Was Moses Wiccan?

Well... I dont know but while your at "M", just ask the same question about Mohammed.

No, because Moses never existed. If much of at least the early part of the bible is fiction; Patriarchs are mythical, as was the Exodus and Conquest and much of Moses’ biography was tied to events that actually never took place, then how on earth could he have existed in the form that’s in the bible? Perhaps he was some local town leader whose existence has been hugely embellished by generations of story tellers.

reply to post by ucantcme


careful not to mistake "honor" with "worship"

I thought these verses and links might be helpful to this discussion:

Jeremiah 7:16-19

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

Jeremiah 44:25-27

25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

26 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the Lord, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord God liveth.

27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

According to archaeologists, this "queen of heaven" that was being worshiped in Israel was Asherah.

BILL DEVER: I discovered a Hebrew inscription of the eighth century BCE. And it gives the name of the deceased, and says, "blessed may X be by Yahweh," that's good biblical Hebrew. But it says, "by Yahweh and his Asherah." And Asherah is the name of the old Canaanite mother goddess, the consort of the El, the principal deity of the Canaanite pantheon.

DAVID LEVIN: So why would a Hebrew inscription mention Yahweh with another diety?

BILL DEVER: Well, in popular religion, they were a pair. I think Asherah was widely venerated in ancient Israel. If you look at Second Kings 23, which describes the reforms of King Josiah in the late seventh century, he talks about purging the temple of all the cult paraphernalia of Asherah. So the popular cult so-called folk religion even penetrated the temple in Jerusalem. This is the extent to which the old Canaanite cults prevailed despite the ideal in the Hebrew Bible of monotheism. That's the ideal. The reality was very different.

www.pbs.org...

More on Asherah...

en.wikipedia.org...

As for the angels, many of them also became fallen when they tried to get the Israelites to worship them as well, as told in the book of Enoch. This is why most of it was wiped out and worship of the one true God followed.

No but he did invent the moonwalk

Originally posted by windword
The Dead Sea Scrolls are collection of biblical manuscripts from what we now call the Hebrew Bible. The texts were found in 1947 in a cave in an area called Qumran, in the west bank of Palestine.

I meant to point this out to you in our previous conversation, but I recently read a theory that the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't necessarily Essene documents (since some of the stuff in there clearly reflects a different philosophy,) but rather was the doing of some unknown person from Jerusalem who grabbed what they could out of a religious library there as the city was being destroyed by the Romans in 70AD and buried them in the cave to be retrieved once the coast was clear.

As to the thread question, as Wicca is a recent invention, no, Moses was not a Wiccan, unless he had access to Abraham's... well, you know what I'm going to say

No he was not "wiccan" wicca is a new religion that at its earliest comes from the late 50's. Paganism is a type of religion, not a religion. Moses was Jewish...

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by windword
The Dead Sea Scrolls are collection of biblical manuscripts from what we now call the Hebrew Bible. The texts were found in 1947 in a cave in an area called Qumran, in the west bank of Palestine.

I meant to point this out to you in our previous conversation, but I recently read a theory that the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't necessarily Essene documents (since some of the stuff in there clearly reflects a different philosophy,) but rather was the doing of some unknown person from Jerusalem who grabbed what they could out of a religious library there as the city was being destroyed by the Romans in 70AD and buried them in the cave to be retrieved once the coast was clear.

I have had the same thoughts myself, about the desperation that must have occurred as the people of the time perceived the approaching horror, doom and gloom of the Jewish wars. What a dreadful day for humanity.

A few years ago, I had the privilege of attending a presentation of the Dead Sea Scrolls at one of the Museums at Balboa Park, San Diego. They showed us a film re-enactment of the scribes housing, and how they taught the initiates by having them copy scriptures, tediously. They did assert that all of the Dead Sea documents came out of the Qumran community. But I don't have a problem in believing that documents from elsewhere were brought there, for safe keeping, and then stashed along with the others, in a desperate attempt of preservation..

That being said, the document does echo the content of the the Book of Enoch. I think it is a beautiful and moving text, insinuating how life and worship might have been different, and reconciles some of my doubt that looms around the God that handed us the 10 Commandments.

The text states that these commandments were hidden away in the heart of Moses, and were never to be written in language, so we have to assume then that the text is only a whisper of the true commandments the author was hinting at. But I am convinced that God originally wished us to worship him though joy and celebration

As to the thread question, as Wicca is a recent invention, no, Moses was not a Wiccan, unless he had access to Abraham's... well, you know what I'm going to say

No time machine necessary, my friend. Wicca is simply a repackaging of a very old tradition. I'm not Wiccan, and really pretty ignorant as to their rituals, but I'm pretty sure that most Wiccans would not be offended by the prospect of a morning and evening ritual of communing with the angels of earth and of heaven.

reply to post by Dnepropetrovsk

Moses was Jewish...

Was he? What was the structure of the "Jewish" religion while Moses was growing up in the Pharaoh's palace in Egypt? Who were the Jewish priests?

Isn't Moses credited with the authorship of the first 5 books of the Bible. Didn't God give the "Law" to Moses? I think Moses was not Jewish, but Hebrew, and he presented the first inklings of what would later be called "Jewish."

No.

But the female concepts of divinity were recognized by the hebrew tribes, and would have been a common concept to anyone who had been living in Egypt. So everyone would have understood and expected feminine principles in their religious context during that time. It wouldn't have been considered odd like now, it would have been considered self-apparent and understood. Just a cultural norm.

Originally posted by thePharaoh
MOSES WAS RAISED BY ELITE EGYPTIANS

IN EGYPT THE EARTH WAS A MALE GOD...not female

And he was known to cavort with a fire of God that talked to him. Which has been identified as many different sources, but Jewish scholars will often suggest this entity was the Shekinah. A female.

Egyptian pantheon primacy was moving away after stagnating. The male-female principles are found in all religious symbolism, and when primacy wans the symbolic value moves to the another gender-duality. The second set of divinities is Geb-Nut (Earth-Sky, Male-Female), the subsequent set are sets of male-female that are not so. The subsequent sets of male-female aeons are less precise.

The set before Geb-Nut are Male-Female, Empty-Water.

As to the Pagan pre-Christian Europe - people grouped up their deities when they encountered each other. So two archetypes would be mashed together as an acknowledgement that they were identifying the same concept, or two pantheons would be put together. As the Norse did with their proto-Hindu proto-Greek mash up.

For example, Dionysus-Dushares, GreekGod-LocalGod name would be created.

Moses...was a politician.
Lets say the Bible is accurate...witch is highly unlikely....but whatever..
There is an all powerful God in the Bible...yet the same "all powerful" God only appears to Moses, in the form of a burning bush...A burning bush....that doesn't sound very impressive to me...but whatever ....
Then Moses goes up a mountain to receive the 10 commandments...of course all this is out of view from everyone else....kind of like what a magician would do...or a con artist....
Again whatever....
And the end up is that Moses and the Jews then wander into the desert for 40 years...
Hardly an overwhelming victory over faro.... but you would think it was a victory the way the Bible puts it.

This isnt me saying there isnt a God...I have my own ideas about all that..and i wont go into them here...and for all I know the bible is all legit...just my opinions.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Dnepropetrovsk

 

Moses was Jewish...

Moses was not Jewish, but Hebrew,

www.thefreedictionary.com...
He·brew (hbr)
n.
1. A member or descendant of a Semitic people claiming descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; an Israelite; a Jew.

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
Moses...was a politician.
Lets say the Bible is accurate...witch is highly unlikely....but whatever..
There is an all powerful God in the Bible...yet the same "all powerful" God only appears to Moses, in the form of a burning bush...A burning bush....that doesn't sound very impressive to me...but whatever ....
Then Moses goes up a mountain to receive the 10 commandments...of course all this is out of view from everyone else....kind of like what a magician would do...or a con artist....
Again whatever....
And the end up is that Moses and the Jews then wander into the desert for 40 years...
Hardly an overwhelming victory over faro.... but you would think it was a victory the way the Bible puts it.

This isnt me saying there isnt a God...I have my own ideas about all that..and i wont go into them here...and for all I know the bible is all legit...just my opinions.

Yes, Moses was a politician and the results of his works were less than apparent in his own lifetime. A look around at the demographics today would suggest that if you are measuring it only in his lifetime, you've probably missed something.

reply to post by windword


Just because there is a book in the Dead Sea Scrolls called "book of Moses" does not mean it really is. Also, the 12 tribes of Israel preserved and determined what books were officially the "Word of God" and they did not include this book. Therefore, it is not the Word of God. It's that simple.

Besides common sense tells you that if Moses wrote against witchcraft in the Torah, which he did, why would he say it's fine in this book? Is Moses confused? Is God confused? Also in this book "by Moses" the Law is equated with God and God with the Law. The Law IS God in this "book of Moses". In the Torah, God wrote the bible but God's Word is not viewed as God and God as His word. The word proceeds forth from God and is His Word but it is not God Himself.

Neither Moses nor God are confused. Here is the solution, God communicating through Moses by way of the Torah or first 5 books of the bible, sets rules against using witchcraft and against worshipping other gods. This "book of Moses" was not written by Moses but someone else (obviously a pagan) wrote it and attached Moses name so it would be accepted. Wow, what a surprise...as if people would accept a book just because it had Moses name attached to it!! That would never happen!?!? Lol........

There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,


Deu 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.


Deu 18:12 For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Let me clarify,as there seems to be some semitic semantics going on

Abraham then Isaac then Jacob

Jacob(Israel) has 12 sons- one was Judah one was Levi
Moses was a Israelite- A Hebrew from the tribe of Levi (not Judah)
While technically not from Judah, its understandable he can be considered 'jewish' by many

The term 'jewish' when applied to Moses causes conflict because it implies Moses would affirm the faith of judaism. Muslims think he is a Muslim, and Christians consider him Christian

* added note- Sorcerers for centuries consider Moses one like themselves because he defeated Jannes and Jambres (The magicians of Pharoah). Each of the 3 Abrahamic religions would deny the claim Moses used magic vigorously,as they testify God accomplished those miracles.

reply to post by Aeons


True dat...haha....The thing is this...The only reason people know about the Bible and Moses..is because from an early age we are indoctrinated into it...by adults...not by God. Its part of our programming.

I have found that the most effective self help books....are the ones that give advice that is already innate within people...in other words telling people what they already know is true...either that or selling people what people wish to be true AKA the secret.....

I think much of what is in the Bible was already innate to people..."thou shall not kill"..."thou shall not commit adultery"..."thou shall not steal" etc, etc....Even before the bible if you did any of these "sins" you would have had repercussions...if you cheated before the bible, your woman would have left you...if you killed, then someone would seek vengeance on you same as if you stole...etc, etc...its commonsense that these things would bring you no good fortune...so it didnt take Moses and the Bible to educate everyone to commonsense, unless people truly were ignorant before the bible...and if they were that ignorant...the pyramids wouldn't have been built etc etc etc..because you need a stable population in order for a civilization to develop and thrive...and yet we have major civilizations way before the Bible.

All of the "pagan" practices, including Wicca, are derived from the one and only original Wisdom Tradition. Moses was an initiate... that much is incredibly obvious even from what is written in the Bible.... he was trained in the Egyptian Mystery Schools. The entire story reeks of Metaphysics.

You're going to find all kinds of similarities among them because they contain the truth... that we are all potential gods evolving towards The One and the key is to unite the male and female energies.

Yes, the ideas remain and end up with different costumes and dressings. The civilizations prior stagnanted or got themselves wiped out. So the ideas are deseminated into new groups, which are then understood in ways that the new group can process them with their own cultural understanding.

Once one group gets to the point that they try to own all of the "common-sense" ideas for their own purposes, the bits of the human story the story moves away from them. Over and over again. So the ideas in the Bible/Torah are the same ideas as those in the prior religions, and their downfalls are the same downfalls as each subsequent one.

You'd think that the lesson there was apparent over time. And if you did think that, you'd be terribly wrong.

reply to post by Elsha


There is no witchcraft in these texts.

reply to post by GeneralMishka


no Christians do not consider Moses Christian. They consider him a saint of the First Testament ( the Torah, prophets, psalms and writings) period. You are write however in that only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin were considered Jews while the other ten tribes were considered Israelites. Still they handed down only one holy book which was the one we have today...