abducting humans is good enough for you. But not for skeptics. They have higher ideals.

However, let me state as a natural skeptic, that not all skeptics are open minded and reserve judgement until the evidence comes in. They're close minded and they are just as bad as believers. An example of such a person is arch-skeptic Robert Sheaffer. Nothing convinces him that UFOs are real. No amount of photos, films and videos convince him they're real. He's waiting for one to land on the White House lawn.

You can have your mental baggage, it just keeps increasing as you live the life of a believer. Me, I'm as light as a feather. When I do a good deed, I'm doing it for the pleasure of helping. Believers do it because they believe it'll help them get into heaven (believers is a blanket statement for all believers are by rote religious believers).



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Catacomb

Originally posted by The Shrike
Let's cut to the chase: if you can provide evidence that your alien really exists and I accept your evidence then I'll change from a skeptic about the reality of aliens to one of acceptance.


Quickly, prove to me that you exist, and that you are who you say you are...otherwise, I won't believe that you are real, and that you are actually a computer spitting out pre-programmed conversation.
this actually the way you SHOULD think. Afterall this is just text.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by stiver

Originally posted by The Shrike

Can you imagine the wonders that humankind would have accomplished if skeptics and atheists had been dominant instead of believers who have stunted humankind's growth? Oh, to dream.


This was already tried in the former Soviet Union, which was the first country to attempt elimination of religion and making atheism the official doctrine of the ruling communist party, considering religion nonscientific. Think Lenin and Stalin - not exactly your dream leaders that brought peace and prosperity to the world.

A little morality and tolerance to people's beliefs may work better. And education.

Speaking as a skeptic and atheist myself.

edit on 17-10-2012 by stiver because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-10-2012 by stiver because: (no reason given)


That's not what I meant and I'm guilty of not being clearer. The system cannot be changed, it is what it is. But I fantasied about the opposite having happened. If religion hadn't been dominant. But thanks to Columbus, most of humankind is programmed to be inferior thinkers. Religion is a cult and cult deprogrammers will tell you how difficult it is to deprogram believers. Atheism is not scientific, it just is and it is the normal way of life. Whe you are born your mind has no beliefs. If you are born to atheist parents you won't develop religious beliefs. But it's the opposite for those born to believing parents. With exceptions, of course since I was born into a catholic family but it never took with me since they didn't pound my fertile mind with religious suggestions.

"A little morality and tolerance to people's beliefs may work better. And education." It is only natural to put up with peoples' beliefs in order to live in today's society. But it is more of a putting up with it than accepting it. Believers are responsible for keeping humankind stunted. Education obviously is not of help to them.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by The Shrike
 


It is highly unlikely that aliens would ever abduct anyone. with techonogly that advanced they would only need a single dna sample. Also over billions of years of techonogical advancement the only thing that remains would likely be synthetic.

Social interations and the progress of civilizations arent nearly as unpredictable as some believe..


Ergo, claims of alien abductions have no reality. Besides, why should aliens, if they existed and were interacting with humans in the most negative fashion, pick on average and less than average humans when they can pick on the geniuses of our day, those whose mental brilliance dictate what our lives depend on.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT
I will say this again can the OP provide evidence that proves beyond all doubt that there is no possibility of there being advanced ET intelligences having the teck to visit us and that not ONE high strangeness UFO case can be possibly afforded to a ET source.Off course the OP cannot ,cannot prove that there is no possibility and for that REALITY and the cold hard fact is that the OP fails in trying to yet again attack the ET possibility of being a source for just ONE UFO case,that in its self suggests an agenda of not just ones opinion ,(biased), which is really based on no real scientific rebuffs or evidence but an agenda of the burden of proof mentality that in reality is an attempt to dismantle any real evidence already in out there that is not the "nuts and bolts" or "UFO landing on the Whitehouse lawn" demands.

