Believers in after life, why do the MAJORITY of people who survived clinical death not experience a

Originally posted by TRUELIES11
reply to post by autowrench

 

A near death experience is simply what your spirit, as in you, think what dying is and what might happen based on what information you have collected throughout your life. An assumption and that is all a near death experience is.

Spoken like you know this to be a fact. Care to show your source? But you are right on one thing, at the moment of Death, it is your thoughts that will send you, recycle you, or ascend you to a higher level of conciousness. My thoughts on the matter are clear. How are yours?

reply to post by adjensen

Perhaps the OP's questions were not answered fully? That in itself would be a good reason.

Originally posted by chelle21689
Here is the source of the study which can also be found in I believe the "Near Death Experience" on Youtube

www.near-death.com...

You happy? Most people interveriewed who had been clinically dead but brought back to life have not reported experiencing NDE. My question is WHY. I'm not hear to argue whether or not this is real...jeez.

Seriously, dude. It's your problem to present your case and in your OP you simply did not do it, which I pointed out. To go all ad hominem on me for pointing it out doesn't solve your problem. Talk about panties in a twist! Look inward (or down).

So now at least you have a citation. And what does it say?

Dec 17 (Reuters Health) - While no one is sure exactly what they are or why they occur, ''near-death'' experiences may not be explainable by science alone, according to researchers.

So right off the bat we have a conclusion opposite of your contention. The study also claims that 18% of patients report an NDE. That's a pretty hefty percentage. Of course, it depends on how you spin it, but at 18% I certainly wouldn't be saying MANY MANY people experience NOTHING. I would be saying, "Out of a fairly small sample of 344 patients who were declared clinically dead, a full 18% reported an NDE experience." It's a statistically valid percentage.

Much of science is desperate to disprove anything of the sort and they'll throw anything at the wall to see if it sticks. But they're speculating. They can't prove that a chemical released by the brain is responsible for NDEs. They're simply speculating because they do not know. It's not as if it's morally acceptable to go experimenting on clinically dead patients as they are trying to revive them.

This is a fairly minor study over a decade old with no information about protocols used. They appear to have simply asked the patients, sometimes years later, if they remember anything. Indeed, this isn't even science nor even good psychology. There doesn't appear to be an experimenta; designs nor is there any information of this "study," such as it is, has ever been replicated.

So you wind up being technically correct in your wording while proving nothing. Indeed, the majority of people in this small study did not report anything. So? I don't think we have to explain that. It is not required that 100% of clinically dead people report NDEs. 18% is a phenomenol number, really. It would be interesting to see if the same results could be obtained from a better sample: 10,000, for example. In any other field of endeavor, were it cold fusion or zero point energy, scientists would be falling all over themselves about this outstanding result.

To point out what you have confirms NDEs; it does not deny them.

reply to post by troubleshooter


Interesting. Besides everyone thinking you were a nut job, why would you not want to tell people there was something after this place?

reply to post by chelle21689


Well, if they saw blackness...then they saw something right? Did they remember seeing the blackness, or what that just there way of saying I was gone, lights out?

If they did experience the blackness, and knew that they were, that is a positive sign, I would think, because their consciousness was still active.

reply to post by chelle21689


Well I find it to be interesting that usually only 15-20% recall NDEs. If it's a natural brain reaction of some sort, which it certainly could be, than why don't more people experience it?

There are some online medical journals that cover this topic if you need more stats.

As far as convincing cases, you should research the studies that involved blind people. These studies include people that are blind from birth have no visual perception whatsoever, even in a dream state. Yet some of them report seeing for the first time when experiencing the NDE.

Originally posted by MarshMallow_Snake
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Interesting. Besides everyone thinking you were a nut job, why would you not want to tell people there was something after this place?

I have learned stuff that I ma unable to explain/describe to most other people despite trying.

I think there are some things some can know and others not...
...when the student is ready the master arrives sort of thing I guess.

I didn't realize that when someone is brought back from death, that they are debriefed about everything they experienced. Then the records are stored away, only accessible by the OP. sarcasm aside, how do you know that the majority do not? Could it be that they don't want to be labelled as nutjubs for talking about what they saw? Perhaps it is embarrassment, If you died and went to hell, would you come back and tell everyone how you failed at life, and were cast into hell?

Hmm, touchy subject & many may feel intensely personal about their experience.

I died when I was 14, had the machines pumping things for me for a few days.
I don't have any conscious memories of the excursion but I will say that I was different after the fact & that's all I'm going to say about that.

reply to post by chelle21689


First, how do you know this is true?
I'd like to see the study that proves the MAJORITY of people who have clinically died do not describe or remember NDE's. After that there may be the case where they actually have the experience but don't remember. Different combinations of drugs during their operation or whatever may have something to do with it. I am not saying for certain but it is possible. I'd like to hear about an NDE from someone who wasn't good in the slightest, like a serial killer. I want to see if they can describe heaven. I am not sure what that will tell me but I am curious about it.

reply to post by smyleegrl


that's not true, the dead do.

second the spirit and the body are different.

i believe the nde are from people who have died, confirmed by the doctors and equipment, then leave their bodies in spirit.

usually to come back and give testament.

and the ones that died and experienced nothing, their spirit remained giving strength and time for the body to recover.

