I have proof Obamacare will ruin healthcare in America

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posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by HostileApostle
 

In Obamacare, there IS a provision for a panel to decide on how to "ration" healthcare.

They will decide if someone over a certain age should or should not receive a lifesaving treatment. That edict will apply to everyone on government insurance regardless of general health or mental status.

Obama himself said it is better to let an old person die with pain meds than to get expensive treatment that might let them live a few more healthy years. He said this on the campaign trail in 2008, and you bet it will be policy in Obamacare.


You have proof? Links to the actual documents? Video of Obama saying this?




posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by Jeremiah65
 

I agree. If we are to move to socialized medicine, we need to make medical school free, and keep the standards for admission as high as they are now. Otherwise, standards will have to fall because the best and brightest will see that being a Doctor, while noble, will mean extreme hours for mediocre pay.

We also desperately need tort reform.

I know of at least one Doctor who decided it was more cost effective for her to be a stay at home mom rather than have her own practice. She tried it and by the time she paid on her debt, paid her RN, and billing person, and receptionist, and rent and malpractice and day care - she was in the red. So she closed her practice and stays home while her husband works and supports them.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


yes there is a video

I don't have time to hunt it up, have to run, have to be somewhere 5 min ago.

Google the woman who had the 100 Year old mother who needed surgery and the 2008 Obama campaign. I'm sure you'll find it on you tube.

As for the health plan. What do you think the people who can't get private insurance will be doing? They will be forced to by government sponsored healthcare.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by 3chainz
 


I don't know about the info in the OP, as I have never been in the military.
What I can give you are facts, directly from our company accountant. Could you please explain to me why she would not have the facts, as it is her business to know this???????

1) If our company continues to pay for our healthcare, as they do now, not only will they not be able to write it off at the end of the year, they will be penalized.

2) Workers Comp cost will double, if not triple, due to the fact that an injury you incurred at work, which was paid for at the time, will have to have double or more money put away that was paid. This is because all injuries will have to be reported to medicare, so that when you are retired, if any re-injury happens, medicare will not pay, workers comp will have to pay again.

So, what happens when a company has more than one workers comp claim? Their rates go up or they are dropped. Can a business function without workers comp?



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by Jeremiah65
 

I agree. If we are to move to socialized medicine, we need to make medical school free, and keep the standards for admission as high as they are now. Otherwise, standards will have to fall because the best and brightest will see that being a Doctor, while noble, will mean extreme hours for mediocre pay.



Yes, with tax rates like in Sweden, all higher education and healthcare is paid for -- for everyone. Mention higher taxes to conservatives in America, and you would think it was the most evil thing in the world.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by 3chainz
 

You are wrong!

It has a great deal to do with healthcare.

It will make it easier for companies to drop their private insurance and pay the penalty than to cover their employees in plans that have to get more expensive to pay for the likes of me. That is already what a lot of companies are doing.

I think your comments on this thread really hit it pretty close to dead on. I found this here recently and thought I'd add it for consideration. Every time I think I know what this is going to bring, I find something new we had to "pass it to read". Ugh...


The adverse selection death spiral

The problem, as PwC points out, is that the individual mandate is too weak. “While the new market rules [regarding pre-existing conditions] are implemented in full in [2014], the individual coverage requirement is…phased in gradually.”

The fine for not purchasing health insurance under PPACA is $95 per person in 2014 (or 1% of taxable income, whichever is greater), $325 in 2015 (or 2%), and $695 in 2016 (or 2.5%). Thereafter, the mandate is indexed to inflation.

In addition, many people are exempted from the mandate, such as those for whom premiums exceed 8 percent of household income. Hence, as premiums increase, more and more people will be exempted from the mandate.

The size of the mandate’s penalty is puny in comparison to the cost of health insurance. According to the government’s Medical Expenditure Panel Survey (MEPS), the average premium for an individual plan in 2010 was $4,940. If we assume that premiums increase by 6 percent a year—the historical rate—the maximum $695 mandate will account for only 10 percent of average premiums.
Source - Forbes

A Wiki kind of explanation for the same term

I can also add a personal note, unfortunately. My Mom recently has dealt with complications from diabetes coupled with something a few years shy of Medicare age qualification. Well, keeping it very short, part of what she had done recently was a partial amputation of a foot. Very necessary and over $50,000. She got a choice for all intents and purposes. She could try and pay it herself as she and my step dad have always done (he's self employed with a sole proprietor business) If she chose that route, they'd be demanding a couple thousand a month.

or..

