So how do you explain existence ?, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times

reply posted on 15-10-2012 @ 11:32 PM by randyvs

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

I can't believe I understood that perfectly. Except for the word elucidatory, I had to look that up to be sure.

But I did find that highly interesting.

reply posted on 15-10-2012 @ 11:43 PM by trysts

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by randyvs

But who are you to be the judge of that ? Why such an irresponsible statement coming from someone with far more intelligence than you've just expressed ?

I am rather new here, so excuse me. I am a little confused here, as the thread you pointed out in your opening post was about comments like this, no? To be honest, I thought your thread was about the other one you directed us to?

THEN, you go on about existence, but then bring up creation? Which one is it you are trying to get to the bottom of? You might as well be asking, "what came first? The chicken or the egg?"

It seems to me that you are struggling to defend something that you know in your heart is at the core of your own beliefs, so why would you care what other people think? Religion is just one of those things that people don't often change their minds on, no matter what.

So, what is it exactly you are looking for, besides further validation of something you are unwavering on anyway?

It's awfully hard not to take trolling when you are a troll yourself. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

This is your response ? Semantics, circular reasoning and " you are " ? Calling me a troll when all I've done is write a thread addressing a solid issue ? Just checking.

Lol. Solid issue?!?? Your OP is: Give me a better explanation of the beginning of the universe than Genesis. lol Genesis is a pathetic explanation of the beginning/universe/the origins of existence. Hubris + Humans = Silly. We can't know the Beginning, or if there even was a Beginning.
I agree completely with Sissel: What exactly are you looking for that you already feel you know? Is it "trolling"? If you believe in the Genesis story then why don't you keep it to yourself? You're very suspicious, Randyvs, just like many people here who play games with their own beliefs.

They are not very clever about it, yet they still are quite deceptive about it.

reply posted on 15-10-2012 @ 11:57 PM by randyvs

reply to post by trysts

They are not very clever about it, yet they still are quite deceptive about it

What is so deceptive about asking for a better explanation from those that ridicule,( or anyone else ) one that can't be proven untrue ?
You crack me up ?

BTW you just implied one need not be clever to deceive you.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 12:10 AM by trysts

Originally posted by randyvs

reply to post by trysts

They are not very clever about it, yet they still are quite deceptive about it

What is so deceptive about asking for a better explanation from those that ridicule,( or anyone else ) one that can't be proven untrue ?
You crack me up ?

BTW you just implied one need not be clever to deceive you.

Yes, my credit was ruined because I'm a sucker, but that's another story. lol

But clearly, a purple gorilla with super powers can't be proven untrue if those who support the existence of it are not held accountable in proving it. I can make up any idiotic story about the beginning of the universe, and ask everyone to disprove it. If they say, "We need to see the purple gorilla", I can simply say, "The wonderful, omniscient, purple gorilla(with superpowers) is all around you", or, "You have to have faith in the damn purple gorilla". You can't just say something exists without eyewitness testimony, meaning someone, someplace, has to actually have sense data of it's existence.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 12:22 AM by SinMaker

OP, you should ask the athiests. They seem to know everything about the cosmos. Even more so than scientists. How is it the athiests are an all knowing arrogant omnipotent bunch? Yea, they bother me just a little bit more than theists nowadays.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 12:35 AM by randyvs

reply to post by trysts

So you must have a better explanation than the one that says simply ? A higher existence and intelligence of power and glory that your simple mindedness won't allow you to understand is responsible ?

So what is it ?

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Sin

Atheists aren't excluded here partner. If your a member you can comment.

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 12:53 AM by trysts

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by trysts

So you must have a better explanation than the one that says simply ? A higher existence and intelligence of power and glory that your simple mindedness won't allow you to understand is responsible ?

So what is it ?
edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Sin

Atheists aren't excluded here partner. If your a member you can comment.
edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I like the theory of the great aardvark, but that's just me. lol If you and your friends believe in the great aardvark theory then I may either get a parish/place to live rent free, or funds for archaeological evidence to support the great aardvark theory.
Truly, you already know that nobody knows about the origins of the universe, randyvs, or at least I hope you do.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 01:32 AM by randyvs

reply to post by trysts

I like the theory of the great aardvark, but that's just me. lol If you and your friends believe in the great aardvark theory then I may either get a parish/place to live rent free, or funds for archaeological evidence to support the great aardvark theory. Truly, you already know that nobody knows about the origins of the universe, randyvs, or at least I hope you d

Alright I'll admit the aardvark is a little new to me. But if that's the best you can do I have to say it makes far less sense than anything I've heard previously. The topic being if you have something better ? as in makes better sense. k?

You say nobody knows. I don't believe that.

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 02:56 AM by YoungKenzie

I do believe the one thing this universe is doing is expanding. I have a feeling our entire experience is one of an expansion of consciousness. The awareness of it all. Think about it... the more you are aware the more creative and logical you can become simply by being aware...
Thanks
Peace

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 03:45 AM by semicolonsmile

I've been leaning towards the simulation theory, which is actually about to be tested by science.

Link

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 07:30 AM by mysterioustranger

Putting it simply..you have a live chicken and 1 egg next to each other. The chicken ALREADY exists...where as...the EGG may or may not become a chicken (could break etc).

