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Christians: What's your relationship with the dead?

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posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 07:42 AM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Question is do you believe there is a non human version of God? What form will such a God take?

posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 10:06 AM

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
I have shown in this particular instance that to doubt the authority of God now leds someone to conclude that the creation account is BS that the stories in the Old Testament are BS that when God gives clears commandments to do this or that in the NT they are now ignored....why? Well if the Bible got it wrong on the issue of the state of the dead then they could have got it wrong on other things so that means you can pretty much make up your own religion (or just follow anyone who claims to have the keys to Heaven and seemingly backs it up by having lots of money and power to boot).

What FlyersFan and you (and all others in the opposition camp on this issue) don't realize is that it will come down to keeping the Sabbath or not (when the antichrist comes on the scene). 'The wages of sign is death'. It is not so much a day that is of significance, it is that the issue of the Sabbath tests pretty darn completely someones 'belief in' God.

Since you think it so vital that the Sabbath be observed on Saturday, I assume that you also follow all the restrictions on what can be done that day, eh? Basic Sabbath Rules. No cooking, cleaning, carrying anything, lighting fires, turning on lights, no sorting, no laundry, no tying or untying, no sewing, no writing or erasing.

You and your "Sabbath is all that matters" make a joke of God's love, mercy and compassion. If the wages of sin are death, what are the wages of putting God in your own personal little box and telling him what he needs to judge people on?

posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 01:31 PM

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

You seem a bit delusional and self aggrandizing with your "you have been maneuvered" statements, but...

What FlyersFan is pointing out has nothing to do with the Bible, but with the method of argument.

For example:

Me: I am the world's greatest guitarist.
You: By what authority do you say that?
Me: What, the word of the world's greatest guitarist isn't good enough for you?

It's called circular logic.

Naw man, circular logic is saying Sun-Day worship is the Mark of the Beast because it's the day of Sol Invictus and then someone advocates Satur-Day worship which is Saturn's Day instead of Sun-Day worship.

Make me freaking gag dood with that circular logic.

Saturday is not the day Sabbath was held on, when Israel's Sabbath was instituted, it went by the phases of the moon not the days of the week, that's why they needed 2 credible witnesses observing the moon to testify the day sabbath began, and the 2 witnesses were called to the assembly and a "trial" to substantiate their credibility ensued to determine they were not the apostates.

posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:09 PM
Dear FlyersFan,

I'm going to add the following information for you to check out in regards to the day of rest and how Lucifer is going to counterfeit in the Tribulation. From the following you are going to gauge that, as with the counferfeit Jesus, Satan is also going to have his counterfeit day of rest/worship, and his counterfeit marking of God. By attending the counterfeit's mandatory day of worship, which is not the true Sabbath, people will have damned themselves.

( This is a thread I made on the true Sabbath

The following snippet is from page 72 of this PDF:

[color=crimson]The Antichrist and the
mark of the beast :

[color=gold]On August 29, 1985, under the authority of
the Pope, 16 articles were written which justify
the events predicted in Revelation 13 : 16-18.
Because I personally took part in the meeting
which prepared for the publishing of these articles,
I will give you now the translation of the list
of these 16 articles, taken from the minutes of
this meeting, signed by Pope John-Paul II :

Article 1 : No one will be able to send a letter
by mail without the mark.

Article 2 : No one will be hired by a company
without the mark.

Article 3 : No child will be able to study if his
parents do not have the mark.

Article 4 : All armaments will be placed
under the authority of a unique worldwide organisation,
and no one will be able to buy or sell
them without the mark.

Article 5 : No one will be able to buy nor sell
food products, nor be a farmer, without this

Article 6 : No one will be able to make bank
transactions without this mark.

Article 7 : If someone doesn’t accept or goes
against these articles, he will be severely punished,
even up to the death penalty.

Article 8 : No one will be able to travel

Article 9 : All space exploration vessels will
be placed under the authority of this worldwide

Article 10 : No one will be able to import or
export anything without having this mark.
Article 11 : There will a unique currency,
universally employed.

