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Christianity would die without Islam.

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posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Christianity would die without Islam.

Belief is a psychological and imposed condition. Mutual fear and The Nobel Lie is sustaining both Islam and Christianity by governments. They are using religion and the religious as patsies.

The Lie is necessary, Plato argues, in order to keep a stable social structure. In Plato’s mind, The Noble Lie is a religious lie that’s fed to the masses to keep them under control and happy with their situation in life.

Plato did not believe most people were smart enough to look after their own and society’s best interest. The few smart people of the world needed to lead the rest of the flock, Plato said. And The Noble Lie had to continue.

I have been puzzled for some time now as to why the West embraces a pathological and genocidal God who shows almost all works and deeds of hate instead of love.

If I understand why the West chose the Christian God of war correctly, that choice was made and is sustained by the pressures of war brought against it by Islam. The Islamic dogma of kill the infidels show other religions that that God is just as pathological and intolerant as the Christian God with his, believe in me or end in hell policy. The West fought fire with fire. A holy pissing contest based on the Noble Lie on both sides.

Rome, now the West, would have had to have a different God than what their Eastern counterparts had. Rome was created as a defensive response to invasions from the Khans and tribes of the Fertile Crescent, Islam. As the Asian tribes relented in their expansion, the main enemy of the West became and is now Islam.

Constantine chose Christianity. First, as a ploy to win in battle and maintained it later, even as he was not a Christian at heart, for his own self-aggrandizement as his plan, according to archeology, was to usurp Jesus as the new King/God.

www.youtube.com...

From there, Rome pushed northward and promoted the Christian God of war on his ability to win battles. The West of today was born.

www.youtube.com...

Unfortunately, morality was never the draw for this Christian God. Only his barbarism that was used against all other Gods and most notably Islam’s.

The fear of Islam then is what is still the driving force that explains the West embracing the pathological and genocidal God of Christianity. It was all just the one-upmanship of killing power.

Vatican II tried for rapprochement with Islam and today, progressive Christianity is trying to offer an olive branch to Islam.

Are the right wings of Christianity and Islam ready to bury the hatchet of war and competition and have their Gods kiss and make up or will the demographics of Muslim peoples force the remainder of this century to be one of conflict?
Will both religions have what it takes to return to the older thinking that there is only one nameless God for all, or will we continue to fight for what is basically a name for God that all books of wisdom say we should not name?

www.patheos.com...

Should both Christianity and Islam revert and follow their religious root, Judaism, and recognize that their man created versions of their Gods are evil and reject them as unfit to rule any peaceful loving egalitarian nation?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL




posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Well, I can't say I have never thought of it like that, because I have.

It will be interesting to hear what the community has to say..... although I can imagine the hostility that will come out of such a thread. Either way.... it has a right to be discussed.

War in my opinion is not "Godly".

Killing others for survival is one thing... but just to do it because of fear or resources... is another.

Both Islam and Christianity believe their way is the only way. Others are infidels or evil. What kind of judgement like that comes with spirituality? It doesn't.

Live and let live... but hey..... the elite would rather us be at each others throat so they have an excuse to do what they do in the shadows. Just my opinion...of course.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Are the right wings of Christianity and Islam ready to bury the hatchet of war and competition and have their Gods kiss and make up or will the demographics of Muslim peoples force the remainder of this century to be one of conflict?


The muslims believe their God is the same as the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the prophets.
The christians reject what the muslims believe, and they believe they worship the God of the Jews.
The Jews reject Christianity entirely as polytheistic and idolatrous. In fact, nobody else is opposed to Jesus as much as the Jews.

However, the jews accept that Muslims worship the God of Abraham... which is why they would rather pray in a mosque if they cant find a synagogye. Its also why they eat Halal when they cant find Kosher. Any conflict between them is purely political.

Islam perfectly bridges the gap between Judaism and Christianity because it retains Judaisms monotheism and accepts Jesus as the messiah. In fact, Islam is the ONLY religion, besides Christianity that accept Jesus as messiah.

I wouldn't say "Christianity would die without Islam".
But Christianity does receive backing from Islam because of Islams acceptance of Jesus as messiah.
Of course, the hardcore fundamentalists conceal this truth and spread the lie that Islam sees Jesus as a "mere prophet".

