I have proof Obamacare will ruin healthcare in America

reply to post by grandmakdw

My bill, well good for me, my copay was, ta da, $30. But,,,,,,, here is the kicker ..... and my husband and I have seen this over and over and over with our healthcare and feel fortunate that our Doctors and the local fantastic hospital will take our insurance .......... the bill to the insurance company was around $5K (about $1K per day, which all considering I think is quite reasonable) ..... what did my insurance pay? ....... $600. That's right. About what you would pay to stay in a low end hotel with a free breakfast.

I am having some trouble believing the insurance company only paid 600 dollars to the hospital. I suspect it is not a full bill and many area's are billed separately.

You are right, a hospital would go bankrupt on this. It is not enough to pay nurse's round the clock, medication, PT, etc.

I am on Medicare and when I signed up the rep told me that the gov pays the insurance company 600-800 per month per person.

I went to the dr, this year. His bill to insurance was 155, insurance paid 94, almost 2/3's the total bill. My co-pay was 10. Why the insurance co would pay a hospital only about 1/10th with the more intensive care received makes no sense.

Either you insurance is not like medicare or you don't yet have a complete bill.

Originally posted by AntiNWO

Originally posted by longlostbrother
Yeah but look at your avatar. You're hardly a reasonable person to listen to. You freely admit you robbed your fellow tax payers of thousands of dollars, you think that's fine. At the same time you're scared of the government (the people that made sure your bills were paid for, btw.) and would rather a status quo where you can just rob me when it suits you...

So if I disagree with your messiah's crapping on the U.S. Constitution, then in your eyes my opinion on our current healthcare system is worthless? I'm sure that makes sense to you.

And you're saying that if you pay higher taxes because of Obamacare then you're robbing the taxpayers if you use it? Seems like twisted logic to me, but I would expect nothing less from a liberal.

I "robbed" no one. I already paid into this (state) tax system for this very purpose. There are several points that unsuprisingly went right over your head:

1. I only qualified for this because I was temporarily unemployed and had already paid into it.
2. I am paying into it right at this moment and will be as long as I am employed.
3. I used STATE healthcare system, which cannot be compared to the enormous mess that is Obamacare.
4. Most states have such a plan in place already and thus Obamacare is not even needed.
5. States are many times less bureaucratic than the federal government, meaning cheaper and more efficient.
6. People actually read this bill and knew what was in it before passing it in the state legislature.

See... you can't even begin to be rational. I don't even LIKE Obama, but no, that's not an option for you... I disagree with your IMO insane belief that Obama is "crapping" on the constitution, as we still have, last I checked a Supreme court, whose job it is to decide if something is constitutional. Maybe you need a civics course?

As for the wrong assertion that your state taxes are paid so that you can use the emergency room at will, well first it's just wrong, and only someone with a huge misunderstanding of how medicine works in America would think such a thing; secondly, it grossly underestimates the cost of healthcare - you certainly haven't paid enough in taxes to use emergency rooms as your PCP.

Now onto your points:

1. You paid into it, but that's not the same as saying you paid for it, quite obviously. The taxpayers picked up the rest... I'm sure they appreciated the small percentage you paid, but would prefer you not to rob them.
2. Again, you pay into it, but that's the same as buying the right to use emergency healthcare as your primary care... you used an emergency service and we all paid for it. If we had a proper healthcare system we'd all have healthcare, all pay into it and there'd be no need for you to leech off the rest of us.
3. You're obviously in no position to say that, as most of Obamacare hasn't even kicked in, so you obviously haven't used it... no one has. So yeah, you're just making stuff up...
4. Most states? Well that's amazing... aren't you lucky you happened to live in one? What about the states that don't have a pro-leech system? And what about the absurd levels of waste that are brought into the system by using emergency healthcare as PCPs?
5. Bwahahaha - that's hilarious. You're saying California is more effective than say, the IRS? At any rate, one of the LEAST efficient medical spends going is using emergency medical coverage for healthcare. You want efficiency? Try Europe where countries spend much less and get better results. That's pretty much the definition of efficiency. In fact, America has one of the LEAST efficient systems in the industrialised world... and also tends to over-medicate everyone... the REASON Obamacare exists is because the system you took advantage of, and in fact the entire US medical system, is an international joke.
6. "this bill" - you mean Obamacare? It doesn't really matter though, because I'd wager you haven't read it, have you? Get most of your talking points about it from Fox and right-wing blogs, do you?

