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So how do you explain existence ?

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posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 





You have just proved to me just how stupid you are, you subtracted 1981 from 2012 and came up with 40 when I am actually 31. How poor us your intelligence?


The forty years was used as a rough estimate. I didn't know anything about 1981 in regards to you.Til you posted it. Did you think we we're that close ?
edit on 31-10-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Given the amount of time we have been (billions of years), we are now the result of matter becoming organized based on the physical laws of the universe.

it's been a long journey of trial and error.... but here we are!



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


I would have thought my screen name was a dead giveaway.

Trust a Christian not to see what's right in front of their face.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 

If I remember right is John Frum a cargo cult messiah?


Yes, the cargo cults and in particular the John Frum variant, is an anthropologists dream. In less than 80 years or so we get to see a religion from it's genesis and to watch it evolve. It seems Frum almost certainly existed, encouraging the natives to break free of the oppressive christian missionaries and return to native lifestyle, also promising the trappings of western civilization ("cargo") would arrive (which it did shortly after - WW2). He has gone from this to full blown magical diety status (he now lives in their volcano apparently) with all manner of ritual and ceremony surrounding him, in this time.

When you consider the level of education and superstition (sorcery etc) amongst these Melanesian tribes in the '30s, it's not hard at all to see how similar traditions sprung up amongst illiterate and superstitious goat herders in Palestine a couple of thousand years ago.

Unlike christ though, it seems Frum almost certainly existed. Unlike any biblical prophet, Frum has given at least one true prophecy. I would urge all christians to take note, perhaps you are waiting for the wrong saviour? Frum seems to have a bit going for him, I'd say.




edit on 1-11-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Just very briefly, sure you've all heard it before. IMO.......

We (and our planet) are comprised mostly of "stardust" from supernovas. We know earth formed later due to gravity/accretion. A process that continues to this day.

Plants need the sun for photosynthesis to occur.

The theory of evolution explains the diversity of life on this planet. Evolution is a fact.

There was no world wide flood. I know of cultures that appear to have been continuous for around 50,000 years. I can and do visit these occupation sites. They were not wiped out.

The idea someone could fit pairs of hundreds of millions of different species in a wooden boat and repopulate the planet as per myth is simply not possible and too ridiculous to contemplate.

There was no Jewish slave race in Egypt.

There was no exodus.

There was no parting/crossing the red sea.

There was no wandering the desert.

There should be traces. There are none. People have looked, even people who believe the bible, yet found...nothing.

People do not survive for days inside fishes digestive systems.

People do not resurrect after three days.

Celestial and planetary motion does not simply stop, then resume again as if nothing happened. That would be a very bad thing.

People cannot walk on water, unless propelled in such a way that the laws of physics allow for (it's called water skiing).

We know how wine is manufactured, water doesn't magically turn into wine.

I doubt anyone knows how existence came about, or whether there is a god of some type. It isn't the god depicted in the savage, backward and superstitious book. Genesis is consistent with the rest of the book, cultural mythology. Regardless of the pseudo wisdom of the new testament, it is also a book dedicated to human sacrifice and perverse logic, there is no getting around that.

To say that people cannot come up with a better explanation for existence is to miss the point. Genesis is not an explanation to begin with. It is a book of mythology, not even a very good one. There are far better and more imaginative indigenous creation myths.



edit on 1-11-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 


What a refreshing change to see a post using evidence rather than a meaningless quote or an elaborate extract from scripture which proves nothing.

Keep up the good work.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by randyvs
 


I would have thought my screen name was a dead giveaway.

Trust a Christian not to see what's right in front of their face.


So everyone with four digits following their moniker is indicating their YOB and I'm a Christian cause I'm not a know it all and / or a psychic ? I imagine you just don't get out much.

The only thing that makes me a Christian? Is my love for my Father in Heaven and my faith in Jesus Christ, as I follow him ! Never denying that he is the one Son, sent by the most high, to redeem his children back unto himself. There by receiving the free gift of eternal life, as it were in the beginning. From that point on ?

