So how do you explain existence ?

reply to post by SimonPeter


Barcs replied for me. Thanks Barcs.

Split Infinity

reply to post by BSFC123


Do you care to provide any evidence of a young earth because ALL credible evidence points to the old earth theory.

I can't believe you believe in creationism over the fact of evolution. Has the world gone mad?

Reason does NOT dictate that there is a creator, you're just not intelligent enough to comprehend the truth.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


I agree gaffer. If the religious delusionals want to be taken seriously it is time they provided something genuine and verifiable, rather than hiding behind psuedo science, spouting inanities/hot air based on wishful thinking and portraying opinion as if it were truth. There should be some genuine, detectable signs of the god/creator being as depicted in the bible. There are none,what we do know points to it being a crock of...... We were not created by this mythical god re the bible, if there is a universal creative intelligence (who knows ?), this isn't it. He inhabits the psyche of the indoctrinated, but cannot be found anywhere else. It is consistent with mythology.

Christ's very existence cannot be supported beyond personal belief. If he did exist he was obviously of so little consequence that no one of the time considered it necessary to write one single word about him, despite the fantastic and ridiculous claims in the bible. The bible is full of primitive lies and exaggerations and is not a genuine historical source. It is period fiction at best. Harry Potter for grown ups. For starters.....

No flood.
No slave race in Egypt.
No exodus.
No crossing the red sea.
No wandering the desert.

Didn't happen. People have looked, there should be signs, there are none. Even (honest) religion based archaeologists will admit this. Biblical credibility has long been shrinking in direct proportion to advance of science. RIP god (of fundamentalist Christianity).

This fellow makes some good points from both a scientific pov as well as general observation.

www.gspaulscienceofreligion.com...


"Not only can science easily detect the existence of a creator intelligence under a wide variety of circumstances, it can describe its basic characteristics"

Why hasn't it happened?

"If astronomy, geology and radiometric dating demonstrated that the universe and our planet were just a few thousand years old, and that a great flood had engulfed the planet, then the Bible Genesis account would be verified."

'nough said.

"Written by feudal tribal patriarchs rather than an ethical designer, the Biblical God of both Testaments is not moral because it causes, orders or approves of a host of immoral actions.....The Judeo-Christian scriptures are not able to provide a moral basis for individual or societal morality."

Very relevant, fundamentalist religion seems to have a very negative impact on societal health and morality, see the link in post below.

As to the thread title, it seems no one really knows (beyond opinion).

What we do know beyond opinion and therefore very relevant, is the level of societal ill health and dysfunction that comes hand in hand with religiosity (as shown in the link). It is also hard not to notice that in populations smitten with god and his love, they are usually also just as smitten with weapons and conflict (internal and or external). The US being a good case in point. Though a powerful first world nation with a well educated population, it lags the more secular first world nations massively (re societel health), apparently because if it's fundamentalism. In many ways it is the first world's version of Afghanistan.

www.epjournal.net...

reply to post by Barcs


How do you know anything about how old the earth is ? You read someones work ? With the very hot environment and many cataclysms and lack of seasons there is no telling how fast life cycled . The violent weather cycles and volcanoes would cause a lot of unknowns . We already know as fact that their are black holes because it is in the books now as theory but explained as fact . Have you ever seen a black hole ? Scientist make some pretty wild claims . Some have been found to be outright lies to get more grant money . The latest Nanobot scheme comes to mind .Filing down a hogs tooth to claim the finding of a prehistoric man possibly the missing link and a grand exhibition of his life , shelter and tools was embraced by the scientific society as a great find . Until one of the conspirators confessed to the sham . I keep hearing Carl Sagan remarks like Billions of years . For a bunch of people who have only been studying the earth for about a couple of hundred years they seem to make some outrageous claims . The Carbon dating is very poor and Potassium argon dating is about the same yet they can date back 500 million years . Unlikely , and not worth refuting .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Some scientific methods may be questionable but they are still far more credible then the genesis fairytale.

reply to post by SimonPeter


So in other words, science is wrong, while the bible is literal 100% fact. Gotcha. Let me know when you have any real evidence besides your baseless doubts of science and blind belief in a ancient story book. Science is based on experiments that can be repeated by others. It's not just wild guesses. Do you think they just made black holes up, for the heck of it? Read an Einstein book if you're really curious.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
With the very hot environment and many cataclysms and lack of seasons there is no telling how fast life cycled.

Lack of seasons? Are you trying to tell me that the earth was not rotating and revolving around the sun at one point in its history? Evidence?

Have you ever seen a black hole ?

Have you seen Jesus or God? You seem to have no trouble believing that.

The Carbon dating is very poor and Potassium argon dating is about the same yet they can date back 500 million years . Unlikely , and not worth refuting .