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 07:49 AM by Pauligirl

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Pauligirl

The best explanation will be the truth. Do we have it yet? No.

But who are you to be the judge of that ? Why such an irresponsible statement coming from someone with far more intelligence than you've just expressed ?

May be one day. Until then, I'm fine with "I don't know" rather than settling for a a story .

But if the story is true that would make it his story wouldn't it ?
edit on 15-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Because it's a story with no proof. If you are comfortable stopping there, fine.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 08:07 AM by jiggerj

reply to post by randyvs

Why is it that so many conspire to ridicule the creation account given in Genesis, when they don't seem to have a better one of their own.

Pleased understand that my words on this flat screen do not reflect any type of harassment. I enjoy topics such as this, and I never attack anyone unless I am personally attacked first. However, I will claim that an idea can be downright stupid, but never the person coming up with the idea. We ALL have stupid ideas from time to time, and I am very grateful when people point out mine so that I don't live with these wrong thoughts throughout all of my life.

Now, let me point out that because people don't have a better idea on how the universe was created, this in no way validates the Genesis account of creation. Seeing as I don't know all the details of evolution, this doesn't validate, or invalidate, evolution either. I can say, however, that evolution makes somewhat more sense than the magic stirring of dust, and POOF! man was created. This premise is beyond ridiculous, just as the Genesis account is.

The biblical account of everything being created in 6 days is so far out there that, for atheists, it begs the question of, "Why are we even talking about this?" It's absurd. It's not true. It shouldn't be believable to anyone old enough to know that there's no such thing as magic.

I do have my own idea of how the universe was created, but I will not hesitate to admit that it is just my idea. The only thing I can claim is that it makes more sense to ME than the idea of a magical being or a Big Bang that started from nothing.

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 08:38 AM by randyvs

reply to post by jiggerj

Well come on Jigger ! You just made a post that pretty much says everything I said in the OP. And left me totally hang'in without describing your idea, that at least makes better sense to someone. That someone being you.
Let me try that jacket on damn it !

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 08:48 AM by randyvs

Originally posted by semicolonsmile
I've been leaning towards the simulation theory, which is actually about to be tested by science.

Link

Their going to test that one ? Don't get me wrong but how in the hell are they going to do that ? I imagine something molecular going on ? Science is a trip !

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Pauli

But proof doesn't dominate truth does it ?

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 09:10 AM by OmegaLogos

reply to post by randyvs

Explanation: S&F!

This simple ... Needs!

Necessity, who is the mother of invention.
Plato, The Republic
Greek author & philosopher in Athens (427 BC - 347 BC)

Personal Disclosure: OL notes the existence abhores a vaccume and there is the proof in the pudding!

Enjoy!

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 09:18 AM by Koros

Originally posted by randyvs

So that will be the premise here'in. Is this a conspiracy or do people of science or anyone else have any explanations for existence, that don't sound just as loony, as most of the trolls make the account given in Genesis sound ? To date, I haven't heard one. Evolution conveniently just doesn't go there. To me it just makes sense that existence and consciousness come from something that exists and is conscious. It's that way in everything we see everyday. And I don't believe we humans are the highest form of existence or any of the aliens either.

But if you have one ? I'd like to read it .

There is no conspiracy. It is simply due to the fact that the story in Genesis is preposterous. Let's see...God created the universe in six days (including making plants two days before the very sun that would feed them). He created a man. He then created a woman by taking a rib from the man and transmuting it in to a woman. He then told those two people to be fruitful and multiply. They ate an apple and were punished. They had two sons, one of whom kills the other and is banished from their mythical garden. The banished son then finds a wife.

Umm...wait....

Where did Cain's wife come from?

The question you should be asking isn't "can you provide a better alternative?" The question should be "can I back up Genesis as being any more than myth?"

edit on 10/16/2012 by Koros because: Typo

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 09:29 AM by MamaJ

I take an approach that pretty much relies on experience of times past. If you group all of the spiritual experiences together, like I do then you may get a feeling that they all tell a similiar story.

Genesis story of creation is often taken literal.... I don't take that approach though, its more of a spiritual creation that ended up being made manifest in the physical. 6 Days of creation begins pre-man, imo.

Im listening to this video again this morning... you may enjoy it.

YouTube Link

And then there is this one....

YouTube Link

edit on 16-10-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 09:50 AM by randyvs

reply to post by MamaJ

Why is it so hard for some to respond in a perfect manner such as yours.

Koros
Get a clue ? Why even respond if your going to change the whole thread like some dictator.

edit on 16-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-10-2012 @ 09:54 AM by rhinoceros

OP *snip*. He writes as if Genesis is just about the creation of the Universe. This is of course not true. In the Bible, there are two contradicting Genesis stories (Genesis 1:1-2:3 and Genesis 2:4-2:25), which include a lot more stuff than just the creation of the Universe. Although contemporary science doesn't know how the Universe came to be (the Big Bang theory starts from a singularity), the other stuff that the two Genesis accounts address, like how e.g. animals came to be, is crystal clear, and totally against the Genesis accounts. For example, women were not created from a frigging rib of a man, as told by Genesis Story #2

(note that in Genesis Story #1 man and woman are created simultaneously though).

edit on 16-10-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)