Speculative,

We embark as immortal beings, into the cosmos to populate the silent and lonely universe. To assume our Fathers original plan and realize our true purpose at last, that as of now, has only deviated from. We will have the relationship and guidance that all children want with their Father. Gods love and wisdom will be with us as we fill the dimensions with loving children of God making him smile.

You ? Nothing.

I would love to be there and see the look on our Fathers face, when he finally realizes his optimum objective.
That it is by free will, that he is loved. If mankind is ever to have had a purpose ? It should be just that.
Eternal exploration and population of the unending closed system incubator he has employed for the purpose of his own reproduction. Satans hate for us becomes more clear when looked upon as normal shop talk. Humans are " related. " ( a term you can hear in any shop prefab to retail ). Satan is just an employee.

You ? Nothing.

In this way Gaff you get everything you want also. It's been a win , win the whole time if you could just see that ?

God will grant your eternal wish of a black abyss. But only after you call for, " mountains and rocks, " to cover over you. Because you will first have to see what you chose not to know. And there fore will lament at your own stupidity and ignorance in thus manner.

You will enjoy, know, be apart of and feel nothing. Not much unlike now.

edit on 2-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 


cogito, what a closed mind you have. and you give names to things like stardust and mention processes. and a post after you praises your fact finding. amazing observations when, as far as i can judge, you have not a clue what goes on and am stuck in duality as much as anyone else. your mind is a part of all you can see and can never go beyond it to find a beginning or causeless cause.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Wow you speak of a black abyss like it is something I will be aware of, when I die and when you die for that matter it will just be like before we were born.

We had no consciousness and when our brains die we will have no consciousness again. You'll be dead, gone, none existent. There will be no black abyss to worry about as you won't be there to experience it.

This is what the religious can never seem to grasp, you don't seem to understand what death is. It is a shame in a way that there won't be a point when you realise there is no god and no heaven, you'll just switch off and be gone forever.

I take comfort by knowing that at some point in time even though I won't be conscious of it that my atoms will be reused just like they are now. Eventually when the earth does end I will at some point return to the stardust from which I came from. You and the rest of the delusional can make up fantasy stories of eternal bliss to keep you from having a mental breakdown but I am fine with death, there is nothing I can do to stop it so why should I worry about it.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 





I take comfort by knowing that at some point in time even though I won't be conscious of it that my atoms will be reused just like they are now. Eventually when the earth does end I will at some point return to the stardust from which I came from. You and the rest of the delusional can make up fantasy stories of eternal bliss to keep you from having a mental breakdown but I am fine with death, there is nothing I can do to stop it so why should I worry about it.


Claiming you know something that no one else does. Is strong indication that you don't know much.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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I take comfort by knowing that at some point in time even though I won't be conscious of it that my atoms will be reused just like they are now. Eventually when the earth does end I will at some point return to the stardust from which I came from. You and the rest of the delusional can make up fantasy stories of eternal bliss to keep you from having a mental breakdown but I am fine with death, there is nothing I can do to stop it so why should I worry about it.



Personally, I liked how he implied my mental stability is contingent on my spiritual beliefs. Pretty bold claim seeing as how modern science wouldn't be even half as far as it is today without Isaac Newton (yeah, that thorn in your side?) Who just so happened to be a theist.

But it's cool bro. When you return to cosmic dust heaven and we're all left twisting in cosmic dust hell... wait...wut?

edit on 2-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-11-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by orangutang

cogito, what a closed mind you have. and you give names to things like stardust and mention processes. and a post after you praises your fact finding. amazing observations when, as far as i can judge, you have not a clue what goes on and am stuck in duality as much as anyone else. your mind is a part of all you can see and can never go beyond it to find a beginning or causeless cause.



Thank you Orangutan. Always a pleasure I'm sure.


You do realise that writing a completely ad hominem single paragraph is not the best conversation method?

