reply to post by ManFromEurope
Ya I don't get what everyone is so afraid of. Canadian health care is social and it works fine. Pay your taxes and get free surgery. What's the
problem?
I have proof Obamacare will ruin healthcare in America, page 5
reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 11:11 PM by proximo
reply to post by grandmakdw
I just have to point out a couple things to you.
First just because you were covered by medicare and the cost was low, does not at all mean the overall average cost of care is low. There is insane cost shifting going on, where yes medicare costs are low and are mandated that way by law, but the hospitals simply move your costs onto to other patients who have regular insurance or are uninsured.
What you need to be looking at is medical spending to GDP, and if you look at that the US medical system is nearly twice as expensive as any other medical system of any other advanced country. There are many reasons for that - first and the easiest to fix is the drug cost where we pay far more than any other nation, second is legal malpractice, third is college expense for doctors and fourth is well simply we pay for procedures that just don't get done in other advanced countries.
Obamacare is going to make the costs go even higher as it does Nothing to reduce costs and instead increases bureaucracy and forces everyone to get coverage whether they want it or not.
I just have to point out a couple things to you.
First just because you were covered by medicare and the cost was low, does not at all mean the overall average cost of care is low. There is insane cost shifting going on, where yes medicare costs are low and are mandated that way by law, but the hospitals simply move your costs onto to other patients who have regular insurance or are uninsured.
What you need to be looking at is medical spending to GDP, and if you look at that the US medical system is nearly twice as expensive as any other medical system of any other advanced country. There are many reasons for that - first and the easiest to fix is the drug cost where we pay far more than any other nation, second is legal malpractice, third is college expense for doctors and fourth is well simply we pay for procedures that just don't get done in other advanced countries.
Obamacare is going to make the costs go even higher as it does Nothing to reduce costs and instead increases bureaucracy and forces everyone to get coverage whether they want it or not.
reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 11:18 PM by sligtlyskeptical
Originally posted by chiefsmom
reply to post by 3chainz
I don't know about the info in the OP, as I have never been in the military.
What I can give you are facts, directly from our company accountant. Could you please explain to me why she would not have the facts, as it is her business to know this???????
1) If our company continues to pay for our healthcare, as they do now, not only will they not be able to write it off at the end of the year, they will be penalized.
2) Workers Comp cost will double, if not triple, due to the fact that an injury you incurred at work, which was paid for at the time, will have to have double or more money put away that was paid. This is because all injuries will have to be reported to medicare, so that when you are retired, if any re-injury happens, medicare will not pay, workers comp will have to pay again.
So, what happens when a company has more than one workers comp claim? Their rates go up or they are dropped. Can a business function without workers comp?
Your company is either offering over the top health care benefits or a crappy health care plan. Those are the ones that that might have issues.
As for the workers comp - Why should anyone else other than the employer pay for the furture cost of a work related industry. Do you think people are jsut meat?
reply posted on 17-10-2012 @ 12:03 AM by grandmakdw
reply to post by reeferman
If you read all my posts you would see that Tricare is NOT good. It pays providers so poorly that the best (even just the good) doctors in town won't take tricare patients and the hospital tried its best not to admit me until I was at death's door. I don't blame them because the government insurance pays so poorly that it actually costs the hospitals and doctors money out of their pockets to treat tricare patients. When most americans are on a government plan then the quality of healthcare will plummet because the money won't be there for quality healthcare. The amount billed by the hospital was reasonable considering the level of care I received, $1000 per day and they were paid by tricare less than a cheap hotel gets per day on average, and the hospital was not allowed to bill me for the rest, which is good for me, but means it cost the hospital money to treat me. That can not be sustained if most of the country is going to follow suit.
If you read all my posts you would see that Tricare is NOT good. It pays providers so poorly that the best (even just the good) doctors in town won't take tricare patients and the hospital tried its best not to admit me until I was at death's door. I don't blame them because the government insurance pays so poorly that it actually costs the hospitals and doctors money out of their pockets to treat tricare patients. When most americans are on a government plan then the quality of healthcare will plummet because the money won't be there for quality healthcare. The amount billed by the hospital was reasonable considering the level of care I received, $1000 per day and they were paid by tricare less than a cheap hotel gets per day on average, and the hospital was not allowed to bill me for the rest, which is good for me, but means it cost the hospital money to treat me. That can not be sustained if most of the country is going to follow suit.
reply posted on 17-10-2012 @ 12:10 AM by votan
reply to post by grandmakdw
There are plenty of malpractice suits and horror stories here in the USA not just exclusively to the UK.
As for doctor pay and their education bills... well why does education cost so much?? ANd do not give me this crap that you get what you pay for because that is just as excuse to over price things.
I think under a socialized healthcare system you would have to rework many other things for it to work.
There are plenty of malpractice suits and horror stories here in the USA not just exclusively to the UK.
As for doctor pay and their education bills... well why does education cost so much?? ANd do not give me this crap that you get what you pay for because that is just as excuse to over price things.
I think under a socialized healthcare system you would have to rework many other things for it to work.
reply posted on 17-10-2012 @ 02:09 AM by ArJunaBug
reply to post by HostileApostle
I am an American. I lived in the UK for two years in the mid-1990's at which time my wife became pregnant and we had our first son. The entire pregnancy went through the UK's medical system, but I had top notch supplemental insurance on top of the basic coverage.
I will make this short. The people we dealt with from the local GP to the midwives were great. Up until the actual birth we had no complaints. Then in the hospital we found there was not really a specialist who dealt with the epidurals or pain management. The person that finally did the procedure ended up screwing it up which wasn't realized until my wife was sitting up crying in pain. I finally asked the nurse if she should be able to sit up if she had the epidural, to which she replied "oh, I guess not." Then when she checked the epidural was just resting on the bed and had not been inserted correctly.