Spoken like you know this to be a fact. Care to show your source? But you are right on one thing, at the moment of Death, it is your thoughts that will send you, recycle you, or ascend you to a higher level of conciousness. My thoughts on the matter are clear. How are yours?

reply to post by autowrench

I apologize to you autowrench. I see now what happened. The reply I wrote about the near death experience was not meant to be directed at you. The reply was meant for chelle. I realize I must have clicked on your reply which was an accident. I meant the reply for chelle which was my answer to the question in the thread.
Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

For the same reason that people don't remember their dreams after waking up from sleep. I used to practice lucid dreaming and the craziest thing about the experience was the way I forgot the dream as soon as I woke up

To answer the op's question, because they aren't meant to see/know anything. Everyone thinks seeing the afterlife equals happiness & a book deal, the reality is you are judged based on what you know, if you see heaven, the spirit world, hell, limbo, whatever, you will be judged based on your knowledge, I don't think the majority of people are meant to see/know anything because it would only be worse for them, we are supposed to live not knowing, it wouldn't be a test if everyone had a cheat sheet, or if everyone had a life after death experience. I think the few, *very few* that experience it are meant to but they are then held more accountable, and I believe there are many who fake/lie about having it for a book deal or whatever attention,

I've passed out a few times (due to a phobia, it can't be controlled), nothing close to having my heart beat stopped or anything like that, but what I experience *rarely*, when I pass out is I see a blackness, I have consciousness within this blackness, I can look around and see nothing, but I can sense that I have the ability to see the blackness, it sometimes feels like I'm there for 1 hour, when I come to I am told I was out for 1 second, so time in this place is very interesting, I would bet that an atheist who sees this darkness is going to say it is simply his brain doing this or that, so it's all up to interpretation, but I know what I know, if you ever get proof for yourself that there is an afterlife, get ready for a ride, the ride is called 'you are now accountable based on that knowledge, and when you are judged you will be judged based on that knowledge', I think it's safe to say most people wouldn't/shouldn't have access to that info, based on how they live their lives.

reply to post by chelle21689

REM sleep, sleep studies? You disprove that?

Activity on an EEG?

All that shows with certainty is the brain is affected by dreaming. That does not conclusively prove dreaming is entirely contained, and a product of the brain.

Just like a biofeedback machine doesn't prove the fire that burned the finger was the product of the body.

reply to post by chelle21689


They are probably pussies...

Or their consciousness couldnt handle it, or wasnt chosen or whatever... Its pretty clear that if NDEs are real, they are beyond the human mind... so basically their spiritual "balls" havent dropped yet.

Not trying to be smug, I wouldnt be surprised if my NDE was pretty blank as well... just sayin, if you do indeed go to a higher dimension in an NDE, who is to say your brain will pick it up on return.

Remember the movie flatliners? If everyone automatically had this happen, then scientists would figure it out. They'd then use it as a way to try and communicate and explore the afterlife. And ultimately actually document scientifically that yes infact there is an afterlife as they have more that definitive proof via the flatline experimentation. Thus people wouldn't need faith anymore. The afterlife and dying etc, must have an element of mystery remain in tact so that when you believe you believe in faith. Not just based on facts.

reply to post by r2d246

The afterlife and dying etc, must have an element of mystery remain in tact so that when you believe you believe in faith. Not just based on facts.

So it's the not knowing about the afterlife that affirms your knowing of the afterlife lol

reply to post by chelle21689


i died and was brought back and at that time my life was like a roller coaster i was very angry and despised god for my misfortunes in life... i always had the question why? why why? i couldnt just except faith as the answer... then one day i was stabbed in the neck 3 times in a fight.... and i died and was brought back three times.... when i was stabbed i was standing over my body and remember the whole scene.. up until they started to saw my chest open to fix the arteries and veins... then i went to hell... it wasn't a dream it wasn't the drugs because when i woke up from my coma the drug hallucinations were different... this was sooo real i could feel the sweat on peoples knuckles i could smell the stench of the places... i traveled to 3 different places and each one started out ok comfortable but things quickly got worse and each one was worse than the last... some how i made it through... and everything was calm and peaceful and i was in a house... an old country house where u could hear every creack in the floor boards.... and as i made my way to the front porch a man was sitting on the steps smoking a ciggerette with his back turned to me.... he offered me one and i accepted... as i smoked the cigarette.... he said elijah.... what r u doing? this is ur last chance... flicked his cig got up and started to walk off and i woke up from my coma.................

now as for why i experienced this.... i think it was cause i had to learn a lesson.... it wasn't my time but i had to learn the hard way..... maybe its based on each individual's needs and the situation if life is not to be changed dramatically by the experience and your time is simply just not up then maybe they don't experience these things.... but when people need to be touched they will be touched... does it make sense? i'd like to thinks so