Perhaps you could try to put some genuine points forward which might make it relevant, explaining how my views would necessitate a closed mind and exactly why they couldn't be arrived at any other way?

If you can show me where they are wrong, even better.

Perhaps you could expand on "as far as i can judge, you have not a clue what goes on". Explaining not only why I don't, but why you definitely do "have a clue" and therefore are sole arbiter of such things?

I also wonder why I wouldn't be stuck in duality, "like everyone else"? I am having a bit of trouble finding where I made a claim to the contrary?

Am I to take it that you yourself are beyond duality, Mr. Spock? For you there is no happy/sad, yes/no, like/dislike? If not, I wonder why you would bring it up?

I would be especially fascinated to have you qualify your last sentence. Please do.

At the moment it appears your response was simply an emotionally driven opinion. Did my points hurt your feelings?



Thanks.


edit on 2-11-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum
 


cogito, what a closed mind you have. and you give names to things like stardust and mention processes. and a post after you praises your fact finding. amazing observations when, as far as i can judge, you have not a clue what goes on and am stuck in duality as much as anyone else. your mind is a part of all you can see and can never go beyond it to find a beginning or causeless cause.



Were you in a hurry or have you failed to grasp the shift key?

Your statements ( and I use that term lightly) make no sense whatsoever.

I find Cogito's mind is remarkably open, and factually astute.

This is usually the case when a man ( or woman) has a post year 12 education.

May I suggest you follow this course rather than embarrass yourself further?

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Isaac Newton is not a thorn in anybody's side he was a great man and I'm proud to say a fellow Brit. He was a genious and also quite mad. After his famous discoveries he dabbled in the do called black arts as he believed in that too, he was wrong just like he was wrong to believe in god.

Just because somebody is clever doesn't mean their always correct.

You can list many theist scientists but you might get further by offering proof if a god. Something nobody has ever managed to do.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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@CogitoErgoSum.....

As a fellow Atheist, I must say I find it ironic that, of all philosphical statements, you have chosen this one for your screenname. You do realize that Descartes was deeply religious and that Cogito, Ergo Sum is an expression from his Five Meditations that, to him, prove the existence of God?

Descartes revived the ontological argument and concluded that God's existence can be deduced from his nature, just as geometric ideas can be deduced from the nature of shapes. He suggested that the concept of God is that of a supremely perfect being, holding all perfections, proposed that existence is a perfection: it would be more perfect to exist than not to exist. Thus, if the notion of God did not include existence, it would not be supremely perfect, as it would be lacking a perfection. Consequently, the notion of a supremely perfect God who does not exist, He argues, is unintelligible. Therefore, according to his nature, God must exist.

He also did not just believe in a deity, he believed in the omniscient, omnipotent personal God of the Bible.

Just sayin..... ;-)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


CONSCIOUSNESS
EXPLAINS
EXISTENCE



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by randyvs
 


CONSCIOUSNESS
EXPLAINS
EXISTENCE


No, it doesn't - unless you can show that animals and plants are also conscious of their existence.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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Tell people that there is an invisible man in the sky and the majority of people will believe you. Tell people that paint is wet and they will have to touch it to make sure - George Carlin



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by GafferUK1981
 


That is the worst attempt at humor I've ever seen from Carlin. RIP
First it fails as humor.


Tell people that there is an invisible man in the sky and the majority of people will believe you.

And this isn't even close to true.
No, people of antiquity I believe were highly intelligent and didn't just believe what someone told them. Everything
thing they did took great knowledge and effort. So no, if they did something, like copy manuscripts of great importance ? Or believed something they felt should be immortalized by gigantic, symmetrically perfect, stone monuments ? I don't think they were to interested in lies or fairy tales.


You want to put anything else up that is a complete fail ? What is that like 9 in row now ?

Slugger9787

Hey man, I bet 9787 is your DOB huh ?

edit on 2-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


That's rich coming from you pal, have you ever written a post containing factual evidence?

Nope!




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