It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Believers in after life, why do the MAJORITY of people who survived clinical death not experience a

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:13 AM
link   
reply to post by chelle21689
 


There are no scientific evidences (something that can be validated). There have been few attempts to study it (more than reincarnation claims), to a point it is frustrating that no more effort is put into this type of subject. There is no doubt that the experience happens to some and that is has a great impact and significance to those that go through them. They deserve to be respected (like any faith and belief subject, especially since it only impacts the person that experiences it). There is no call, practicality or purpose on attempting to deny that others had the experience. Any significance beyond that personal experience, should be taken with a grain of salt, until more is understood, especially when there is some profit or an attempt to take advantage of it.

Religion and dogma has no place providing even a framework for explaining this type of phenomena since most of it came to be long after the phenomena was possible, in fact it becomes a chicken and egg dilemma, trance states predate all religions. To me it is clear that it all has to do with consciousness, personal experience/memory and belief systems. I do not believe in hell or after life, but I like the idea of a self reckoning at the end, that those that have done evil and are able to understand their actions as bad (in whatever social framework they lived) and voice versa, in a place where time loses any significance. People should aim to live this life with as few regrets as possible, whatever happens afterwards, that seems a good policy to fallow (without any complicated baggage required).




posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 05:27 AM
link   
reply to post by chelle21689
 


Chelle21689, I think you're too young to worry about the afterlife yet. Enjoy your young life because time is fleeting, and the older you get the quicker it seems to go.
I don't believe we are meant to understand or remember a nde, I think sometimes the experiencer will remember for a reason, it may help them to grab hold of life here or give them a greater purpose.
Those that do remember are often profoundly changed by it.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 06:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by r2d246
 



The afterlife and dying etc, must have an element of mystery remain in tact so that when you believe you believe in faith. Not just based on facts.


So it's the not knowing about the afterlife that affirms your knowing of the afterlife lol



A way to preserve free will. If you knew definitively that heaven and hell awaited with all kinds of facts on each then you'd lose your free will to a large degree. You might still be stupid and choose hell anyway but for the majority of rational thinking people free will would be gone. Just my opinion. Also look up the definition of faith ok.
edit on 16-10-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 07:33 AM
link   
reply to post by chelle21689
 


My Thoughts:
Clinical death dosnt always mean dead if the body is still ok and the spirit wants to stay

There is no way back from the spirit realm, if you are dead your spirit goes to the spirit realm within a fraction of a second and then re-incarnate's after it processes things

Sometimes I think entities can pretend to be a relative so they can enslave you, but just use free will say no, dont go with them through the door, there is always a leach



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 07:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by chelle21689
Sorry if this is similar to my last post but I wasn't getting the answers I wanted because I think many people MISUNDERSTOOD what I said. They thought I was asking "Why doesn't everyone have a NDE?" What I meant was...why do MANY MANY people who "died" and brought back to life have a near death experience? Most who have been clinically dead experience NOTHING.

I already know the scientific explanation that they believe it is '___' or some other chemical that causes this so it affects everyone differently. What I don't know is a logical believer's explanation that convinces me.


Perhaps what we regard as "death" is not quite true death. By definition, if you die, you can't come back.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:30 AM
link   
reply to post by troubleshooter
 


Understandable. This topic captivates me so much, that I want to learn what people have experienced. If you ever want to share, please let me know.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by chelle21689
Here is the source of the study which can also be found in I believe the "Near Death Experience" on Youtube

www.near-death.com...

You happy? Most people interveriewed who had been clinically dead but brought back to life have not reported experiencing NDE. My question is WHY. I'm not hear to argue whether or not this is real...jeez.


Seriously, dude. It's your problem to present your case and in your OP you simply did not do it, which I pointed out. To go all ad hominem on me for pointing it out doesn't solve your problem. Talk about panties in a twist! Look inward (or down).

So now at least you have a citation. And what does it say?


Dec 17 (Reuters Health) - While no one is sure exactly what they are or why they occur, ''near-death'' experiences may not be explainable by science alone, according to researchers.


So right off the bat we have a conclusion opposite of your contention. The study also claims that 18% of patients report an NDE. That's a pretty hefty percentage. Of course, it depends on how you spin it, but at 18% I certainly wouldn't be saying MANY MANY people experience NOTHING. I would be saying, "Out of a fairly small sample of 344 patients who were declared clinically dead, a full 18% reported an NDE experience." It's a statistically valid percentage.