Here's Mitt Romney calling you a Socialist:



Go back to Russia commie.

If no one wants this, why can't we stop it?

Originally posted by Hockenberry
If no one wants this, why can't we stop it?

Lot's of people want it... and you can't stop it because neither candidate for President is really against it... because it makes sense and will save money and will give more people better coverage, so they don't have to steal from their neighbors when they lose their job and need healthcare coverage...

the best healthcare in the world comes from socialised systems... the private US system ranks very low relative to other countries with similar levels of wealth...

and guess what... Obamacare was written (years ago) by bob dole and then passed by a Republican Governor (Mitt Romney.. it's a right-wing plan...

reply to post by grandmakdw


I have proof that the NHS is a good service. My proof is the titanium plate and the screws that are holding my snapped tibia and fibula together so that I can walk again. None of this cost me a penny other than the minute percentage of my wages that goes to National Insurance.

Actually I was unemployed when it happened, yet I was seen to immediately and given all the painkillers I could ask for. Again, it didn't cost me a penny...

You think the NHS is so bad? Try living in the UK and experiencing it first hand. Yes there are some rare issues with it but in general it's a good service and they don't discriminate based on social status.

I would hate to live somewhere where I couldn't count on a hospital treating me when I needed it.

Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

I'm glad your daughter is ok, that is wonderful.

However, what I saw of the German system when I lived there was long waiting lines and long waits if you had anything serious. I heard my German neighbors complain if there were a serious illness for older people.

I even came to the perverse conclusion that the government doesn't discourage the rampant smoking and over drinking because it kills people at a younger age. Taking care of end of life terrific expenses at an earlier age costs less than years and years of pensions and then paying for end of life high expenses. I came to that conclusion because the government doesn't seem to discourage bad physical habits, (fatty fried foods, chain smoking, alcohol costing less per ml than water) I nearly choked to death every time I went out in public with the cloud of second hand smoke.

By the way, nonetheless, I LOVED my years in Germany and miss a great deal about it. It may not sound like it, but I really did love my years there. Choooooooosssseeee

Germany has a higher life expectancy than the U.S. The list i saw put them way ahead of U.S for life expectancy.

Here are countries with Universal Health Care:

truecostblog.com... hcare-by-date/


Norway 1912
New Zealand 1938
Japan 1938
Germany 1941
Belgium 1945
United Kingdom 1948
Kuwait 1950
Sweden 1955
Bahrain 1957
Brunei 1958
Canada 1966
Netherlands 1966
Austria 1967
United Arab Emirates 1971
Finland 1972
Slovenia 1972
Denmark 1973
Luxembourg 1973
France 1974
Australia 1975
Ireland 1977
Italy 1978
Portugal 1979
Cyprus 1980
Greece 1983
Spain 1986
South Korea 1988
Iceland 1990
Hong Kong 1993
Singapore 1993
Switzerland 1994
Israel 1995

United States 2014?

reply to post by Malcher


Quite. I used to think that the world followed Americana but now I realise, America are far behind the majority of the world in their thinking. USA has some serious catching up to do.

Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by grandmakdw

 

My insurance is the military health insurance which pays the same as medicare, and will be merged with Obamacare, and will be what Obamacare will pay once it is in full force.

This is false.

There is no such thing as a type of insurance that will be called "Obamacare". That is the nickname the entire legislation was given. There is no new government sponsored insurance plan that is in it.

That's why the horror stories out of England, who has had for
years "Obamacare".