I often ask myself that when people start threads attacking the lack of real evidence for ET visitations or even rejecting any of the evidence outside the "Whitehouse lawn" demands from credible sources like Dr James E MacDonald what POSITION of credibility ,be it scientific or military do they have to justify their rejections of lets say Dr MaDonalds investigation's , in what way do they hold sway over such sources.The arrogance and lack of justifications of credibility so often transparent in these kind of threads is DAMAGING to the conclusions and scientific investigative proceeduars carried out by sources like MacDonald and the conclusions he reached by them.

We could be POSSIBLY dealing with highly advanced intelligences not only in the technological capabilities but also in the spiritual or inter dimensional capabilities too.Who is to say otherwise that there is NO possibility in either of these realities , it may serve a purpose and seem mighty clever to deliberately list known hoaxes or money making individuals to attack the possibility of the ET origins but what about those cases that stand up on their own, that remain unsolved due to the high levels of strangeness they contain and that applies to abduction or contact cases too.

The often lop sided or biased content that is transparent in these kind of "attack and demand evidence" threads more often than not NEVER mention or include those cases that are hard to dismiss or debunk, that for me is the red flag , they ignore or reject them not out of a justifiable and credible scientific stand point but because these cases serve as a credible reminder that to dismiss ALL possibilities of ET origins is both unprofessional,un scientific and unjustified.That there are other formats of evidence out side the "Whitehouse lawn" demands is a reality that cannot be overlooked or dismissed by those who unjustifiably reject such data because it serves no purpose to their attacks.

Sources like Dr James E , MacDonald and his conclusions after his investigation's,(including the hundreds of credible witnesses he also interviewed), have to be included in any debate or rejection of the possible ET origins for some UFO cases,that is no flight of fancy or even an unjustifiable demand but one that needs welcoming and i for one choose to make the foundation of my perception that some UFOs could very well have a ET origin on the evidence put forward by such sources as MacDonald,he is the kind of source that i listen too,why because its a scientific and credible way to approach this UFO./ET enigma.
edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: (no reason given)
edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: (no reason given)


" I will say this again can the OP provide evidence that proves beyond all doubt that there is no possibility of there being advanced ET intelligences having the teck to visit us and that not ONE high strangeness UFO case can be possibly afforded to a ET source."

You don't seem to be aware that it is not up to me to provide any evidence since I'm not making claims that "advanced ET intelligences" are visiting Earth. It is up to those making such claims to provide evidence to support their claims and if they can't then their claims are baseless and worthless. Our court system depends on evidence, not on hearsay. And can you also provide evidence that UFOs have any connection to an ET source? There are UFOs all over the place and no one has yet said that they've seen them arriving from a vast distance. The moon is about as ET as they get since their presence there cannot be denied.

My thread is not just my opinion, it is an opinion held by many who don't accept without evidence and, frankly, no one can supply such evidence. Believers make up the majority so we "dissenters" have to put up with a barrage of insults from the believers but we know better and we wouldn't lose money on any bet supporting such views.

You name people that you think, AND BELIEVE, know more than anyone about UFOs and aliens. NONE do



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by K-PAX-PROT
 


can anyone prove I'm not a 50 foot kick-ass super ninja from space? of course not silly.

I believe what is laid out is a good case for an alien mythology. I personally believe that humans need mythologies to be human. there does not appear to be any tangible evidence for ET. it than stands that it's a mythology.
edit on 17-10-2012 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)


If only there were more thinkers such as you as members here. But then we're in short supply!



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by The Shrike

The early cases didn't matter, in the long run, because while there are always believers, for some reason humans in the '50s and '60s had a higher standard in believing outrageous claims. Their descendants, today's youth, don't have the higher standards and believe everything, hence beliefs in hostile aliens.



So early cases didn't matter because they had higher standards in illusion?

Today's cases don't matter because today's youth don't have higher standards?

Belief in bad aliens denotes lower standards.

You are offended because the illusions of today aren't warm and fuzzy?

Seems if you don't believe in aliens then you could pretty much end it there.
Being bothered by today's youth having no standards and believing in hostile aliens really seems a bit too involved for someone who knows that everyone who believes in aliens is wrong.

Sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself of something.