Article 12 : [color=palevioletred]There will be a unique Church,
and all the members of this worldwide church will
worship on the same day, Sunday.

Article 13 : Poverty and destitution will be
eliminated. The standard of living in developing
nations will be improved.

Article 14 : No one will be able to hunt or fish
without this mark.

Article 15 : Every transportation company
worldwide will be particularly well treated.

Article 16 : No one will be able to receive
hospital care without having this mark.

I think God has been merciful with the people who sincerely believe they are following the true Sabbath day on up to now. But in the Tribulation when the Antichrist is here and the worlwide mandatory day of worship is here, If they enter one of those churches and the false Sabbath day, it will cost them their soul for good without an chance of redemption. - that's' my current understanding.

Prophecy re the original Hebrew Name of Jesus Christ and the true Sabbath:

[color=gold]Nothing has changed. Because I honored the name of Jesus Christ. Because I anointed the name of Jesus Christ. Because I saved in the name of Jesus Christ. Because I delivered and did signs, wonders and miracles in the name of Jesus Christ. Because I still do it in the name of Jesus Christ does not mean that you are not to know HIS True Hebrew Name. You will and you are held accountable for what you know. Because I allowed all this time for you to assemble and call Sunday MY Sabbath day, I did the same thing, I allowed it. It was not MY will, I allowed it. But in the Great Tribulation satan is going to show you how he is going to counterfeit. [ [color=crimson]Beware the Sunday Churches]

For again I say, even the very wealthy evangelists who know this truth have sold out this truth, have compromised this truth, will lead you right into the arms of the anti-messiah, the son of satan. And they will say, "That's Jesus Christ, that's your Messiah, he's come. He's come and now peace is all over this earth, don't worry about Hell." Why can't you see? They don't want to counterfeit ME. MY Name is YAH. King James will pay. King James has paid when he blotted out MY Son's Sacred Name. READ! READ! READ! Study and show thyself approved. It was not always King James, read the Holy Manuscripts. Read where the Hebrew translations are. Read where even the Aramaic know HIS Name. WHY? WHY? WHY will you not believe?

edit on 25-10-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-10-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 25 2012 @ 09:43 PM
Has ATS been offering half price memberships to Seventh Day Adventists lately? The place seems well rife with them and their oddball single issue.

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 03:46 AM
reply to post by adjensen

Since you think it so vital that the Sabbath be observed on Saturday,

I am merely a reminder for you to follow the Bible that you have overlooked or misunderstood.

Isaiah 56:6,7
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isaiah 58:13,14
"If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

The fourth commandment (reaffirmed in Hebrews 4:9) is given again here in Isaiah as part of the terms of the new covenant. Do you not think it vital to enter into a new covenant relationship with God, or do you not seek salvation? Do you wish to ‘serve him, to love the name of the LORD and to worship him’…do you accept the new covenant or do you reject God ('the Word was with God and the Word was God')

adjensen, are you wishing to ever be in Heaven because guess what...

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. (23) and it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

So not only do we all gather together in the heavenly city each new moon (aka each month) to partake in the eating of the fruit of the tree of life but we also all gather together each sabbath to worship before God. Damn, I hope your attitude can change before now and then or you might not be a happy camper.

Never fear adjensen, the Sabbath was not made to be a burden...but a delight

Firstly though, let me correct the first of the false assumptions...Sabbath is not Saturday (12am-12pm), it is Sundown on the 6th day of the week to sundown on the 7th day of the week.

Leviticus 23:32
New International Version (©1984)
It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."

New Living Translation (©2007)
This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown on the tenth day."

Now lets see how the Sabbath 7th day sanctification of Genesis 2:2-3 translates into actual history (Flyersfan best look away now lest her bunk of an OT book be confirmed through actual historical evidence)

This Chart of the Week is over a hundred years old. It was prepared by Dr. William Meade Jones, a research expert in London, England. Well over a hundred languages prove that the week, everywhere, has seven days;—and that, in most languages, the native word for the seventh day is "Sabbath" (which means "rest" or "rest day") or "rest day."

