Christianity would die without Islam.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by borntowatch
I am a Christian and dont know any Muslims, I am alive.

Also Christianity grew long before Islam came along, Christians didnt need it then.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should both Christianity and Islam revert and follow their religious root, Judaism, and recognize that their man created versions of their Gods are evil and reject them as unfit to rule any peaceful loving egalitarian nation?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

and just quietly can you point me in the direction of this peaceful loving egalitarian nation you speak of, I am going there.
Unicorns and fairys I am sure.

edit on 17-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Where there is the least amount of religions.

What does that tell you of religion and the religious?

Regards
DL

So Stalins Russia, Maos China, Pol Pots Cambodia? Like those non religious country's?

Do you intentionally set yourself up as a butt of a joke?

It is a part of the relevant religion's eschatology. It is only Christianity that believes this Messiah figure needs to die/have died for us, I don't believe it is an existing belief in Judaism, and it isn't in Islam.

It is a prophesy to give people hope and wrap things up. When things get totally and really bad, "there will be someone coming who will save you".

reply to post by Greatest I am

I do not think any God would be that stupid. He would be saving us from himself.
To me, this is ridiculous.

No, he is saving us from ourselves. Adam broke the law and tainted everyone of his future children, the penalty for breaking the law was death. When Adam walked over the edge of the cliff he took all of us with him. It's all about the choices you make, you make the wrong choice you could end up paying with your life and that is the moral of the story and it applies to this day. People make the wrong choices all the time and they pay with their lives.

reply to post by babloyi

It is a part of the relevant religion's eschatology. It is only Christianity that believes this Messiah figure needs to die/have died for us, I don't believe it is an existing belief in Judaism, and it isn't in Islam.

Then explain this, that comes from a hebrew prophet, Isaiah to be specific.

Isaiah 53

1
Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.


4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.


10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.





And explain this one from Daniel, another hebrew prophet. Both he and Isaiah were of the mind the Messiah would die for our transgressions. The truth is jews do believe the Messiah would die for our sins, they just do not believe it was Jesus.

Daniel 9:26-27

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

Christianity would die without Islam

That's silly. Christianity was around for hundreds and hundreds of years before Islam was invented. It didn't die before Islam. And if Islam disappeared, Christianity wouldn't disappear because Islam did. Christianity did just fine without Islam before, and it can easily do it again.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'd like other Christians to comment on this.
From what I know, Christians believe that "messiah" refers ONLY to Jesus.

Muhammad was a messiah, but not the messiah.

Christians use 'Saviour' and 'Messiah' interchangeably. For Christians there is only ONE Messiah. Jesus. If you say something like 'John the Baptiser was a messiah' .. Christians will give you a really odd look. For Christians, John the Baptiser was a prophet. There were a lots of prophets accepted by both Christians and Jews. The Jews are still waiting for their Messiah. If you ask a Jew if Daniel was a messiah they'll say 'no, he was a prophet'.

For Christians and Jews .. only one Messiah .. Jesus.

I have no idea if Muslims call Muhammad a Messiah. I've only heard them call him a prophet (or THE prophet). Reading the definition of messiah I don't see Muhammed fitting that definition. Whatever.

reply to post by FlyersFan

For Christians and Jews .. only one Messiah .. Jesus.

Ideally yes.
But the Jews are opposed to Jesus who both Christians and muslims call messiah.

Also this whole "A" messiah and "THE" messiah nonsense thats been going around this thread is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by borntowatch
I am a Christian and dont know any Muslims, I am alive.

Also Christianity grew long before Islam came along, Christians didnt need it then.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should both Christianity and Islam revert and follow their religious root, Judaism, and recognize that their man created versions of their Gods are evil and reject them as unfit to rule any peaceful loving egalitarian nation?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

and just quietly can you point me in the direction of this peaceful loving egalitarian nation you speak of, I am going there.
Unicorns and fairys I am sure.

edit on 17-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

Where there is the least amount of religions.

What does that tell you of religion and the religious?

Regards
DL

So Stalins Russia, Maos China, Pol Pots Cambodia? Like those non religious country's?

Do you intentionally set yourself up as a butt of a joke?

Does your lover have to show you where your hands belong as well?

Walk through.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by babloyi
It is a part of the relevant religion's eschatology. It is only Christianity that believes this Messiah figure needs to die/have died for us, I don't believe it is an existing belief in Judaism, and it isn't in Islam.

It is a prophesy to give people hope and wrap things up. When things get totally and really bad, "there will be someone coming who will save you".

No it is not a Jewish belief except for the few.

Jews have always been more moral than Christians from what I can see so it is not surprising that they would reject human sacrifice and the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I do not think any God would be that stupid. He would be saving us from himself.
To me, this is ridiculous.

No, he is saving us from ourselves. Adam broke the law and tainted everyone of his future children, the penalty for breaking the law was death. When Adam walked over the edge of the cliff he took all of us with him. It's all about the choices you make, you make the wrong choice you could end up paying with your life and that is the moral of the story and it applies to this day. People make the wrong choices all the time and they pay with their lives.

So Adam condemned us all. Where did he get that power over sin and hell?

Quite the prick that. Poweful as well.

Strange though that he did God's job of condemning and forgiving and God just let him.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Christianity would die without Islam

That's silly. Christianity was around for hundreds and hundreds of years before Islam was invented. It didn't die before Islam. And if Islam disappeared, Christianity wouldn't disappear because Islam did. Christianity did just fine without Islam before, and it can easily do it again.

Rome's greatest achievement. An immoral religion.

You have your head so far up it that this is all you deserve.

I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

blog.ted.com...

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavians and later through Constantine.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL