Let's Talk Russia [A Discussion on Russian Policy: Balance And International Politics]

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posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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In a few of my recent threads, it seems those who support American/NATO policy are increasingly pointing out that there are two sides to what is playing out and I will admit, it is something myself and many others on ATS overlook when criticising western foreign policy.

As the NATO nations are funding and training rebels to overthrow Assad, at the core of this policy is the control of resources and key transportation routes in the middle east region. Naturally, Russia is one of the biggest opponents to the NATO nations in this context. Rather than America and Russia openly fighting it out, they are using proxy wars and military campaigns that seek to improve a certain side's 'national interest' without the two big teams having to fight it out directly.

Russia is the main reason that America/NATO has to 'justify' military campaigns. If Russia was not present as an ally of Syria, the west could just go in and 'do the job' and take Assad out. But international politics dictates that if the west wants regime change (which translates to control of a nation for their own 'national interests'), then there needs to be international justification.

NATO can't just bomb Syria because Russia would not accept it. This is why we saw the 'rebels' being funded in Libya and now too Syria. The escalating violence, especially when the government forces fight back is used as a reason to start a military campaign under the 'Right To Protect'. NATO and Russia are fighting a geopolitical battle on an international scale, the tragedy being it is the people who happen to live in these nations that suffer as a result.

So I'm well aware there are two sides to what is going on. I understand that to Russia, Syria has importance. That's why Russia arms the Syrian army and government.

With all that said, if we placed the actions of NATO nations and Russia on some weighing scales, I highly doubt they would balance out.

Feel free to correct me but at this present time and throughout the entire 21st century so far, it has been America and her NATO allies that have been easily the most aggressive in trying to expand their influence and control in the world. Can we list anything that even comes remotely close in terms of Russia waging wars as has American and her allies? Iraq, Afghan and Libya are already ticked off, Syria is being tackled now and Iran is almost certainly on this agenda as well.

From Russia's point of view, they have every right to arm the Assad regime to prevent regime change. If they didn't do so, America would already have control of another nation in the region. America and NATO are scooping up control of the middle east region. Not only that, they are using some of the most evil tactics to justify what they are doing- only recently America pledged $40 million to hep fund the 'rebels' in Syria. We know from reports that a good portion of the FSA is Al Qaeda, so it is clear that the policy makers do not value human life whatsoever when it comes to implementing their agenda. Nor do they have the benefit of the Syrian people at heart- they just want as much chaos as is possible in Syria, they are even instigating cross border violence on this road to military intervention.

If we look to the media and keep in mind this 'cold war style' battle between America and Russia, the news agencies provide all the answers we need. A big part of waging these wars is propaganda. If we look at 'Russia Today', they are constantly reporting their propaganda against the west. Sadly, they don't have to try to hard to make America and NATO look to be the bad guys because THEY ARE funding rebels to destabilise the country and fight the regime and they have already waged two large scale wars this century already!

Next time you watch the American MSM, Russia is rarely mentioned in the reports. Considering what is at the core of this geopolitical battle, you would think the MSM would be in overdrive with propaganda against Russia but this is not the case. The western MSM is simply continuing to push the idea that Syrian forces are killing civilians, they will keep this up until the violence escalates into militaty intervention. This says a lot because 'Russia Today' can point out the flaws in American foreign policy and what they are really doing, yet at the moment, the western MSM has nothing on Russia.

Another way of addressing this point is to ask, if Russia had been waging these deceitful wars, then surely the American MSM would be in propaganda heaven? But they haven't, so therefore ask yourself, why is this the case? The answer should be self explanatory.

Yes, Russia is arming the Syrian army. But why should Russia sit back and allow what happened to Libya happen in Syria? The reason the west is quiet regards to propaganda against Russia is down to the fact that Russia has every right to support Assad in Syria, because not doing so would result in a key geopolitical nation falling into the hands of America/NATO.