Jones, a well-known British researcher, decided that since Scripture clearly shows that the Bible Sabbath was first given to mankind at the end of Creation Week, then two important facts would have had to be known throughout the ancient world: First, a fixing of the seven-day weekly cycle on a worldwide basis and, second, an ancient worldwide knowledge of the seventh-day Sabbath.
Chart of the week

Hmmm, damn....all those ancient cultures whole day system built around the Sabbath...what do you know!

Flyersfan, you can look back now.

I assume that you also follow all the restrictions on what can be done that day, eh?

Just as you assume what the Sabbath day is incorrectly you assume incorrectly here too and then again later on in your third and final point.

The true meaning of Sabbath

The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.

Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20

The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281, p. 282

How the Sabbath got a reputation of being burdensome and what it is really like and meant for
...Let's see what happened after the breaking of the first covenant

As the Jews departed from God, and failed to make the righteousness of Christ their own by faith, the Sabbath lost its significance to them. Satan was seeking to exalt himself and to draw men away from Christ, and he worked to pervert the Sabbath, because it is a sign of the power of Christ. The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions. Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.

When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.

The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.

If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.

Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.

Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.

Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p. 283, 284, 285, 286

Do you understand now what the object of your mind should be on the Sabbath adjensen....carrying out His will for your life through service, worshiping Him and specifically setting aside time to grow in your relationship with Him and your appreciation of Him. The focus isn't on what you can't do. Do what needs to be done to carry out God's will for your life. If you need to make lunch, do it. If you need to clean up after lunch, do it....then get back to more significant spiritual matters.
edit on 26-10-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 04:26 AM
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

when Israel's Sabbath was instituted, it went by the phases of the moon not the days of the week,

Please back this up with your verses and I will provide the appropriate debunking as I have commented on this issue in a previous thread post and the topic doesn't pass inspection. Unless of course you wish to watch through the relevant videos first then withdraw your statement

edit on 26-10-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 07:38 AM
reply to post by EfficientP

I am not the biggest fan of 'amightywind' myself as you can tell from the post I made on your latest thread but I do keep loose tabs on those Messianic Jews.

I would really like it if you were able to give a good account of the source of the information in the pdf file text. How did they come across it, can this information be verified through any other way or just on the word of the person saying it? That information on the 18 articles has the potential to be very explosive and powerful if it can be verified properly and introduced well. I will be keen to hear back from you (or else I will end up searching it out fully myself over the next week anyways).

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:14 AM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

So, boiled down to its essence, your claim is that it is imperative that the Sabbath be observed in the same timeframe as Orthodox Jews, thus making you a slave to the Law, but in a manner that you deem "keeping it Holy", thus lifting your own view of holiness over God's.

Not buying it, sorry. I prefer to keep all days holy, by your stated standards, and trust in God's love and Christ's sacrifice, rather than relying on the Law and some bizarre rationale for salvation by works alone (and one work, in particular, being a slave to the calendar.)

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 12:27 PM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

reply to post by EfficientP

You two don't get it ... You are clinging to a petty and unjust 'god' who supposedly smites people who love and worship Him, simply because when they do it all together, they do it on a different day than when a few others worship Him. You 7th Day Adventists are very small in number. What you are trying to say is that billions and billions of people who love and worship God are going to hell because they don't belong to your little church.

That is either extremely absurd OR that means God is a pr***.
I'm going to go with 'that is extremely absurd'.

If you want to be legalistic about supposed rules from the bible, and you want to think that the bible came straight from God himself without human filters or human error .. then go ahead. Seems to me you are strangling yourselves with it .. but if it makes you happy .. have at it.

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 06:11 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Dear FlyersFan,

I'm not a SeventhDay Adventist. I follow Shabbat. Every Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset. The Jews practice the true Sabbath.