Once again, this is false.

The UK has nothing like "Obamacare". There system is actually much better.

For those of you who are for it, wait until you are on death's door under it and are left to rot in a bed, or even denied care because you have aged out of being eligible for a life saving procedure, given pain pills and sent home to die. Yes, that is in Obamacare.

This is a lie started by the brain whiz Sara Palin.


In short, your entire post is full of mis-information and outright lies.

reply to post by HostileApostle


Everyone knows it is a nickname. Are you really that concerned about having people call it the "Affordable Health Care Act"? How many people do you know actually use that term? Obamacare really rolls off the tongue so much easier. Personally, I would just as soon call it MarxCare, know what I mean? Or how about LeninCare? How about RationCare?

You and many others do not wish to address the real problems that come of rationed health care, and unfortunately you will not admit that rationing is what it is about. It is depopulation under the guise of getting more people health insurance.

Here is a story about hospital infections in Britain.

So it is acutely awkward for his successor, Gordon Brown, that, 10 years on, his government is scrambling to fend off accusations of crisis in the NHS following a damning report about hospital infections that critics say is symptomatic of a wider malaise in British healthcare
Health Secretary Alan Johnson was forced to apologize in Parliament this week after it emerged that at least 90 patients in southeast England died as a result of infections picked up in the hospital.

The Healthcare Commission, a national watchdog, blamed safety lapses and overcrowding. It painted a bleak picture of teeming wards where overworked nurses didn't even help patients to the bathroom.

Dr. Lister says government-imposed targets have instilled a commercial culture, resulting in "perverse" imperatives like cost-control and "productivity" driving decisionmaking in hospitals. "It's the burger-bar style of efficiency – the more you can do with fewer staff the better," he says. "But patient safety seems to come at the bottom of the list.... The Hippocratic oath has gone out of the window."

www.csmonitor.com...

So let's see, overcrowding, safety lapses, cost-cutting, overworked nurses....yep sounds like all the stuff people are saying will happen under RationCare.

reply to post by Bearack


"This video does not exist"

Oopsies maybe you can find another one because I want to know what your answer was to this guy.

reply to post by Malcher


Well Greece is doing great economically, now. People are protesting in Spain now over austerities. I wonder if that extends to healthcare there?

reply to post by longlostbrother

the best healthcare in the world comes from socialised systems... the private US system ranks very low relative to other countries with similar levels of wealth...

I guess France must not be similar in wealth then. I personally worked with a woman who was hit by a car while visiting France, and the hospital did not do the surgery properly. She told me this whole horror story at work one day, was having constant pains in her leg. She had to go back to hospital, she said, and have them rebreak the leg and reset it because the hospital in France did not do it correctly.

So your story that all these countries with Universal healthcare are so much better than the us is bogus, and likely some propaganda.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

the best healthcare in the world comes from socialised systems... the private US system ranks very low relative to other countries with similar levels of wealth...

I guess France must not be similar in wealth then. I personally worked with a woman who was hit by a car while visiting France, and the hospital did not do the surgery properly. She told me this whole horror story at work one day, was having constant pains in her leg. She had to go back to hospital, she said, and have them rebreak the leg and reset it because the hospital in France did not do it correctly.

So your story that all these countries with Universal healthcare are so much better than the us is bogus, and likely some propaganda.

LOL at your one story...

So based on your "logic" if I can find TWO people who've had botched procedures in America, then America's healthcare is TWICE AS BAD as France's...??!?!?

Or... hey, why not look at something useful, like statistics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh hey look who's number one: France

Look who's number 37: America.

But no no, I'm sure that one lady who you mentioned is probably all the evidence you'll ever need.

reply to post by longlostbrother


Well, it is a true story, and the point is that Universal health care in France does not trump care in the US. How hard is it to understand that point?