If you are going to reply to this thread, please refrain from insults and let's try and actually discuss this properly.



edit on 15-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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One place to look is Bahrain and compare it to Syria
In Syria Russia supports the regime, NATO the rebels.
NATO supplies these rebels with arms, munitions and training thus making it a bloody, drawn out, internal conflict
Now look at Bahrain, again suffering from a similar problem over the last 19 months.
Riots, violence, uprising
However the US thus NATO supports this regime and as such provides for them ( and has largely kept the events out of MSN)
Do we see Russia equipping and training the Bahrainian uprising ........no..........should they ?.........well that depends
If they already were the MSN and NATO would be shouting about it
If they were .....how would it be any different to what NATO is doing in Syria ( even though MSN would sell it as being )

....kinda can't help but see NATO/US as the bad guys here and Russia as playing by the rules
edit on 15-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added
edit on 15-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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I totally agree with the OP, a small correction though: They're not only after Russia, but China too. The circle is getting tight around both of those countries. In the meantime, Russia and China made great progress in South-America.

I have this strange feeling that we will see the end of that geopolitical game in the next 5-10 years - hopefully still alive.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


since the end of the soviet union, the lack of balance in world affairs has led to wars by nato, or if you prefer it's master the usa.

imo, these wars and the suffering they cause has as much to do with the special interest groups in the usa endlessly pushing for more spending so they can make more profits for the military industrial complex.

with the fall of the soviet union, there was a chance for peaceful relations with russia and china and nato, but the western warmongers want endless wars for profit.

the unholy alliance of pro war religeous cults in the usa allied with the war industry and their evil political allies make any peace impossible.

rommey wants to build 15 war ships a year and 3 new submarines!, increase defense spending by 20%.
the only hope i see is the bankrupcy of the usa might bring the warmongers under control, but it will take
a while.
the soviet union brought their troops home in the 1990s, the french in the 1950s after facing bankruptcy.

lets hope the american people are freed from the burden of this imperialism, and that the killing of hundreds of thousands around the world can come to an end.

with the american congress being one of the most dysfunctional democratic institution of all times these past two years, it is arrogance to see them wanting to run the world.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Neocrusader
One place to look is Bahrain and compare it to Syria
In Syria Russia supports the regime, NATO the rebels.
NATO supplies these rebels with arms, munitions and training thus making it a bloody, drawn out, internal conflict
Now look at Bahrain, again suffering from a similar problem over the last 19 months.
Riots, violence, uprising
However the US thus NATO supports this regime and as such provides for them ( and has largely kept the events out if MSN)
Do we see Russia equipping and training the Bahrainian uprising ........no..........should they ?.........well that depends
If they already were the MSN and NATO would be shouting about it
If they were .....how would it be any different to what NATO is doing in Syria ( even though MSN would sell it as being )

....kinda can't help but see NATO/US as the bad guys here and Russia as playing by the rules
edit on 15-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added


Well that is exactly what I am referring to regards the media.

If Russia was funding rebels in Bahrain, the media would pounce on it!

The fact of the matter is, if Russia was sending rebels into Israel as the west is doing in Syria, America and NATO would declare war.

This is the situation the world is in- but how long can Russia play this containment game, appeasing the aggressive actions of America and NATO? It can't last, the world needs balance and TPTB are pushing Russia into a corner- if Syria goes, next stop Iran then where does it stop?

If you read the Rebuilding America's Defenses from the PNAC, that document discusses quite blatantly how the 21st century should be used by America to scoop up as much control as possible in the aftermath of the cold war and before nations such as Russia or China build up military forces to compete.

We're seeing this play out, and this appeasment, because that is what it is, will have to come to an end.



edit on 15-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


I agree entirely

However there are certain events currently playing out against NATO, instigated by China and Russia, some of which I'm sure your aware of, however it's only a matter of time before things go loud between the US/Russia/China

My question is this
Will the citizens of the US support, listen to or even allow foreign criticism........and even intervention on American soil against the criminals in power
Or will blind nationalism and pride ignore international evidence and outcries .......and just end up with the sheeple crying USA,USA,USA

I mean come on .......even with ALL you've heard and learnt from ATS .......if Russia was to come out and PROVE some of these things
Would you be happy with sanctions against America ?
How's about UN or Russian intervention to instigate regime change ?