The Catholic Church created a man-made Sabbath called " The Lord's Day" and outlawed the Jewish Sabbath a while back. If you've done some research you will understand that the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church have added rituals and stuff that is anti-scriptural and is no part in true Salvation of the soul.

They are setting people up for the counterfeit messiah as well as the counferfeit 7th day of mandatory worldwide worship for nwo.

I think the videos that I posted at the following link might help you to see things in a new perspective:

I'll post ther first two here:

edit on 26-10-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 01:19 AM
reply to post by EfficientP

I'm not a SeventhDay Adventist. I follow Shabbat. Every Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset. The Jews practice the true Sabbath.

The Catholic Church created a man-made Sabbath called " The Lord's Day" and outlawed the Jewish Sabbath a while back.

As i said above the original sabbath went by the phases of the moon, not days of the week. Not to mention the biblical calendar is off and has been off for 2000 years. With no wheatfields to determine if the wheat was Abib, leap years could not be determmined which would throw off the days of the week. In essence, in biblical time we have no idea for certain what days are what. Jewish mornings began with the rising of the moon, this is when new days began and is why 2 crediblew witnesses were required to determine what day the sabbath began.

Jesus bought us the sabbath (the Rest) at golgotha in which we were entered into a perpetual state of rest from our fleshly labors for righteousness. Jesus has become our sabbath and we are to keep every day holy to him sanf worship him everyday and walk with him 24/7.

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 06:08 AM

Originally posted by EfficientP
the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church have added rituals and stuff that is anti-scriptural and is no part in true Salvation of the soul.

The Catholics have THEIR interpretation of Christianity.
The Baptists have THEIR interpretation of Christianity.
The Methodists have THEIR interpretation of Christianity.
The 7th Day Adventists have THEIR interpretation of Christianity.

If you don't believe what the Catholics believe ... fine. So don't be Catholic. That doesn't change the FACT that the bible is flawed. It was written by men and filtered by men. It has material in it that was taken from the Summerians and Egyptians and changed to fit into Jewish history. If YOU want to think that the bible has 'all truth' .. even though the bible itself says it doesn't .. then go ahead. To quote you .. it's UNSCRIPTURAL to do that .. but if it makes you happy then go ahead.

And as Lonewolf has basically said ... in your arrogance and error you are condemning good Christians to hell because they dont' make their main day of worship the same as yours .. and yours is not even based on the Jewish calander correctly.

You are strangling yourself being legalistic .. and you are misjuding others with blind arrogance. I suggest you read the information about lunar/solar cycles that Lonewolf has posted. It totally blows apart your 'reasoning' for the Sabbath (and for condemning billions of Christians to hell).

edit on 10/27/2012 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 07:19 AM
No offence to other believers, but if you are talking to the dead then there is a problem. The dead don't speak, but tricky spirits do.

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 07:36 AM
reply to post by FlyersFan

What you are trying to say is that billions and billions of people who love and worship God are going to hell because they don't belong to your little church.

Best not say that I am trying to say because you and adjensen get what I am trying to say WRONG every single time (despite my lengthy posts...because you apparently like to read into things however way you wish to negatively slant it in your minds rather than seek guidance from the Holy Spirit on the issue).

You 7th Day Adventists are very small in number.

That doesn't stop the steady stream of Catholic and Jesuit priests we keep finding infiltrating our churches and schools trying to destroy us from the inside out over the past 80 years. Trying to destroy our faith and doctrines over and over again.