UFOlogy in the '50s was a nascent fantasy and it was just a few that were reporting sightings. Once blood was smelled, "creative" minds saw the potential for a quick buck but it wasn't widespread. So, the result was that while the proponents of "space visitors" were able to attract followers, their claims were not as widely accepted because UFOs were still a rare sight and people shrugged off the claims made by people such as Adamski.

Now, claims of ETs are widely accepted because of the abundant quantities of sightings and it's easier for the majority, who are naturally believers, to link ETs with UFOs and believers not requiring evidence find their way to ATS ALIENS & UFOS don't realize that their standards for accepting unsupportable claims are higher than in the past.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by MarrsAttax

Originally posted by The Shrike

Alien life is NOT real, that's just a romantic thought. You are just espousing a belief held by many.



Alien life hasn't been proved but statistically the chances of Earth being the only place life exists are miniscule. Rather than being a romantic thought, I suspect most scientists believe that alien life exists.

If it doesn't then that would be more baffling and certainly harder to explain. Life would then have to be viewed as something so amazingly unlikely as to almost be a miracle.

Assuming that life developed on Earth in accordance with the known physical properties of matter, then it must be assumed that the same thing will occur wherever and wherever the same conditions arise, assuming the same physical laws apply across the universe. In a universe with an incomprehensible amount of stars, the safe money has to be on life having arisen many, many, many times elsewhere.
edit on 17/10/2012 by MarrsAttax because: (no reason given)


I'm not a teacher, not officially anyway. But because I am a senior citizen and I've had many experiences, the unexperienced can learn from mine. In UFOlogy, i've been an enthusiast since 1958. I've forgotten more than some members here will ever learn. I don't make claims, I challenge them.

When you say that you "suspect most scientists believe that alien life exists." you are expressing a belief that you would like support with. You have no concept that "most" scientists believe that alien life exists. You haven't conducted a poll (I'm assuming but if I'm wrong, supply the poll results). And to make it worse and working against you is the fact that beliefs are created by the mind. So if you were to conduct a poll and the results were that some, most, or all scientists believe in alien life that does not make it so since you are not dealing with facts supported by evidence.

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.

Psychological: Of, affecting, or arising in the mind;



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:30 PM
link   
No one here is going to convince you to believe anything. You're going to have to put your own time into it and come to a conclusion for yourself.

The fact is, that anyone can debunk anything. It's very easy to say "Prove to me this" or "Convince me of that" and dismiss every piece of evidence as "They're lying", "That's a plastic bag" "It looks to me like x", "Photoshop!" etc... The list can go on forever. And it's really convenient for skeptics to use any of the above excuses because it requires far less evidence than to prove something is real.

Personally, I love all of these fantastic stories of the world and universe. Sometimes you find duds, but every once in a while you get a case that can't be explained. It's exciting finding those and trying to put together the story of the world and space. To me, it's better than assuming everything came from nothing, cause that sounds so bland to me. Maybe one day you'll find something that convinces you of something greater, but until then, you're probably not gonna find it here.

And don't say that you don't think you're better than believers. Cause your saying that you have less "baggage" than them. You don't know what kind of baggage anyone carries.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by spinalremain
1. You really believe we are all alone in this universe?

2. The normal skeptic simply dismisses ET visitation due to lack of concrete evidence, and so they should.
You're actually taking a giant leap of faith and proclaiming that aliens aren't real at all.

3. The numbers alone would suggest otherwise to an overwhelming degree.
4. Why are you so convinced there is no alien life?

5. If you cannot see beyond the mountain, do you infer that nothing is there?

6. Im very curious about why you believe what you do.


I've numbered your questions so that you can see the clear answer for each one.
1. Not having a belief system I can state only that I live my life giving no thought to any type of being other than Earthlings. Not having a belief system is difficult for most to digest. But since I know that beliefs are created by the mind, I do not create beliefs. I either know or don't know. I don't believe, I accept or I don't accept. Beliefs result in nothing being achieved.