By the way, from your source:

The WHO rankings have been subject to much criticism concerning their methodology, scientificity, and usefulness. Dr Philip Musgrove wrote that the rankings are meaningless because they oversimplify: "numbers confer a spurious precision".[3]
Journalist John Stossel notes that the use of life expectancy figures is misleading and the life expectancy in the United States is held down by homicides, accidents, poor diet, and lack of exercise. When controlled for these facts, Stossel claims that American life expectancy is actually one of the highest in the world.[4] A publication by the Pacific Research Institute in 2006 claims to have found that Americans outlive people in every other Western country, when controlled for homicides and car accidents.[5] Stossel also criticizes the ranking for favoring socialized healthcare, noting that "a country with high-quality care overall but 'unequal distribution' would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution."[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

But nice try buddy.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by HostileApostle

 

Everyone knows it is a nickname. Are you really that concerned about having people call it the "Affordable Health Care Act"? How many people do you know actually use that term? Obamacare really rolls off the tongue so much easier. Personally, I would just as soon call it MarxCare, know what I mean? Or how about LeninCare? How about RationCare?

You and many others do not wish to address the real problems that come of rationed health care, and unfortunately you will not admit that rationing is what it is about. It is depopulation under the guise of getting more people health insurance.

Here is a story about hospital infections in Britain.

So it is acutely awkward for his successor, Gordon Brown, that, 10 years on, his government is scrambling to fend off accusations of crisis in the NHS following a damning report about hospital infections that critics say is symptomatic of a wider malaise in British healthcare
Health Secretary Alan Johnson was forced to apologize in Parliament this week after it emerged that at least 90 patients in southeast England died as a result of infections picked up in the hospital.

The Healthcare Commission, a national watchdog, blamed safety lapses and overcrowding. It painted a bleak picture of teeming wards where overworked nurses didn't even help patients to the bathroom.

Dr. Lister says government-imposed targets have instilled a commercial culture, resulting in "perverse" imperatives like cost-control and "productivity" driving decisionmaking in hospitals. "It's the burger-bar style of efficiency – the more you can do with fewer staff the better," he says. "But patient safety seems to come at the bottom of the list.... The Hippocratic oath has gone out of the window."

www.csmonitor.com...

So let's see, overcrowding, safety lapses, cost-cutting, overworked nurses....yep sounds like all the stuff people are saying will happen under RationCare.

SHOCKING!!!!

Until you realise that the US has close to 11,000 MRSA deaths YEARLY.

wwwnc.cdc.gov...

Maybe you should ACTUALLY do some research, huh?

www.cddep.org...

Hey look, America is one of the WORST places for MRSA.

Almost TWICE as bad as France.

www.cddep.org...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Well, it is a true story, and the point is that Universal health care in France does not trump care in the US. How hard is it to understand that point?

By the way, from your source:

The WHO rankings have been subject to much criticism concerning their methodology, scientificity, and usefulness. Dr Philip Musgrove wrote that the rankings are meaningless because they oversimplify: "numbers confer a spurious precision".[3]
Journalist John Stossel notes that the use of life expectancy figures is misleading and the life expectancy in the United States is held down by homicides, accidents, poor diet, and lack of exercise. When controlled for these facts, Stossel claims that American life expectancy is actually one of the highest in the world.[4] A publication by the Pacific Research Institute in 2006 claims to have found that Americans outlive people in every other Western country, when controlled for homicides and car accidents.[5] Stossel also criticizes the ranking for favoring socialized healthcare, noting that "a country with high-quality care overall but 'unequal distribution' would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution."[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

But nice try buddy.

edit on 17-10-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

There's lots of surveys and they all find the same thing:

U.S. scores dead last again in healthcare study

(Reuters) - Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system, according to a report released on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com...

More:

blogs.ngm.com...

25 seperate healthcare rankings here:

mphdegree.org...

Not a single one says the US is the best...

bu-bu-but sure... some lady in France, I know I know...

reply to post by longlostbrother


Not "some lady in France", but an American co-worker who visited France and had to have her leg re-broken to reset it properly.