She could voluntarily enroll in the 'handy dandy' new health care coverage now offered as a stop gap by Uncle before the fimplementation of the full package. Bottom line? $600 a month. Her Social sec that she paid her entire life into ...is under $600 a month. One cancelled out the other PLUS some and that is one hell of a choice. Live like a peasant and at least live.....or try and enjoy the golden years just a BIT...until infection becomes lethal.

I don't know what the answer is. I honestly don't. It's absolutely NOT political and going back? Can't happen. Too much of the system has already changed. There is no "back" to return to. So.. Now what? All options are brutal to people in their 60's like my Mother and millions of 'Baby Boomers' like her.


Another fine mess....I swear.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by chiefsmom
 


Or your employer might just do what some other companies are already testing NOW- cutting employees hours down to under 30 hours per week. An employee who works under 30 hours per week is considered a "part-time" employee, and therefore the rules of "ObamaCare" do not apply:

Companies cut hours and jobs to dodge Obamacare



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by grandmakdw
reply to post by ManFromEurope
 

I'm glad your daughter is ok, that is wonderful.

However, what I saw of the German system when I lived there was long waiting lines and long waits if you had anything serious. I heard my German neighbors complain if there were a serious illness for older people.

I even came to the perverse conclusion that the government doesn't discourage the rampant smoking and over drinking because it kills people at a younger age. Taking care of end of life terrific expenses at an earlier age costs less than years and years of pensions and then paying for end of life high expenses. I came to that conclusion because the government doesn't seem to discourage bad physical habits, (fatty fried foods, chain smoking, alcohol costing less per ml than water) I nearly choked to death every time I went out in public with the cloud of second hand smoke.

By the way, nonetheless, I LOVED my years in Germany and miss a great deal about it. It may not sound like it, but I really did love my years there. Choooooooosssseeee


Now, I don't know the year you might have been here, but let me assure you that there are a lot of harsher laws in action, especially concerning smoking or drinking. Of course we still have the Oktoberfest... But that is more of a tourist-enterprise, not for the local folks. Okay, maybe the youth still likes to drink a lot.

Anyway.
Long waiting lines? Well, that is at least a subjective point of view. What qualifies as "long waiting"? I usually wait at my doctor for 15 to 45 minutes (general practitioner), my daughter had to wait about 2 weeks for her surgery.

Yes, there is some kind of class-system. We do have the general health care and the privately paid health care - guess which is more expensive, but gets better treatment.. It is a well-known issue, politicians are working for years to find a solution - although I guess they are not in a real hurry as most of them qualify for the privately paid health care by earning enough.

It's working.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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The fight is simple:

Do you want a insurance company between you and your doctor
or...

Actually, thats it. Thats the entire obamacare premise. The only big change is, if you have a history of getting sick, a insurance company cannot kick you off because they don't wanna pay.

So ya...not very scary.

But meh, facts..why use those.

I =wish= there was a universal healthcare move...but the corporatists won. The new corporate morons are now saying healthcare should be only for healthy people of means..so, ya..if the argument is that healthcare should be just for the rich and healthy, then I say go to hell.

Funny thing is, the people supporting that mindset, pretend to be religious. I may be agnostic-atheist, but I know when I see blood sacrificing demon worshippers.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by grandmakdw
 



My insurance is the military health insurance which pays the same as medicare, and will be merged with Obamacare, and will be what Obamacare will pay once it is in full force.


This is false.

There is no such thing as a type of insurance that will be called "Obamacare". That is the nickname the entire legislation was given. There is no new government sponsored insurance plan that is in it.


That's why the horror stories out of England, who has had for
years "Obamacare".


Once again, this is false.

The UK has nothing like "Obamacare". There system is actually much better.


For those of you who are for it, wait until you are on death's door under it and are left to rot in a bed, or even denied care because you have aged out of being eligible for a life saving procedure, given pain pills and sent home to die. Yes, that is in Obamacare.