2. Well, if there is no evidence then the point is "moot". Aliens are a human creation. No one has proven otherwise.

3. There are no numbers. You have to have a source to come up with even one. All numbers that you think exist are/were created by humans out of whole cloth.

4. I am convinced because I have not had the experience that would change my mind. Before I had my UFO sightings I didn't believe they existed but what was being reported, more and more, allowed me to keep them in the back burner, so to speak. Once I had my first sighting then I knew they were/are real.

5. I do not infer, but I would be curious to see what there is beyond. Life has taught me that there is always something behind each mountain. But there has been evidence to support the acceptance.

6. I do not believe, see answer to 1. Again, I either know or I don't. There is no middle ground except that filled in by believers and I'm not one.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Catacomb

Originally posted by The Shrike
Let's cut to the chase: if you can provide evidence that your alien really exists and I accept your evidence then I'll change from a skeptic about the reality of aliens to one of acceptance.


Quickly, prove to me that you exist, and that you are who you say you are...otherwise, I won't believe that you are real, and that you are actually a computer spitting out pre-programmed conversation.


It is very simple for me to prove to you that I exist. Let's meet.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian

Originally posted by Catacomb

Originally posted by The Shrike
Let's cut to the chase: if you can provide evidence that your alien really exists and I accept your evidence then I'll change from a skeptic about the reality of aliens to one of acceptance.


Quickly, prove to me that you exist, and that you are who you say you are...otherwise, I won't believe that you are real, and that you are actually a computer spitting out pre-programmed conversation.
this actually the way you SHOULD think. Afterall this is just text.


Besides, how can it be "pre-programmed conversation" since the poster created his/her part of the conversation as she typed! And I'm reacting to it. Of course, I'm assuming I'm dealing with humans!



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by BrianVillar
No one here is going to convince you to believe anything. You're going to have to put your own time into it and come to a conclusion for yourself.

The fact is, that anyone can debunk anything. It's very easy to say "Prove to me this" or "Convince me of that" and dismiss every piece of evidence as "They're lying", "That's a plastic bag" "It looks to me like x", "Photoshop!" etc... The list can go on forever. And it's really convenient for skeptics to use any of the above excuses because it requires far less evidence than to prove something is real.

Personally, I love all of these fantastic stories of the world and universe. Sometimes you find duds, but every once in a while you get a case that can't be explained. It's exciting finding those and trying to put together the story of the world and space. To me, it's better than assuming everything came from nothing, cause that sounds so bland to me. Maybe one day you'll find something that convinces you of something greater, but until then, you're probably not gonna find it here.

And don't say that you don't think you're better than believers. Cause your saying that you have less "baggage" than them. You don't know what kind of baggage anyone carries.


Come to a conclusion about what?

Not everyone can debunk. Debunking is an "art" at which I'm good at. Debunking is not what you think it is for debunking is proving a false claim to be false. As I did with Hoagland's claim about "crystal ruins" on another thread. I proved him to be pulling a hoax.

You are misreading skeptics also. Skeptics just want evidence instead of hearsay. Anyone can make a claim and believers accept it willy-nilly. A skeptic doesn't. Evidence is the end result to something being declared real, not partially but fully.

You also don't seem to know the mental freedom skeptics and atheists enjoy. Particularly atheists. We don't waste our mental energy supporting religious myths or being afraid of god or of the dark. We don't waste our mental energy convincing childrens' fertile minds that when they die they're going to see baby jesus, or that if they don't walk a straight and narrow path and pray the triune satan will get them. No sir, that kind of thinking belongs to an inferior mind. Yes, believing is almost universal.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 12:35 AM
link   
Come to a conclusion on the existence of aliens. You've already made up your mind though, so no point in asking the nice folks here to convince you if it wont change anything.

Most "believers" are actually skeptics, who take the time to review evidence and claims, then make a decision. Just because their final decision is to "believe" a certain claim, that doesn't mean they have an inferior mind. That's kind of a petty insult for someone with such a superior brain. I've never ran into anyone that blindly believed in ufos based solely on a claim. They usually have some kind of evidence that helped to convince them. Sometimes they don't have all the facts for something and people make uninformed decisions. It happens. And the same is true for people that refuse to believe. They gather facts, review, make a decision and go with it. Sometimes both sides are wrong, and that's ok.

