Turkey - Syria Conflict

Since there are a bunch of Threads regarding only some topics I thought of making a Thread on the whole Conflict.

After the over a week of near border shelling on both sides, Syria declared today a no-fly zone for turkish planes.
This was after Turkey grounded a Syrian passenger plane, because the plane allegedly carried Russian ammunition
Turkey: Syrian plane was carrying ammunition


The Syrian plane

"Equipment and ammunitions that were being sent from a Russian agency ... to the Syrian Defense Ministry," were confiscated from the jetliner, Erdogan told reporters in Ankara. "Their examination is continuing and the necessary (action) will follow."

Turkey's answer

Turkey Moves Tanks to Hilltops Overlooking Syria

Turkey deployed tanks and missile-defense systems on hilltops overlooking Syria last week, the state-run Anatolia news agency said, hours after Turkish jet fighters confronted a Syrian helicopter that flew close to the border. Turkey has threatened to target Syrian forces if they pose a security risk.

Bloomberg

And today

Turkish Navy put on high alert

Turkey has put its naval taskforce in the Mediterranean on high alert and sent missile-carrying frigates and motor boats to Aksaz, Iskenderun, Mersin, Antalya and other naval bases, the Hurriyet newspaper reports. Earlier, a higher state of alert was announced in the Air Force.

Turkey closes airspace to Syrian civilian flights after similar move by Damascus

Ankara has placed a ban on Syrian Airlines flying into Turkish airspace, after a diplomatic row that began when Turkey seized cargo from a Syrian civilian plane it forced to land in Ankara. Earlier, Damascus closed its airspace to Turkish airlines.

Russia Today

I don't think that this conflict will take long for it to became a war.

Looking forward to a discussion based on facts

The link about the Syrian ban on turkish flights

The Guardian

I dave it two weeks about a week ago.....i doubt itll take many more "provocations"
Turkey is gonna start the NATO Ball......
Syria, Lebanon< and Iran it is........with a little Cyprus on the side for turkey as a reward?

technically, if Syria is invaded by Nato allied Turkey, does tha carry over to all Nato allies? IE what about Syria doing some chemical warfare stuff with American or other nato bases in the Area?They do have a few scuds maybe....They also promised to bring them out if invaded by anyone......

reply to post by stirling


Turkey will be the scapegoat and the first one to get a big slap. And then NATO will take it from there

Three Turkish soldiers wounded in clashes on Syrian border.

Three Turkish soldiers were wounded along the Syrian border last night amid clashes between security forces and smugglers in , Doğan news agency reported.

The smugglers, who were carrying tea and cigarettes, fired at the soldiers on duty at a border post in eastern province of Hatay's Kırıkhan district as they were passing over the border.

This is just ridiculous...

Tea smugglers?? For real??

reply to post by Hellas


little known fact
Syrians are voracious
Tea Baggers...

didn't another war
kick off with some tea baggers

Originally posted by spoonbender
reply to post by Hellas

 

little known fact
Syrians are voracious
Tea Baggers...

didn't another war
kick of with some tea baggers

LOL!!! that made my day!!

Turkey closes airspace to Syrian civilian flights after similar move by Damascus

Ankara has placed a ban on Syrian Airlines flying into Turkish airspace, after a diplomatic row that began when Turkey seized cargo from a Syrian civilian plane it forced to land in Ankara. Earlier, Damascus closed its airspace to Turkish airlines.

Russia Today
Hurriyet

Well, this is certainly speeding up and becoming more worrisome by the minute. This is now officially in "escalation".

Hellas, can I recommend something? I know it's your thread and all, so tell me to sod off if you like. Can we make this thread a non-partisan discussion and can I suggest a mention of that in the OP?

It's just that every other discussion descends into an anti/pro Assad thread with speculation over the involvement of the CIA etc... I think we need one just to track what's ACTUALLY happening and the likely scenarios, without all the random noise of who is the bad guy and who is causing what based on assumptions and theories.

I would just like somewhere where we can discuss what is actually happening and the plausible scenarios that may play out as a result of it, rather than the thread being taken over by links to Debka, Infowars and flooded with Youtube videos of people ranting about the CIA.

reply to post by detachedindividual



I'm with you on that! That's why I didn't post any debka links etc. And you're more than welcome to participate in this thread. I don't own it after all

I'll update the OP, thanks for that!

Turkey dismisses security dialog with Syria

Turkey's Foreign Minister has called on Syria to resolve their internal problems before any further dialog on security issues with Ankara is considered.

Turkey's Foreign Minister however wrote this off as "worthless," stressing that "Syria's statement means nothing to us."

source

Seems that somebody has some issues...

This is concerning to me...