This is a lie started by the brain whiz Sara Palin.


In short, your entire post is full of mis-information and outright lies.
Dude everyone knows Obamcare is not the real name of the health care plan.It is not fixing a thing with the health care system.The more taxes the more money you lose the worse it will get.Called common sense,the more burden your put on your house bills and payments and money you lose from demanding insurance and taxes the worse everyone will be period.

The cost of living also goes up and up and up and up and like the EU they demand you pay more more more and more until everyoneand the entire country is bankrupted.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by chiefsmom
 


Tell me about it. The company that I work for announced a while back that they will be increasing the healthcare costs for those who ride motorcycles.

Another company I used to work for not only did the same but also penalizes smokers currently employed and refuses to hire those who do smoke. They recently had a banner declaring themselves to be a nicotine free workplace.

To be truthful…I see the point of living a healthier lifestyle as hiring people who take risky decisions can be costly.

But at the same time, I don’t think that a company should be in the healthcare business, except at work. If you are injured at work and it is no fault of your own, then yes, the company should ante up. But if you break your leg while sky-diving, then it’s on you.

The problem as I see it, is that a lot of health insurance does not cross state boundaries. It should (some do) as that would encourage competition and drive prices down.

If I'm wrong, feel free to educate me as I will admit I am not a know-it-all.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by littled16
 


That's where we are lucky, and I'm not gonna lie, spoiled.
Our company doesn't put it's bottom line before it's employees. There are only 12 of us, including the owners.
Which is why the owners have been looking into this so hard. We are a family and because they treat us the way they do, we go out of our way for them. 90% of us have been here 10 years or more.

The more questions they have me ask, the more worried I become when I get the answers.
I don't know what the answers are for everyone, but I do know that the employees here need this job and can't afford for the company to go under.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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There should be 2 taxes State and government income tax.The fees and all the insruance crap is all giant lies to steal your money.Insurance can be good if you want it.Should never be forced to have insurance in the first place.The control addicts in politics are bankrupting us all including themselves and they still think they are correct.They become insane in the head with no common sense with money.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Well that is messed up, about the motorcycles! (We ride)
Our healthcare doesn't even ask that. That is why we have Motorcycle insurance, though our car insurance. (and you can pay more for that, if you ride without a helmet.

Our healthcare provider didn't even ask about who smokes or not either.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Jobeycool
Called common sense,the more burden your put on your house bills and payments and money you lose from demandin insurance and taxes the worse everyone will be period.


You know whats a big burden on familys? a unexpected hospital bill.

Who schedules in accidents, sicknesses, etc? You know anyone whom has penned in on their calender a car accident or a sudden bout with heart disease?

And so people go to the hospital when they have these issues...isurance or not.
And then they get treated either way...leave the hospital, and more often than not, stiff the hospital, simply pay like a dollar a month.

The hospital then gets help from tax dollars at the moment to pay the bills. And people then bark that we can't have taxes go up.

We already have universal health care in the most expensive way possible...obamacare/romneycare is a step at trying to move it to a cheaper and more economical payment method.


Do you favor for the current system (aka, poorly run universal healthcare)? Why?



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Called common sense,the more burden your put on your house bills and payments and money you lose from demandin insurance and taxes the worse everyone will be period.


You know whats a big burden on familys? a unexpected hospital bill.

Who schedules in accidents, sicknesses, etc? You know anyone whom has penned in on their calender a car accident or a sudden bout with heart disease?

And so people go to the hospital when they have these issues...isurance or not.
And then they get treated either way...leave the hospital, and more often than not, stiff the hospital, simply pay like a dollar a month.

The hospital then gets help from tax dollars at the moment to pay the bills. And people then bark that we can't have taxes go up.

We already have universal health care in the most expensive way possible...obamacare/romneycare is a step at trying to move it to a cheaper and more economical payment method.


Do you favor for the current system (aka, poorly run universal healthcare)? Why?
Health care system is far to expensive and slow and lacks common sense as well.It still is not affordable even if you tax more rich people.Health care is one thing that should have to be provided by every bsuiness and benefits.They cannot afford them anymore with the demand of the cost of living and taxes.I do think it is absurd and ridiculous that business can get away with not giving everyone benefits.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)


This is one area because of the crazy crazy amounts of money the government needs to slam its fist down hard to get people health care they should get and benefits.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex
They recently had a banner declaring themselves to be a nicotine free workplace.