That doesn't stop the Jesuits in China counterfeiting our Adventist book on the history of the protestant reformation and end time prophecy

Pastor David Kang tells how the Chinese Jesuits have printed counterfeit copies of Ellen G. White's books in China with illegal changes. Adventists couldn't get the legal ISBN number to publish the books of Ellen G. White in China -- but it seems that they got it in Hong Kong, and published The Great Controversy Series over there. In China, the Jesuits got the legal ISBN number, and published Ellen G. White's books, and distributed them!!!! Sounds good???? Think again!!!! The books looked exactly like the ones that the Adventists had published in Hong Kong, with the same covers,& with Ellen G. White's name, but there were changes inside!!!! Sunday is called God's Sabbath, but the most startling changes were in the accounts on the Reformation. Martin Luther apparently fell in love, and since the priests couldn't marry, he revolted against the church, and started the reformation!!!! And instead of calling the Jesuits "the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery", [The Great Controversy, p. 2343], the "revised" book portrays them as wonderful evangelists that were far more effective than the reformers!!!!

oday I received and email from Jeffrey and Monica Sonnentag alerting me about a recent video posted by Pastor David Kang describing how our Ellen White books are being sold in China. The problem is that the content of said books has been apparently altered in many places in order to reflect Catholic doctrinal teachings. A good example is the reference to the creation where Sunday is presented as the day the Lord rested following his creative work. This type of glaring and daring counterfeit is almost unbelievable, but Pastor Kang has the damning evidence in his possession.

One thing is the failure to acknowledge one’s sources, which is what Mrs. White was criticized for, but another thing is to publish her books bearing her name, but with the content altered to suit her critics and enemies. This type of criminal behavior is contemptible and should be investigated and penalized. Of course, what can you expect from China where all kinds of legally protected merchandize is being illegally produced, sold, and exported!

In the “Great Controversy” book, for example, the Jesuits are described in glowing terms as successful evangelists instead of “the most cruel, unscrupulous,” religious manipulators who had no moral problem using lies and deception in order to advance and restore the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff. The video lasts about half and hour and the content is impressive, well documented, and alarming for Adventists. If you haven’t watched it yet, I suggest that you take the time to listen to what Pastor Kang has to say about this. Here is the link for the video and another link to the comments of someone else who took the time to watch it.

Jesuit Attack in China: David Kang (watch from the 7 minute mark to about the 17 minute mark)

Hmmm, so this little insignificant church with its quirky teachings is the only one the Catholic church acknowledges follows the Bible (as I have documented previously with quotes) yet the Catholic church feels it necessary for us to be target number 1 to infiltrate and try destroy and alter our teachings through deception. I wonder why that is....
...because they know from our books on end times prophecy (of which 'The Great Controversy' is the most important and comprehensive work ever produced) that we clearly know of what the Vatican gets up to with its allegiances with the forces of darkness and how they work together to bring about people's destruction during the Tribulation period and strong delusion.

I guess it just adds credibility to the 3 minute video ..."Jesuits Believe Ellen White is a Prophet"

edit on 27-10-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 08:00 AM
reply to post by silo13

All you will ever know is appearances and disappearances.
My mother died and disappeared. But every now and then she reappears in dreams. I see her regularly.

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 08:01 AM
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Not to mention the biblical calendar is off and has been off for 2000 years.


if it was lost it was reconfirmed what the correct day was on about 9 occasions through history. Some of the occasions:
- During the Exodus when manna was given to last two days instead of one
- At Mt Sinai
- Then when we go to the Julian calendar in 46 BC we get the sabbath date reconfirmed during Jesus' life and the change to the Gregorian calendar did not modify the weekly cycle. It went from Thursday then Friday as the change came in.

We have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.
source: Letter regarding continuity of the weekly cycle, US Naval Observatory (Washington DC: March 12, 1932)

"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley, The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].

"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.

"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."—Dr. Lyman Coleman.

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.

"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.

Jesus bought us the sabbath (the Rest) at golgotha in which we were entered into a perpetual state of rest from our fleshly labors for righteousness. Jesus has become our sabbath and we are to keep every day holy to him sanf worship him everyday and walk with him 24/7.

The 'rest' harkens back to when Jesus met with Moses in the wilderness, He told him that He would bring rest to the children of Israel through Moses' leadership (Exodus 33:14). Here, Jesus, the new Moses as pictured by Matthew, promises rest to those who labor and are burdened down.