Without Islam, Christianity would be alone in its claims of Jesus status as messiah. Islam validates and confirms the claim of Jesus' messiahship.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





But Christianity does receive backing from Islam because of Islams acceptance of Jesus as messiah.


Is that what you call not being allowed to build and maintain churches, and proselytizing outlawed on pain of death or imprisonment on the occassion your muslim friends who claim theyre the real muslims don't blow us up in our own churches or homes while being forced to pay jizzya poll tax just to exist?

BTW your Jesus ain't our Jesus. Your Jesus is our Antichrist. So the above mentioned statement? NAAAAHHHHH.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


But Christianity does receive backing from Islam because of Islams acceptance of Jesus as messiah.

Is that what you call not being allowed to build and maintain churches


Islam backs Christianity regarding the messiah. Its more than enough.
Name one other religion that accepts Jesus as the messiah.
I don't see why Islam needs to allow churches that teach wrong ideas about Jesus.


BTW your Jesus ain't our Jesus. Your Jesus is our Antichrist.


Gee. I dont know... the bible says Jesus is messiah. The Koran says Jesus is messiah.
So lets go by what the books say... and not ideas of fundamentalist christian preachers, who spread lies and half-truths about Islams view on Jesus.






edit on 16-10-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
Well, I can't say I have never thought of it like that, because I have.

It will be interesting to hear what the community has to say..... although I can imagine the hostility that will come out of such a thread. Either way.... it has a right to be discussed.

War in my opinion is not "Godly".

Killing others for survival is one thing... but just to do it because of fear or resources... is another.

Both Islam and Christianity believe their way is the only way. Others are infidels or evil. What kind of judgement like that comes with spirituality? It doesn't.

Live and let live... but hey..... the elite would rather us be at each others throat so they have an excuse to do what they do in the shadows. Just my opinion...of course.


A fine one in my books.

You seem to understand government's use of religions and the Noble Lie. Most do not.
I think that at this point in time, it has become immoral.

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Greatest I am
 




Are the right wings of Christianity and Islam ready to bury the hatchet of war and competition and have their Gods kiss and make up or will the demographics of Muslim peoples force the remainder of this century to be one of conflict?


The muslims believe their God is the same as the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the prophets.
The christians reject what the muslims believe, and they believe they worship the God of the Jews.
The Jews reject Christianity entirely as polytheistic and idolatrous. In fact, nobody else is opposed to Jesus as much as the Jews.

However, the jews accept that Muslims worship the God of Abraham... which is why they would rather pray in a mosque if they cant find a synagogye. Its also why they eat Halal when they cant find Kosher. Any conflict between them is purely political.

Islam perfectly bridges the gap between Judaism and Christianity because it retains Judaisms monotheism and accepts Jesus as the messiah. In fact, Islam is the ONLY religion, besides Christianity that accept Jesus as messiah.

I wouldn't say "Christianity would die without Islam".
But Christianity does receive backing from Islam because of Islams acceptance of Jesus as messiah.
Of course, the hardcore fundamentalists conceal this truth and spread the lie that Islam sees Jesus as a "mere prophet".

Without Islam, Christianity would be alone in its claims of Jesus status as messiah. Islam validates and confirms the claim of Jesus' messiahship.



No Muslim I ever spoke to saw Jesus as the messiah. He was always a prophet or Rabbi.
A few Jews do think Jesus divine but not many from what I can see.

Have you got a link to Muslims who think Jesus was the messiah?

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 



They are using religion and the religious as patsies.


Very well said. This sentence holds a lot of weight in my book. +S



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





But Christianity does receive backing from Islam because of Islams acceptance of Jesus as messiah.


Is that what you call not being allowed to build and maintain churches, and proselytizing outlawed on pain of death or imprisonment on the occassion your muslim friends who claim theyre the real muslims don't blow us up in our own churches or homes while being forced to pay jizzya poll tax just to exist?

BTW your Jesus ain't our Jesus. Your Jesus is our Antichrist. So the above mentioned statement? NAAAAHHHHH.


You are still holding onto the fear mongering political campaign against the religion of Islam? Come on, the more I have been on this site, the more radical your ideology and judgement gets.

People with your type of ideology and judgement are the patsies that the OP was referring to.

I am not saying you are not knowledgeable, I'm saying you don't know how to correctly use that knowledge to gain some insight and wisdom, which I believe, you have great potential to gain wisdom since your database of information is probably far superior than mine.