Flat out lie right here. The age of the earth is verified by many more methods of dating, including measuring sedimentary layers, formation of stalactites, plate tectonics, decay of isotopes, fossil layers and the fact that they are never mixed, and many many more things. What you are suggesting is that for some odd reason all of these things changed their rates of formation, suddenly at the same time, when most of them are not even related. How do you explain that?

reply to post by Barcs


Number one . The exact and even rate of decay of Radio Carbon 14 can only be extrapolated . We have only had 70 years of experience with radio active degradation .
The violent planetary formation that would have accelerated sediment formation s and with the heat could have accelerated life cycles . Plate tectonics would have been extremely active in laying down layers of sediment . Instead of thousands of years to thrust up a continent it may have happened in hours . Ice sheets that appear to indicate time shows major fluctuations in the amount of Carbon content of our atmosphere and thus corrupting the Carbon Dating . Yet scientist have used Carbon dating well beyond it's marginally effective 60,000 year range . Even the scientist who discovered it renounced it as unreliable .
I am not saying science is all wrong ,but there are a lot of stupid unproven claims . There may be a lot more in common with the Bible and science than you think . Elijah was taken off the earth by what was described as a fiery chariot long before science was a subject at your local school . The bible could not explain to man of that time anything like he could today . But still with all the theories and billions of years you can throw at the question , you can not today fathom the beginning of time and matter . Singularity ? Really !

reply to post by SimonPeter


The one thing you must remember is that when the bible was written man's understanding of science was miniscule. The bible like all religious books was written to provide answers to mans questions, they had no idea as to how the earth was created and had not observed evolution like we can today.

The thing is all the answers given in the bible are wrong, modern science continues to prove that and only the most ardent fingers in their ears whistling believers such as yourself try to ignore scientific fact as it doesn't fit with your ancient fairytale.

I know it hurts to know that you have wasted a huge portion of your life believing in a lie but that's the way it is. People should bin their religious doctrines and move on.

The only rebuttal the religious must come up with is evidence to back up their beliefs rather than trying to dismiss credible scientific evidence. Even if you were able to dismiss scientific evidence that still doesn't make your beliefs true. They also need evidence rather than this faith nonsense.

I look forward to you explaining how dinosaurs only existed a few thousand years ago and how the bible writers simply forgot to mention them.

EDIT: If your god existed what would he be if not a singularity, the only other answer is he was created.

It would be nice if you could source any of those claims above.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
The exact and even rate of decay of Radio Carbon 14 can only be extrapolated . We have only had 70 years of experience with radio active degradation .

Carbon 14 is not used to determine the age of the earth, and only has a 1% error margin.

The violent planetary formation that would have accelerated sediment formation s and with the heat could have accelerated life cycles .

Please explain these accelerated life cycles. Accelerated or not, the seasons still happened back then, they just weren't the same as today.

Plate tectonics would have been extremely active in laying down layers of sediment . Instead of thousands of years to thrust up a continent it may have happened in hours .

Do you have evidence of this or are you still just musing?

Ice sheets that appear to indicate time shows major fluctuations in the amount of Carbon content of our atmosphere and thus corrupting the Carbon Dating.

Please explain this in detail. Sources would be great.

Yet scientist have used Carbon dating well beyond it's marginally effective 60,000 year range .

They have? Could you please show evidence of this? Last I checked they used different radiometric dating techniques for things older than 60K.

Even the scientist who discovered it renounced it as unreliable .

Ha. I'm really interested in the quote mine you find for this one.

I am not saying science is all wrong ,but there are a lot of stupid unproven claims.

Name a single scientific theory that is based on stupid unproven claims.

Yes, science is as iffy as it gets.

Yet an imaginary Jewish zombie who was his own father and also impregnated his own mother, thus coming to earth so that he could be nailed to a cross.....thus allowing him to forgive us for the "mistake" of a woman he made out of a rib, being coerced into eating a piece of fruit by a talking snake. He exists because people communicate with him via telepathy.....

No hint of bs there.....

THIS IS SMOKING GUN: Welcome to the Matrix.
PAY ATTENTION TO HIS DESCRIPTION OF ERROR CORRECTING CODES!!!:

We are in a holographic universe, a computer simulation.

A list to play all the series of this concept. 9 videos. Scientific discoveries, not ravings of a mad man.

9 Videos On The Science of Our Simulated Reality

reply to post by GafferUK1981


All Life that Exists in our Universe is an Artificial Construct . Here's Why.............

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


Your video is shat out out Zanti.

reply to post by NJoyZ


I'm captivated. I'll watch them all.

reply to post by Barcs


Ok , i see your point . So tell me , what came First , the Chicken or the Egg ? ..........

reply to post by randyvs


Yeah , Damn , I betcha some Atheist Claimed Copywrite Infringment out of Fear of being shown as a Fraud ! ............LOL

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


Sucks to cause, I know you don't post without making a good point.

reply to post by randyvs


You know , just to maybe Finalize this Discussion , I got One More Question to ask all the ATS Members who Posted in this Great Thought Provoking Thread . If , in the Far Future , Mankind oneday Colonizes Space to such an extent that his Numbers reach into the Hundreds of Billions of People , each Unique in their own Personalities and Thought Processes , where oh where do they ALL Come From ? Nothingness , or were they Intelligently Designed by some " Force " of Nature which as of yet, has Not been Confirmed as a Fact by the Scientific Methods available to man today >>>>? ........







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