Truth is, nobody knows what happens when people die. So just because you don't agree with the idea, doesn't mean it isn't true. Prove to me that nothing happens after you die. If you can't, then you cannot say with 100% certainty that nothing happens. Do some of the religious ideas seem a bit farfetched? Sure. But since you DONT KNOW, you cannot give evidence for it being false.

I believe in ufos and my mind feels pretty free. I like how i'm using my brain power. Life is good.

Sure, you don't waste your time telling children of the afterlife and the boogeyman, but you sure do waste mental energy on some internet forum telling folks about how wrong they are about their beliefs and how free your mind is. Sounds like a waste of mental energy.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 04:20 AM
link   
reply to post by The Shrike
 


I haven't conducted a poll it's true.

I have however watched and read many famous scientists express their opinion that life exists elsewhere in the universe for example Richard Dawkins, Seth Shostak, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Michio Kaku


I have yet to hear to one scientist state the opinion that life is unique to Earth.

We're still waiting for these opinions to be validated but that's because the science is still being done. However, there is 'evidence' (not proof) that life exists elsewhere: the evidence is the enormous size of the universe and the fact that we know that life can arise given the correct conditions. That evidence lets us postulate that life exist elsewhere. To postulate that life is unique to Earth you have to to ignore the size of the universe and declare life on earth to be an event that basically contradicts most normal physical processes.



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 06:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by The Shrike

I don't believe in anything 'cause I don't have a belief system and never did. So religious myths are personas non grata with me. I understand what makes a believer thanks to being taught hypnosis by a legend and associating with other legends, top hypnotists.



So you don't believe in anything, eh? When you go to sleep at night you don't believe that you will wake up the next morning? So you never make any plans for the future because you don't believe that you will be alive then? Do you believe that the man you were told was your father is actually your biological father? You don't believe that the human race is a result of Natural Selection and evolution either?



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 07:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheFlash

Originally posted by The Shrike

I don't believe in anything 'cause I don't have a belief system and never did. So religious myths are personas non grata with me. I understand what makes a believer thanks to being taught hypnosis by a legend and associating with other legends, top hypnotists.



So you don't believe in anything, eh? When you go to sleep at night you don't believe that you will wake up the next morning? So you never make any plans for the future because you don't believe that you will be alive then? Do you believe that the man you were told was your father is actually your biological father? You don't believe that the human race is a result of Natural Selection and evolution either?


Big difference between micro-evolution, or 'natural selection' which is the proven process that species gradually change over time at the cellular level to better adapt to their changing environment so that they don't get sick and die out, and macro-evolution, or Darwinism the belief that we magically changed from primate to human. I'm guessing the latter is his religious belief.
edit on 18-10-2012 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 08:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by BlackManINC

Originally posted by TheFlash

Originally posted by The Shrike

I don't believe in anything 'cause I don't have a belief system and never did. So religious myths are personas non grata with me. I understand what makes a believer thanks to being taught hypnosis by a legend and associating with other legends, top hypnotists.



So you don't believe in anything, eh? When you go to sleep at night you don't believe that you will wake up the next morning? So you never make any plans for the future because you don't believe that you will be alive then? Do you believe that the man you were told was your father is actually your biological father? You don't believe that the human race is a result of Natural Selection and evolution either?


Big difference between micro-evolution, or 'natural selection' which is the proven process that species gradually change over time at the cellular level to better adapt to their changing environment so that they don't get sick and die out, and macro-evolution, or Darwinism the belief that we magically changed from primate to human. I'm guessing the latter is his religious belief.
edit on 18-10-2012 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)


'Magic'? That's what a savage taken from his jungle tribe calls an automatic door when he first sees it. If he is educated in the science he comes to understand it is just that - science.






top topics



 
2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join