You know that Rome nationalized Christianity as a political move, don't you think other countries would follow up on the same idea? Won't you see and acknowledge there is a pattern of states of government nationalizing and controlling a religion in order to justify countless atrocities and control the people, just as the Pharisees did which ended up blinding them to see that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and were led to believe a physical messiah would overthrow Roman rule and return Israel to its physical glory?


.
edit on 16-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 16-10-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 





You know that Rome nationalized Christianity as a political move, don't you think other countries would follow up on the same idea? Won't you see and acknowledge there is a pattern of states of government nationalizing and controlling a religion in order to justify countless atrocities and control the people, just as the Pharisees did which ended up blinding them to see that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and were led to believe a physical messiah would overthrow Roman rule and return Israel to its physical glory?


Rome legalized christianity, and later made it the official state religion. The entire point behind making it the official state religion I suspect was to delay the inevitable collapse of the empire. The Caesars and Popes knew Rome couldn't continue on the path it was on, it could only survive as a religion. It didn't have anything to do with spreading christianity it had to do with controlling it for the benefit of the empire so yes, Rome did use christianity. Yes states can and do sometimes use religions and their political systems for their own ends, and Rome is not the first to do this and it will not be the last. Muhammad did the same bloody thing with Islam, he used it to forge his empire and muslim to this day are still getting snookered by the false prophet.




You are still holding onto the fear mongering political campaign against the religion of Islam? Come on, the more I have been on this site, the more radical your ideology and judgement gets.


I'm not holding onto anything except 1400 years of Islam's history. Pick up a history book, or even a Quran and you will see where Islam is heading, they're following in Muhammad's foosteps and Islam's end will be it's beginning just as christianity's end shall be it's beginning. Only a fool would ignore the history of Islam which isn't a religion at all but a rigorous series of brutal laws aimed at quashing any opposition to muslim authority and rule. Islam is also an empire that knows no borders nor does it respect borders or even other religions. History repeats itself in cycles and it's about to loop around again only this time we have weapons capable of destroying every living thing on this planet. I get a constant reminder everyday of what Islam is when i read about women being stoned to death for adultery, or homosexuals being hanged and yet you say my ideology and judgement is getting radical? I believe in mercy, compassion and forgiveness, no matter what an adulterer or homosexual did, it's nothing that Jesus is not willing to forgive. I don't even own a firearm, the thought of taking a life is horrifying to me and i couldn't live with myself if i had blood on my hands.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 



Have you got a link to Muslims who think Jesus was the messiah?


errr... just look up "Islam + Jesus + messiah" in google


In Islam, Jesus (Isa; Arabic: عيسى‎ ʿĪsā) is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) who was sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.



en.wikipedia.org...


Christian preachers who rail against Islam know this very well, but conceal Islams view of Jesus as the messiah to their flocks.

Christians who know Jesus is messiah in Islam stand in denial, mostly by making statements such as "the Jesus of muslims is not the Jesus of Christians".

But the truth remains regardless of how many people deny it.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 04:31 AM
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I've always wondered: when terms like like Islam, Christianity or Judaism are used, then what exactly does this mean in each case?

What is the best, or standard form of:
1. Islam
2. Christianity
3. Judaism

I've heard of different groups within all these faiths oppress and kill each other, or even try and internally convert each other.

We have the Catholics and many different Protestants, the Sunnis and the Shiites, and many kinds of Jewish groups.

So before we say "this" religion would die without 'that" religion, we should ask how exactly we define "religion" on a grand-scale?

Is there a final authority of interpretation, some institution or authority to say this version of a religion is the "correct" one to posit against another "correct" version of religion?
edit on 17-10-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-10-2012 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 

I guess the simplest, most universally acceptable criterion would be the book.
Jews: Hebrew Bible
Christians: Bible
Muslims: Quran

So (not that I agree with the OP's statement, but) it could be restated as follows: The belief set of the followers of the Bible would die without the belief set of the followers of the Quran.

reply to post by Greatest I am
 

As sk0rpi0n says, the Quran itself refers to Jesus as the Messiah.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Is that what you call not being allowed to build and maintain churches, and proselytizing outlawed on pain of death or imprisonment on the occassion your muslim friends who claim theyre the real muslims don't blow us up in our own churches or homes while being forced to pay jizzya poll tax just to exist?