Then 12 hours later when the doctor finally arrived at the last minute he declared that my son was coming out breach, which means his butt is coming out first. Now I had been keeping tabs on my sons progress in the womb and I knew he was not in a breach position. I did this by simply feeling my wife's stomach and having some basic knowledge of anatomy. I argued with the doctor, saying he was wrong about the breach position so he decides to reach in and feel around. He again declared that he was toughing my sons butt and was in fact breach. I argued vehemently that I was sure he was wrong, I was certain of this. So he called for a sonogram machine. This took them much too long to find and the first one was not working. Finally he gets a working machine and low and behold he is coming out head first, but is face up. He was nowhere even close to breach. My faith in the doctor is declining.
I won't go into the ugly details, but what followed was horrific to watch. This doctor was in there with forceps and yanking so hard the entire bed was sliding back and forth across the floor. I thought he was going to rip my son's head off. When my son was born he was bruised so badly I thought he was dead or dying.
I felt we could have had better medical care in a third world country, and I had incredibly good supplemental insurance.
A few months later I got into an argument with the GP or primary care doctor asking him why he felt my son should receive vaccinations. After an emotional outburst about herd immunity he finally admitted he had no good argument for getting the vaccine, but that he got a £5,000 ($8,000 US) annual bonus if he vaccinated 94% of the children in his surgery (practice).
Do I want that brand of medicine to come to the USA? No way!
I am an American. I lived in the UK for two years in the mid-1990's at which time my wife became pregnant and we had our first son. The entire pregnancy went through the UK's medical system, but I had top notch supplemental insurance on top of the basic coverage.
I will make this short. The people we dealt with from the local GP to the midwives were great. Up until the actual birth we had no complaints. Then in the hospital we found there was not really a specialist who dealt with the epidurals or pain management. The person that finally did the procedure ended up screwing it up which wasn't realized until my wife was sitting up crying in pain. I finally asked the nurse if she should be able to sit up if she had the epidural, to which she replied "oh, I guess not." Then when she checked the epidural was just resting on the bed and had not been inserted correctly.
Then 12 hours later when the doctor finally arrived at the last minute he declared that my son was coming out breach, which means his butt is coming out first. Now I had been keeping tabs on my sons progress in the womb and I knew he was not in a breach position. I did this by simply feeling my wife's stomach and having some basic knowledge of anatomy. I argued with the doctor, saying he was wrong about the breach position so he decides to reach in and feel around. He again declared that he was toughing my sons butt and was in fact breach. I argued vehemently that I was sure he was wrong, I was certain of this. So he called for a sonogram machine. This took them much too long to find and the first one was not working. Finally he gets a working machine and low and behold he is coming out head first, but is face up. He was nowhere even close to breach. My faith in the doctor is declining.
I won't go into the ugly details, but what followed was horrific to watch. This doctor was in there with forceps and yanking so hard the entire bed was sliding back and forth across the floor. I thought he was going to rip my son's head off. When my son was born he was bruised so badly I thought he was dead or dying.
I felt we could have had better medical care in a third world country, and I had incredibly good supplemental insurance.
A few months later I got into an argument with the GP or primary care doctor asking him why he felt my son should receive vaccinations. After an emotional outburst about herd immunity he finally admitted he had no good argument for getting the vaccine, but that he got a £5,000 ($8,000 US) annual bonus if he vaccinated 94% of the children in his surgery (practice).
Do I want that brand of medicine to come to the USA? No way!
edit on 17-10-2012 by ArJunaBug because: typo
reply posted on 17-10-2012 @ 04:43 AM by longlostbrother
reply to post by grandmakdw
Have you ever actually been to the UK and used their healthcare?
Do you know that lots of doctors, like orthopaedic surgeons, for example, average over 400K a year in the US? Hardly pocket change.
Do you think that maybe the issue has more to do with the cost of education in the US (which is ludicrous), than with the "small" salaries doctors make.
Your thread has no proof of anything, except that you're good at regurgitating right-wing talking points.
Have you ever actually been to the UK and used their healthcare?
Do you know that lots of doctors, like orthopaedic surgeons, for example, average over 400K a year in the US? Hardly pocket change.
Do you think that maybe the issue has more to do with the cost of education in the US (which is ludicrous), than with the "small" salaries doctors make.
Your thread has no proof of anything, except that you're good at regurgitating right-wing talking points.
reply posted on 17-10-2012 @ 05:37 AM by longlostbrother
Total cost to my family for the birth of two kids (one in Ireland, one in England): 0
Total cost of a childbirth in the US: $8000+
pregnancy.about.com...
Ah yes, but the US must be the best place to give birth??
Not close:
www.medicalbillingandcoding.org...
Most of the top 10 countries are European, aside from Japan and Australia. The US is 31st.
31st.
Add to that the huge and growing number of health problems the US has and let's just say, unless I was a multi-millionaire, I wouldn't choose to get sick in the US (I'm an American living abroad).
I have lived in multiple healthcare systems and the US is NOT the best, by far. And it's ludicrously expensive.
Total cost of a childbirth in the US: $8000+
pregnancy.about.com...
Ah yes, but the US must be the best place to give birth??
Not close:
www.medicalbillingandcoding.org...
Most of the top 10 countries are European, aside from Japan and Australia. The US is 31st.
31st.
Add to that the huge and growing number of health problems the US has and let's just say, unless I was a multi-millionaire, I wouldn't choose to get sick in the US (I'm an American living abroad).
I have lived in multiple healthcare systems and the US is NOT the best, by far. And it's ludicrously expensive.
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