Would you support it ? Or despite your knowlege and feelings toward your gov .....still support them



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Wonderer2012
 


I agree entirely

However there are certain events currently playing out against NATO, instigated by China and Russia, some of which I'm sure your aware of, however it's only a matter of time before things go loud between the US/Russia/China

My question is this
Will the citizens of the US support, listen to or even allow foreign criticism........and even intervention on American soil against the criminals in power
Or will blind nationalism and pride ignore international evidence and outcries .......and just end up with the sheeple crying USA,USA,USA

I mean come on .......even with ALL you've heard and learnt from ATS .......if Russia was to come out and PROVE some of these things
Would you be happy with sanctions against America ?
How's about UN or Russian intervention to instigate regime change ?

Would you support it ? Or despite your knowlege and feelings toward your gov .....still support them


Good questions, I think no matter what happens, we the people, are nothing but pawns. Personally, I believe this current world situation has been planned many years in advance.

I highly doubt the majority of the politicians truly know what is going on.

To answer your question, if regime change came to the USA, you would have to support the government, what would the alternative be? My problem with government is what they do to other nations, at home, we haven't got much to complain about compared to places like Korea or Pakistan!



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by Wonderer2012
 




Without doubt

We as people plan tomorrow, next week, next year ....for our retirement
The people at the top ....those really in charge .........plan for decades even generations ahead.
But then ....no plan survives contact with the enemy.....
Meaning, everyone else has their own plans, that interfere with yours.
Yours interfere with theirs, and thus your plan is ever evolving

I doubt what the earth is now like is how it was envisaged 50 years ago by these PTB
But then the US UN Russia China have what is essentially their own PTB to some degree
All with the same plan .......world domination, one world gov, NWO ......problem is .....they all have a different idea of what that is and how to go about it

So no most politicians are not aware and even those that are, most only get to see a small picture although to them it looks very big

But I can kinda understand this way of doing things ( an overarching secret gov )....as I said .....we as people struggle to plan for next year and live for the day......with fresh leaders taking the helm every 3 years.......well come on ......we wouldn't have made it this far ! Or nothing would ever get done ! This is why we don't have any true democracy.
But sorry I digress, definitely for another thread

But on to your answer to my question

And there in lies the problem
Even with what you know, your thread, your subsequent posts, even though you frequent this site and know of some of the things that go on, not just around the world but at home also, if the UN majority said 'enough is enough USA we are setting embargoes on your oil, until your gov stands down, if your gov fails to stand down for its war crimes, torture, crimes against humanity ect we will instigate its removal' you'd still stand next to your gov ?

So ........how far do you need to get pushed ?.......that's the next question ?
Or sorry lol are we going a bit away from topic ?
edit on 15-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: Corrected
edit on 15-10-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto



posted on Oct, 19 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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One person we all know believes that Terrorist are Anti-Colonialist Freedom Fighters. He seems to embrace Socialism, and the like. He told Russia to be patient and he would have more room to wiggle in the future. You know who I'm talking about. Russian policy will without a doubt go back into the Reagan years. Yep Cold War all over again. We are watching the Gog and Magog prophecy mentioned in Revelations of the KJV bible. All those Anti-God bloggers can relax because if this is biblical on what we are witnessing then arguing with me would be useless due to the fact when that day comes all knees will bow before the Lord. So lets just keep the bashing out of it, and see that we have a serious issue with alot of things in the world. We should stand strong against some of the Russian policies or else they will keep seeking our destruction. One thing can solve alot of this worlds mess is America standing together as one, and that folks has been lacking for various reasons for quite some time.





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