The metaphorical 'yoke' that Jesus' audience were carrying were many: the oppressive legal demands of religious leaders of the day based on 'their' interpretation of the Mosaic Law; the economic oppression brought on by the wealthy, particularly that of debts and related legal cases; and the oppression Roman taxation system. Jesus invites these burdened ones to take His yoke. This is not a less stringent interpretation of the law (meaning the correct interpretation of the initially intent behind the law), as he makes very clear in the Sermon on the Mount. Rather it is the lightness of the yoke that He emphasizes. The lightness consists of meekness and humility of heart. These characteristics make the fuller demands of Jesus much easier to bear than even that of the scribes and Pharisees. When the Christian takes on Jesus' yoke, he or she will find true refreshment (or rest) for the soul.
source: Andrews Study Bible, study notes for Matthew 11:28 and 29

As i said above the original sabbath went by the phases of the moon, not days of the week

I asked you to provide references to your statement...please review this post and the included linked videos....or withdraw your statement.

If you think you are correct then rebut the Chart of the Week research done by Dr. William Meade Jones and the above worldwide authorities and the establishment of the correct Sabbath day at least from Jesus' time which was after the Julian Calendar

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 08:02 AM
reply to post by Itisnowagain


posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 08:12 AM
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

I have spent more time reading your actual posts in this thread than I have in others. I'm trying to be respectful and understand you. Please accept this post as intended sincerely, I mean no disrespect. I apologize for having, in the past, felt irritated and argumentative about your points. Please consider this a truce, so I may learn what you believe.

Your outrage at the blatant changing of the words in your holy book is understandable. It is outrageous.

It brings up the obvious question, though, that is: Do you think yours is the only book that has been altered to suit someone else's goals?

If you acknowledge it was done to yours, then, do you ALSO acknowledge that ANY "Bible" VERSION is very likely to have been MODIFIED from a previous version as well?

There is no question that "the Vatican" (by which I mean the Ecumenical Council ordered by Constantine and all activities since then) and many, many other Protestant Christian sects have altered and adjusted the Bible since its very beginnings. We all know its very first compilation was an "edit job"; they left out things they found unsuitable, changed things that didn't fit; put the books in non-consecutive order; and included things they might have made up.

No extant version of the Bible, nor Ellen White's interpretations of it, can be ascertained as accurate and factual. Seems to me you're pushing that boulder uphill for no real reason except fear (for others or yourself, either way).

You have no more right to insist that YOUR understanding of the Bible is correct than any other sect. You can complain that they changed the words of Ms White, but as she offered no sources other than her OWN interpretation and imagination, and was indoctrinated into a Protestant (Methodist) sect to begin with, therefore she did not come into her views from a neutral position to begin with. Add to that a Traumatic Brain Injury, and there is simply no modern reason to accept her words and vision over anyone else's, nor the version (presumably KJV) of Bible that she used.

How do you address that obvious similarity? How do you KNOW your or her version is the original and correct one?

Tell me, do the SDAs worship her? You believe she's a prophet. But her ideas were based on preconceived notions and religious input from the get-go (so were Jesus's, for that matter).
So, she was not unbiased. Not any less biased than anyone else who got enough attention to proclaim they were "right".

How then, do you justify your vilification of other versions, which people take just as seriously as you take yours?

edit on 27-10-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:59 AM
reply to post by wildtimes

Are you up for some video watching Wildtimes?

I have a couple of excellent videos done on the history of the creation of the Bible as we know it (coming to us long before Rome claims they put it together), it analyses the main Bible text streams and where they actually come from and also shows how the corruptions came into specific modern versions.

The other video is on the Dead Sea scrolls and the relevance they have in showing us what is changed or how much it has. Each vid is more than an hour long...but it is very good info

If you see those vids then you will understand my reply concerning the authority of various Bible versions. If I just give you my opinion without showing you that it is based on fact first then you won't believe me.

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