What are you talking about?
edit on 17-10-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 

That would be the simplest explanation, but it's far from satisfactory, because those scriptures have to be interpreted and contextualized.

I suppose the Sunni Muslims have the Al-Azhar University in Egypt.
en.wikipedia.org...

I guess Evangelical Christians have programs like Pat Robertson's 700 Club, or media like TBN to dish out the main agreements on everything from fitness to marriage advice.

Then of course there's also the Pope and the Vatican, and the Anglicans with their recently reduced Bible.

Jews also have many different teachings, but at least Reform Jews and the Jews for Jesus are still Jews?

Then there's a lot of Christians who follow some fundamentalists guru with a beard and imagine themselves Jews.
Perhaps they are the new God-fearers?

It gets very confusing - so to say all these groups have distinct additional scriptures to the Torah is correct, but that's only part of the story.
It's perhaps saying majority rules, or a certain interpretation rules?

I often wonder what killed more people in religion - fighting another religion, or divisions within a single religion in a struggle for hegemonic control?



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by Greatest I am
 



They are using religion and the religious as patsies.


Very well said. This sentence holds a lot of weight in my book. +S


Thanks.

Regards
DL



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 

Well, if you are asking in the sense of a "Thing" or an "Idea" that all members of X group agree to (thus can be used as an identifier for X group), the books ARE the simplest and most accurate answer you could get.

Sure, many Muslims/Christians/Jews disagree with each other on the interpretations of those books, but they all agree on them as an authority, definitely more so than Sunni muslims would agree with Al-Azhar university, or Christians would agree with the 700 club.

If it is a problem of "What defines X religion?" then the book would indeed be the best and most accurate description, more so than any school or TV channel.
If the problem is "What is the ruleset of X religion?" or "What is a comprehensive and total list of beliefs of X religion?", then yes, you'll never get a satisfactory answer, because of multiple interpretations, although the ruleset isn't what describes a religion, and the major beliefs are usually all agreed on, and the minor ones don't really define the religion either.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 

Good answer, I think, or at least the best possible.

Of course then one can ask which version of the books, but yeah broadly one can say the Muslims have the Koran and the Christians have the Bible, and so forth.

That's very simplistic, and really repeats the problem in one sense (why so many sects who believe in one book?), but its the simplest common sense answer.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by babloyi
 




If it is a problem of "What defines X religion?" then the book would indeed be the best and most accurate description, more so than any school or TV channel.


If the book was the most accurate description of Islam, and if preachers used the book as a reference...then you can bet that the anti-Islam preachers would be out of business.

I see a LOT of people attacking Islam on these forums.
Yet, NONE of them acknowledge that Islam sees the Jesus of the bible as the Islamic messiah.

Interesting isn't it?
Muslims accept an Israelite....a JEW as their messiah and yet, are constantly misunderstood as being opposed to Christianity.

The Jews however, are the ONLY people whos religious beliefs are incompatible with Jesus...they insult Jesus and his mother and yet, Christians support them over Muslims.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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I am a Christian and dont know any Muslims, I am alive.

Also Christianity grew long before Islam came along, Christians didnt need it then.


Originally posted by Greatest I am
Should both Christianity and Islam revert and follow their religious root, Judaism, and recognize that their man created versions of their Gods are evil and reject them as unfit to rule any peaceful loving egalitarian nation?

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL


and just quietly can you point me in the direction of this peaceful loving egalitarian nation you speak of, I am going there.
Unicorns and fairys I am sure.
edit on 17-10-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

errr... just look up "Islam + Jesus + messiah" in google[

Christian preachers who rail against Islam know this very well, but conceal Islams view of Jesus as the messiah to their flocks.
But the truth remains regardless of how many people deny it.



Yes Muslims accept Christ as a chosen one (Messiah).
All the ancient Hebrew Prophets were chosen ones as well, so were the Hebrew kings. In fact so was Cyrus the great, who killed many Hebrews.
Christians see Jesus as the final Messiah, the last Adam.

Jesus is the living God in human form. The third part of the Trinity, Muslims deny that.

Many Christians see the word Messiah referring only to Christ. Messiah is a generic term for, chosen one of God.

Simple error re understanding the meaning of a word.

Muslims dont accept Christ as Saviour.





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