So how do you explain existence ?

Why does there have to be an explanation or a reason for our existence and the existence of the universe? It's like the child who jumps into the deep end before learning to splash in the kiddie pool. We're attempting to wade out further than our ability permits.

“The surface of the Earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. On this shore, we've learned most of what we know. Recently, we've waded a little way out, maybe ankle-deep, and the water seems inviting. Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.” - Carl Sagan

TextTo me it just makes sense that existence and consciousness come from something that exists and is conscious. It's that way in everything we see everyday.

reply to post by randyvs


My own belief as to why the people are so divided. I believe that most people cannot bring themselves to accept substance change. Most are caught in the mindset of the universe being the only existence while a Creationist has conditioned his or her mind to accept substance change outside of the universe. Being a Creationists breaks the code of understandable laws that science has taught this new culture and this is not tolerated by the science community.

The way I understand Christianity is to understand that there is a realm of conscious existence outside of this seemingly never ending universe which is infinite. This existence,outside of this universe, surrounds this universe with laws of behaviour which are not understood by our scientists and being not understood is therefore rejected.
The secular world demands obedience to their understanding of what the universe is proving to them. If it cannot prove their understanding through their physical substances then they close their minds to that model.

I have often wondered if the terrestrial universal laws have always been the same. Has the speed of light always been constant as we understand it to be today.? If this world is 15 billion years old, have the elements always been the same and in the same proportions that science uses today? If the answer is yes then how can this be proven? If the answer is no then also how can this be proven? It seems to me that out of 15 billion years we are not even in the same ball game as it was 15 billion years ago. Can we even fathom 15 billion years? .

This entire matter is mind boggling to say the least to even dare to imagine that all of this is a happening per chance. I find it more soothing to my mind to accept another conscious existence outside of the universe rather than being contained in this pot called a universe. I could never imagine my consciousness becoming non existent and my physical substance becoming a cow chip in a barnyard. If that is science then I have no interest in that science.

reply to post by ascension211


The question you think is like some little toy is an impossibility, because you are suggesting an infinite number of retro generations. That's impossible so there must be a causeless cause. God would be a causeless cause.

There's plenty of books written before the bible. Why do we as a collective dismiss these writings? Why do we give the bible the weight some do? Here's a quote from GeddyLee, Alex Lifeson & Neil Peart o fthe band Rush.

"Why are we here, because we're here, roll the bones". Why worry about how we got here, we're here. Let's make the best of the few years life gives us. Be good people, be good parents, do the right thing by all who you come in contact with. IMHO. we are an insignificant species, in the grand scheme of things.

Take your happy when and where you can get it. It;s fleeting in it's appearances. IMO we we're interfered with by an outside source. Whether other world or right here at home. We did not get to where we are by ourselves. Some thing or some one has interfered with our evolution.

reply to post by Seede


That was such an excellent reply.

This entire matter is mind boggling to say the least to even dare to imagine that all of this is a happening per chance. I find it more soothing to my mind to accept another conscious existence outside of the universe rather than being contained in this pot called a universe. I could never imagine my consciousness becoming non existent and my physical substance becoming a cow chip in a barnyard. If that is science then I have no interest in that science.

You minimized it with the word chance. The number of outlandish chances that must occur by itself can not be counted. This makes hitting a lottery seem like child's play. The chance of an infinite number of astronomical chances occurring is so absurd it can't even be fathomed. It makes the chances of there being a God look very tiny. The chances of a protein molecule forming on it's own looks like this 300/50. That's fifty with three hundred zeros behind it to !. Science itself considers 50/50 an absolute impossibility. So the chance that there is no higher intelligence than us. Is completely out of the question. It's looney.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

Why do we give the bible the weight some do?

Because HE REIGNS.



I wouldn't put to much on what Getty Lee has to say.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

Remember when one person believes a lie it is a delusion but when many people believe a lie it is a religion.

And if you believe God is a lie ? Then you believe the father of lies.

Originally posted by Seede
...This entire matter is mind boggling to say the least to even dare to imagine that all of this is a happening per chance. I find it more soothing to my mind to accept another conscious existence outside of the universe rather than being contained in this pot called a universe. I could never imagine my consciousness becoming non existent and my physical substance becoming a cow chip in a barnyard. If that is science then I have no interest in that science.
...

I guess we sometimes (or maybe most times) believe what we choose to believe.
It is just as mind boggling to even dare to imagine that all of this is happening...by design.
To choose the "by design" theory...one has to come up with just as many (or more) rules and explanations as the "per chance" theory.
The only certainty is - none of us (living humans) KNOW for sure. The nearest we can come to knowing...is to build our belief/s with layers and layers of facts (which might come from personal experience, rationalization, hearsay, etc...)...and then hope (if we are so inclined) that we are right.
I have stated the same as you, in the past - "I could never imagine my consciousness becoming non existent..." ... Now, though, I find that - I can.

reply to post by randyvs


After 2000 years you'd think there'd be just a tiny bit if evidence that a god exists but there is absolutely nothing. To the contrary science frequently makes discoveries proving that creation does not require a god.