However, Syria has said it is ready to set up a joint committee to oversee security on the border. Its foreign ministry said it had been discussing with diplomats from Russia, a key ally, the idea of a Syrian-Turkish security committee to avoid misunderstandings at the border, which would establish a "mechanism for surveillance of the border while respecting national sovereignty"

Source - BBC

This would not be viewed with anything but suspicion. The implication is that Syria would invite a Russian force into its territory.

The only way I believe this kind of outside intervention would be acceptable is if it is international, not a Syrian/Russian "security committee". I understand that it might be considered hypocritical to condemn this idea when the US and UK have a presence in a neighboring nation on the border, and when Turkey is a NATO state with forces within it, but they are outside of the border, not being invited by the aggressor within the country.

IMO this is a worrying development. If Russian forces of any kind are invited into Syria for such a purpose then it can only lead to an escalation of tensions between allies. I hope Russia does the smart thing, and either refuses this idea (understanding that it could lead to further tensions) or demands that it be a truly international presence.

In an ideal world, any involvement on the borders of Syria and its neighbors would involve a truly international presence. But we all know this is not an ideal world.

Of course, I could be overestimating this proposal and it could be nothing more than a body to oversee events on the border, with no "boots on the ground" at all? However, as Syria would undoubtedly love to have Russia more involved as a defensive ally, I doubt that a theoretical presence would be what they intend.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Nothing in that article mentioned Russian forces nor a joint Turkish/Syrian force,read it again,yes a committee.
Your bias is obvious as you are against outside Russian mediation,while you turn a blind eye nor mention the NATO armed forces that are active in and around Syria
Please don't spew bs about keeping it an unbiased non-partisan, Anti/pro Assad thread when you clearly choose to ignore the facts.
Syria can at anytime they want, legally invite Russian oversight of a joint Turkish/Syrian commitee,i think what Syria is doing here is great,it's an attempt at quelling the violence along the border,and keeping those responsible in check..what is being expressed here is that the Syrian Govt has no interest in engaging with Turkey,is peace really your concern?

reply to post by detachedindividual


Russian Fighter Jets are already flying over Cyprus, waiting for a provocative move by turkey.

And I don't think that they're just threatening like turkey.

Putin's Responds to Turkish Air Piracy, 30 Sukhoi-35 to patrol Turkish Coast
www.liveleak.com...
www.godlikeproductions.com...
This is the biggest move to date of Russia's support for the Syrian Govt.
Now Turkey has to avoid Syrian AND Cyprus airspace.

reply to post by all2human


Thirty?!?! That's a few squadrons worth. Talk about overkill. Sounds like a waste of gas money if true. Sounds far fetched because as, far as the public knows, the SU-35s have not even been delivered yet.

March 23/12: Russian setback. Russia’s own VVS moves to buy 30 SU-30SM fighters, for delivery by 2015. These planes are a version of the canard-winged, thrust-vectoring SU-30MKI/M variant that was developed for India, and has since been exported to Algeria and Malaysia. Which raises the question: why didn’t Russia buy 30 more SU-35S fighters? A RIA Novosti article offers one explanation:

“Irkut has been churning out these planes for 10 years thanks to its completely streamlined production method. This means that its products are of high quality, relatively cheap… and will be supplied on time.

There is a contract for 48 SU-35s, but the production rate doesn’t appear to be very advanced yet. If Bogdanov’s analysis is correct, the SU-35 could have a problem. It would mean that more SU-30SMs become a very attractive near-term choice for the next few years, as Russia’s rearmament program kicks into gear.

Source: www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

Seems like a tense situation over there. It's just a spark away from being more than a regional conflict dragging NATO and others into the quagmire.

Here's hope to cooler heads prevailing

reply to post by majesticgent


To me this seems a done deal. They (NATO) are just trying to provoke Syria to do the "first step" I guess.

Video shows Turkey treating injured Syrian insurgents

A new video footage shows that Turkey, a key member of an international coalition attempting to destabilize Syria, continues to support the foreign-backed insurgents fighting against the government in Damascus.

PressTV

reply to post by Hellas


The looming question is will Russia, or Iran do anything in defense of Syria. It's already purported that Iran is backing Syria's army loyal to Assad, and Russia has a naval base there.

I still don't see Russia sending one of its newest fighters to patrol the border because of Turkish airspace infractions; especially when Turkey said they would stop.

reply to post by majesticgent


Iran is obliged under there defence treaty to come to Syria's defence,and i guess time will tell if Russia will engage with NATO...but i doubt it militarily ,i believe Russia is showing NATO countries that it will be more involved if they choose to increasingly meddle with Syria.
A huge majority of Turks do not want to be a-party to the conflict in Syria(esp the Kurds)Russia is showing them there will be reprocussions.