You just don't want to hear that all the socialists in the UN and around the world want to promote this bs because it is their agenda.

MPH looks like just a blog promoting WHO cra&*

Sorry, doesn't do it for me.

And it's separate, not seperate.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Not "some lady in France", but an American co-worker who visited France and had to have her leg re-broken to reset it properly.

You just don't want to hear that all the socialists in the UN and around the world want to promote this bs because it is their agenda.

No, I don't want to hear it, because one person is not a useful sample set, because all the statistics show you're wrong and because I've ACTUALLY lived in multiple countries and used their healthcare, so I know the ACTUAL facts are true, and a lot more meaningful than what happened to some lady you know.

I don't know if this will happen or not. I think many fear this is where Obama care is headed. Here is why. I had to change the doctor my girls see, since they also refused to take the medical government gives to those who can’t afford it.

I have a Thyroid condition. I'm supposed to see the doctor every 6 months, and take a prescription every day. I haven’t been to a doctor in a year now. The clinic my regular doctor was a part of changed their policy so that they required everyone to make a $50 payment. Before the doctor had me paying what I could each visit.

The only place left for me to go was a free care clinic where I had to pay $25 to see one of their doctors each visit. The care there vs. the care from the doctor whom I use to see was like night and day.

The doctor’s at the free care center didn’t have the equipment to do what they needed to do. The doctor admitted to me that she was practically fresh out of school so to speak. She had her own basic equipment, since she didn’t think they would be able to find what she would need at the clinic. She didn’t want to scramble from room to room to find what was needed.

The scales may or may not work. I had to point out to her that the scale didn’t work, because I didn’t weigh 250 pounds. She didn’t notice until I pointed it out that it didn’t move. She had to find another scale in another room, which got near the weight I actually was.

I had some major wax in my ear that was causing it to hurt. She tried to flush it out, which didn’t work. Then she went around and finally found in the children’s room a devise to scoop the wax out of the ear, which really didn’t work either. Later on at the store when I was looking for the suggested ear wax remover, I saw the same thing on the store shelf in one product that she tried to use. Then I decided to fork out the money for the doctor I usually see. He brought out what looked like a long surgical tool with a little scoop on the end to get the wax out. He got most of it out.

Due to the lack of equipment, I never went back to the free clinic to see the doctors there. The lack of experience with her being there on her own didn’t put a whole lot of confidence in me. Also, the fact that they have different doctors in on different days, meant I might not be able to see the same doctor each time. I couldn’t afford the doctor I usually see, so I just haven’t been back to a doctor in over a year.

I think that many people feel that Obama care will somehow change healthcare so that they will feel like they are going to a free care clinic instead of a regular doctor’s office. Their regular doctor will not accept the insurance they will probably be forced to get under Obama care. Many have talked about long wait times, and not enough doctors. I guess I can really see a lack of doctors, if most doctors refuse the lowest insurance and governmental insurance.

I know medical is the issue here, but what is even worse than the medical is the lack of dental. I can go to the hospital if I have a medical emergency. There is no where I can go if I have a dental emergency. The free clinic did have a dental office, where I did get some work done. It came down to needing either a root canal, or pulling a wisdom tooth. The free clinic wouldn’t touch the tooth. I ended up having to wait until I had enough money to get it pulled.

Everyone seems to leave out the dental. I personally think dental should be a part of medical.

Everything needs to be overhauled.

reply to post by Mystery_Lady


I think Americans, and I say this as an American that's gotten healthcare in multiple European countries, would be extremely pissed at how crap their healthcare actually is, if they visited other countries.

The French healthcare system covers 99% of people and has an 81% approval rate.

The Norwegian system has better care, costs everyone less, and people live longer and are healthier.

Better for less.

That's what socialised medicine REALLY means.

Every system has horror stories, but don't believe the propaganda shoved down your throat by healthcare lobbyists. America deserves to have healthcare that's as good as France's or England's or Germany's - yes?