Much of science is desperate to disprove anything of the sort and they'll throw anything at the wall to see if it sticks. But they're speculating. They can't prove that a chemical released by the brain is responsible for NDEs. They're simply speculating because they do not know. It's not as if it's morally acceptable to go experimenting on clinically dead patients as they are trying to revive them.

This is a fairly minor study over a decade old with no information about protocols used. They appear to have simply asked the patients, sometimes years later, if they remember anything. Indeed, this isn't even science nor even good psychology. There doesn't appear to be an experimenta; designs nor is there any information of this "study," such as it is, has ever been replicated.

So you wind up being technically correct in your wording while proving nothing. Indeed, the majority of people in this small study did not report anything. So? I don't think we have to explain that. It is not required that 100% of clinically dead people report NDEs. 18% is a phenomenol number, really. It would be interesting to see if the same results could be obtained from a better sample: 10,000, for example. In any other field of endeavor, were it cold fusion or zero point energy, scientists would be falling all over themselves about this outstanding result.

To point out what you have confirms NDEs; it does not deny them.

OMG, Finally you have answered the question, CONGRATULATIONS...that is all I wanted. Thank you. By the way, I never denied NDE I just question them to understand them more often. That is all.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by randomname
reply to post by smyleegrl
 


that's not true, the dead do.

second the spirit and the body are different.

i believe the nde are from people who have died, confirmed by the doctors and equipment, then leave their bodies in spirit.

usually to come back and give testament.

and the ones that died and experienced nothing, their spirit remained giving strength and time for the body to recover.


This is also a good answer. Thanks



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by chelle21689
What's wrong with WANTING answers to all the questions there is about NDE? I could go on forever. You don't have to reply if you're annoyed with my questions but as long as it's not against the rules here I see no problem with it. I think a lot about what happens after death.


Because you could have made do with one thread, rather than six or seven on the same subject. That's frowned upon here, for a number of reasons.

As for your question, it is irrelevant, because the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If 100 people experience clinical death, and 1 has a clearly valid NDE and 99 do not, it is the one that is notable, not the 999, no?


It is all int he same category but not the same question. It is why I asked. It's like the talk about cars...it'd be the same subject about cars but there's millions of things you can ask about cars. As long as the moderator is okay with it then I'll continue. This is why I hate that there's no anonymous posting...people judge you because you're interested in a certain topic. If you had not known my history of this you'd reply without concern to my curiosity to this.

Thank you everyone (those who weren't sensitive jerks) for the great answers! Different opinions and theories that put me at a different perspective.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:47 AM
link   
reply to post by 11azerus11
 


I am glad that you figured it out. Now, I hope that you take advantage of that.

I see a lot of similarities in my current situation. I try not to be negative, but sometimes I cannot help it. As we know, it is a work in progress, and I hope that I master it.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:10 PM
link   
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake
 


just let go and appreciate and admire



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:44 PM
link   
reply to post by 11azerus11
 


I know...and I try. I just do not care for where I am in my life right now. I want to move badly, but cannot quite yet. Soon though



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 05:54 PM
link   
reply to post by r2d246
 



Also look up the definition of faith ok.


Thanks but that won't be necessary. I am well read. I know something as elementary as the definition of the word. More than that I have read your Bible and studied philosophy of religion. But you go ahead and keep assuming everyone with a different faith is an idiot
Typical of your faith



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:25 PM
link   
It looks like autowrench did not accept my apology and I know why.
I wonder how many times the word "clear" is used in the book Dianetics.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 09:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by TRUELIES11
It looks like autowrench did not accept my apology and I know why.
I wonder how many times the word "clear" is used in the book Dianetics.


Star for you, but, no, Autowrench isn't a Scientologist.

He would best be described, on a religious questionnaire, as "none of the above", and on a conspiracy questionnaire as "all of the above."



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 03:49 PM
link   
reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake
 


i wish i could say something that would help... but nobody could have told me anything when i was where u are now... everybody has different lessons to learn and with their own journeys... but something will change it always does.... just remember life is beautiful and with out suffering it wouldn.t be so
edit on 17-10-2012 by 11azerus11 because: typo



posted on Oct, 18 2012 @ 12:58 PM
link   
reply to post by 11azerus11
 


True. The good times definitely outweigh the bad







 
2
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join