Do you have any evidence? Also if there is a god who created him?

Funny how creationists in this thread stubbornly ignore the fact that they are filling a gap in knowledge with magic...god of the gaps, over and over and over and over again. And the worst part is, they try to sell their belief as fact even if there is ZERO objective evidence backing it up. Hell, in many cases like the global flood they are DEMONSTRABLY wrong.

Also, if those people would really read the bible instead of cherry picking certain passages they'd realise that even if god exists (again: zero evidence for that), he would be a pretty nasty being. I mean, some humans piss him off and he kills off every living being bar 2 of each kind?? Anger management anyone?

@Randy: Doesn't matter how often you repeat it, "because he reigns" isn't proof of anything...it only proves what you believe

reply to post by MrXYZ


Very good post, the truth seems so obvious to you and I.

It's a shame that it is human nature to hate admitting when we are wrong regardless of how much the weight of fact is against us.

It wouldn't be so bad if the indoctrinated didn't brainwash their children and carry on the whole mess that is religion for yet another generation.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

Also if there is a god who created him?

This question has been covered just a few posts above same page. The question isn't just redundant and mundane. It's now become ignorant. Read.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Seede gives a great example of the mind set you are imprisoned in. Incapable of thinking outside the box you've duct taped yourself into.

There's no chance that everything happened by chance friend. and I'm positive you see that. Tyson isn't the first intelligent person to be completely ignorant of the impossibilities he suggests is true. As if he knows it all. Get real X.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Seede gives a great example of the mind set you are imprisoned in. Incapable of thinking outside the box you've duct taped yourself into.

There's no chance that everything happened by chance friend. and I'm positive you see that. Tyson isn't the first intelligent person to be completely ignorant of the impossibilities he suggests is true. As if he knows it all. Get real X.

Thinking outside the box isn't "sticking to fixed beliefs"

I'm not sure if you're being ironic or not. Talking about having an open mind, ARE YOU KIDDING?

Scientists have an open mind an will examine the EVIDENCE. Their belief isn't fixed. Do you disagree with a certain theory? Fine, present evidence against it, objective (!!!) evidence. If you can't do that, you are merely PREACHING.

Scientists aren't even saying there is no god (or gods...can get confusing with all those disagreeing religions), all they are saying is "we have no evidence for one". And that's the TRUTH. If you disagree with it, present us with objective evidence. Just to be clear, saying "everything is possible, open your minds" isn't evidence, and quoting from a book written by MEN that only proves what they at the time (!!) believed in ISN'T OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE.

You are saying others don't have an open mind, but in reality it's you who has closed his mind. You stick to your fixed beliefs NO MATTER the amount of evidence disagreeing with you. Hell, you even admit that. That's the EXACT OPPOSITE of having an open mind.

Cliff notes:

Scientists = open minded
Randy = not open minded

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by GafferUK1981

 

Remember when one person believes a lie it is a delusion but when many people believe a lie it is a religion.

And if you believe God is a lie ? Then you believe the father of lies.

Then God is the Father of the Father of lies??

Isiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

reply to post by Seede


www.proofthatgodexists.org...

reply to post by MrXYZ

Scientists have an open mind an will examine the EVIDENCE. Their belief isn't fixed. Do you disagree with a certain theory? Fine, present evidence against it, objective (!!!) evidence. If you can't do that, you are merely PREACHING.

Who needs evidence when the odds are beyond measure of what you and people like you profess ?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Scientists have an open mind an will examine the EVIDENCE. Their belief isn't fixed. Do you disagree with a certain theory? Fine, present evidence against it, objective (!!!) evidence. If you can't do that, you are merely PREACHING.

Who needs evidence when the odds are beyond measure of what you and people like you profess ?

So basically you believe anything's possible...or at least whatever you cherry pick (because you obviously picked Christianity...if you were born in Tibet you'd be a Buddhist who doesn't believe in a god). And that's OK. But pretending your personal belief that isn't backed up by evidence is somehow a fact is laughable

reply to post by MrXYZ


I thank God I wasn't born in Tibet !

reply to post by randyvs


I do apologise, you have tried to answer the question but failed. Resorting to games if chance no more proves god than disproves evolution.

The earth is 4.5 billion years old not 6 to 10 thousand like the brainwashed believe. All that time with water, nutrients and the sun were all that were needed to start life. No god here.