Thats a dumb statement. Do they have patch checking right before work?
Nicotine isn't that bad for you..not really..about as bad as caffine. The electronic ciggies are becoming big now, and many smokers are switching or hybrid'ing over to that, and again, its about as unhealthy for you as drinking a soda or cup of coffee.

They should swap out the banner to replace nicotine to tobacco...or someone should also suggest they ban caffine also considering its pretty much equal.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Jobeycool
Health care system is far to expensive and slow and lacks common sense as well.It still is not affordable even if you tax more rich people.Health care is one thing that should have to be provided by every bsuiness and benfits.They cannot afford them anymore with the demand of th cost of living and taxes.


Actually, I fully disagree. Healthcare should be removed completely from business's. If you get hurt on the job, you can lose your job, and healthcare at the same time. But thats a different debate all together.

The cost of living and taxes thing makes no sense. Businesses have the lowest tax rate since the 50s, and corporations are having outstanding profit years. This is greed going on here..your sort of shoving tons of random things here that have nothing to do with taxes..its like right wing talking point jumble.

This (Obamacare) is about insurance companies..aka, you buying insurance from insurance companies if your not covered by work..everyone required to have some form of insurance (like car insurance). If you cannot afford it, then you will get a progressive voucher to make up for the difference. If your poor, it will be pretty much free. If your middle class, you will pay a little bit, and if your rich, you will pay full price...
However, new rules against insurance company means the insurance company cannot gouge anyone anymore. walmart philosophy...less profit per person, but more people, so it equals out.

You really should stop doing the talking points, and finding the most fringe right wing nutjob websites and actually investigate the simple points of what was proposed.
If you, on ideological principle, cannot read anything that doesn't use terms like socialist or anything, then just understand this.
This obamacare plan is the 1990s GOP healthcare plan. this was what the party of Bush was wanting...so, voila..its a right wing, GOP based healthcare plan. There..now suddenly its not socialist.and you can do a proper study of it verses simply vomit any and all limbaugh phrases when hearing of it.

Liberals wanted a universal healthcare system..instead, we got this right wing trash called obamacare/romneycare/gopcare



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by TDawgRex
They recently had a banner declaring themselves to be a nicotine free workplace.


Thats a dumb statement. Do they have patch checking right before work?
Nicotine isn't that bad for you..not really..about as bad as caffine. The electronic ciggies are becoming big now, and many smokers are switching or hybrid'ing over to that, and again, its about as unhealthy for you as drinking a soda or cup of coffee.

They should swap out the banner to replace nicotine to tobacco...or someone should also suggest they ban caffine also considering its pretty much equal.


I'm still friends with people that work there.

They conduct urinayalisis for nicotine.

I'm wondering now that you've mentioned it, can they fire the folk who are vaping? They're not nicotine free after all.

What's next? Owning cats causes schizophrenia? Ya gotta get rid of your cat?



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by TDawgRex
They recently had a banner declaring themselves to be a nicotine free workplace.


Thats a dumb statement. Do they have patch checking right before work?
Nicotine isn't that bad for you..not really..about as bad as caffine. The electronic ciggies are becoming big now, and many smokers are switching or hybrid'ing over to that, and again, its about as unhealthy for you as drinking a soda or cup of coffee.

They should swap out the banner to replace nicotine to tobacco...or someone should also suggest they ban caffine also considering its pretty much equal.


I'm still friends with people that work there.

They conduct urinayalisis for nicotine.

I'm wondering now that you've mentioned it, can they fire the folk who are vaping? They're not nicotine free after all.

What's next? Owning cats causes schizophrenia? Ya gotta get rid of your cat?


Lol...well, people can have massive allergic reactions to cat fur
Person owns a cat, plays with em, getting fur and dander on their clothes..goes to work
Yes, the logical thing to do is ban employees from owning pets.

Or I suppose a business could simply install some air filtration system. Use some of that rational thinking stuff.

I would hate to work for a company like that.





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