It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
I have shown in this particular instance that to doubt the authority of God now leds someone to conclude that the creation account is BS that the stories in the Old Testament are BS that when God gives clears commandments to do this or that in the NT they are now ignored....why? Well if the Bible got it wrong on the issue of the state of the dead then they could have got it wrong on other things so that means you can pretty much make up your own religion (or just follow anyone who claims to have the keys to Heaven and seemingly backs it up by having lots of money and power to boot).
What FlyersFan and you (and all others in the opposition camp on this issue) don't realize is that it will come down to keeping the Sabbath or not (when the antichrist comes on the scene). 'The wages of sign is death'. It is not so much a day that is of significance, it is that the issue of the Sabbath tests pretty darn completely someones 'belief in' God.
Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
You seem a bit delusional and self aggrandizing with your "you have been maneuvered" statements, but...
What FlyersFan is pointing out has nothing to do with the Bible, but with the method of argument.
Me: I am the world's greatest guitarist.
You: By what authority do you say that?
Me: What, the word of the world's greatest guitarist isn't good enough for you?
It's called circular logic.
[color=crimson]The Antichrist and the
mark of the beast :
[color=gold]On August 29, 1985, under the authority of
the Pope, 16 articles were written which justify
the events predicted in Revelation 13 : 16-18.
Because I personally took part in the meeting
which prepared for the publishing of these articles,
I will give you now the translation of the list
of these 16 articles, taken from the minutes of
this meeting, signed by Pope John-Paul II :
Article 1 : No one will be able to send a letter
by mail without the mark.
Article 2 : No one will be hired by a company
without the mark.
Article 3 : No child will be able to study if his
parents do not have the mark.
Article 4 : All armaments will be placed
under the authority of a unique worldwide organisation,
and no one will be able to buy or sell
them without the mark.
Article 5 : No one will be able to buy nor sell
food products, nor be a farmer, without this
Article 6 : No one will be able to make bank
transactions without this mark.
Article 7 : If someone doesn’t accept or goes
against these articles, he will be severely punished,
even up to the death penalty.
Article 8 : No one will be able to travel
Article 9 : All space exploration vessels will
be placed under the authority of this worldwide
Article 10 : No one will be able to import or
export anything without having this mark.
Article 11 : There will a unique currency,
Article 12 : [color=palevioletred]There will be a unique Church,
and all the members of this worldwide church will
worship on the same day, Sunday.
Article 13 : Poverty and destitution will be
eliminated. The standard of living in developing
nations will be improved.
Article 14 : No one will be able to hunt or fish
without this mark.
Article 15 : Every transportation company
worldwide will be particularly well treated.
Article 16 : No one will be able to receive
hospital care without having this mark.
[color=gold]Nothing has changed. Because I honored the name of Jesus Christ. Because I anointed the name of Jesus Christ. Because I saved in the name of Jesus Christ. Because I delivered and did signs, wonders and miracles in the name of Jesus Christ. Because I still do it in the name of Jesus Christ does not mean that you are not to know HIS True Hebrew Name. You will and you are held accountable for what you know. Because I allowed all this time for you to assemble and call Sunday MY Sabbath day, I did the same thing, I allowed it. It was not MY will, I allowed it. But in the Great Tribulation satan is going to show you how he is going to counterfeit. [ [color=crimson]Beware the Sunday Churches]
For again I say, even the very wealthy evangelists who know this truth have sold out this truth, have compromised this truth, will lead you right into the arms of the anti-messiah, the son of satan. And they will say, "That's Jesus Christ, that's your Messiah, he's come. He's come and now peace is all over this earth, don't worry about Hell." Why can't you see? They don't want to counterfeit ME. MY Name is YAH. King James will pay. King James has paid when he blotted out MY Son's Sacred Name. READ! READ! READ! Study and show thyself approved. It was not always King James, read the Holy Manuscripts. Read where the Hebrew translations are. Read where even the Aramaic know HIS Name. WHY? WHY? WHY will you not believe?
edit on 25-10-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)edit on 25-10-2012 by EfficientP because: (no reason given)
Since you think it so vital that the Sabbath be observed on Saturday,
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."
"If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the LORD has spoken.
Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heaven and the new earth which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. (23) and it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
New International Version (©1984)
It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath."
New Living Translation (©2007)
This will be a Sabbath day of complete rest for you, and on that day you must deny yourselves. This day of rest will begin at sundown on the ninth day of the month and extend until sundown on the tenth day."
This Chart of the Week is over a hundred years old. It was prepared by Dr. William Meade Jones, a research expert in London, England. Well over a hundred languages prove that the week, everywhere, has seven days;—and that, in most languages, the native word for the seventh day is "Sabbath" (which means "rest" or "rest day") or "rest day."
Jones, a well-known British researcher, decided that since Scripture clearly shows that the Bible Sabbath was first given to mankind at the end of Creation Week, then two important facts would have had to be known throughout the ancient world: First, a fixing of the seven-day weekly cycle on a worldwide basis and, second, an ancient worldwide knowledge of the seventh-day Sabbath.
Chart of the week
I assume that you also follow all the restrictions on what can be done that day, eh?
The Sabbath was hallowed at the creation. As ordained for man, it had its origin when "the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Job 38:7. Peace brooded over the world; for earth was in harmony with heaven. "God saw everything that He had made, and, behold, it was very good;" and He rested in the joy of His completed work. Gen. 1:31.
Because He had rested upon the Sabbath, "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it,"--set it apart to a holy use. He gave it to Adam as a day of rest. It was a memorial of the work of creation, and thus a sign of God's power and His love. The Scripture says, "He hath made His wonderful works to be remembered." "The things that are made," declare "the invisible things of Him since the creation of the world," "even His everlasting power and divinity." Gen. 2:3; Ps. 111:4; Rom. 1:20
The Sabbath calls our thoughts to nature, and brings us into communion with the Creator. In the song of the bird, the sighing of the trees, and the music of the sea, we still may hear His voice who talked with Adam in Eden in the cool of the day. And as we behold His power in nature we find comfort, for the word that created all things is that which speaks life to the soul. He "who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." 2 Cor. 4:6.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p.281, p. 282
As the Jews departed from God, and failed to make the righteousness of Christ their own by faith, the Sabbath lost its significance to them. Satan was seeking to exalt himself and to draw men away from Christ, and he worked to pervert the Sabbath, because it is a sign of the power of Christ. The Jewish leaders accomplished the will of Satan by surrounding God's rest day with burdensome requirements. In the days of Christ the Sabbath had become so perverted that its observance reflected the character of selfish and arbitrary men rather than the character of the loving heavenly Father. The rabbis virtually represented God as giving laws which it was impossible for men to obey. They led the people to look upon God as a tyrant, and to think that the observance of the Sabbath, as He required it, made men hard hearted and cruel. It was the work of Christ to clear away these misconceptions. Although the rabbis followed Him with merciless hostility, He did not even appear to conform to their requirements, but went straight forward, keeping the Sabbath according to the law of God.
When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.
The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.
If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.
Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.
Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.
Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.
Desire of Ages, Chp 29 p. 283, 284, 285, 286
when Israel's Sabbath was instituted, it went by the phases of the moon not the days of the week,
I'm not a SeventhDay Adventist. I follow Shabbat. Every Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset. The Jews practice the true Sabbath.
The Catholic Church created a man-made Sabbath called " The Lord's Day" and outlawed the Jewish Sabbath a while back.
Originally posted by EfficientP
the Vatican and the Roman Catholic Church have added rituals and stuff that is anti-scriptural and is no part in true Salvation of the soul.
What you are trying to say is that billions and billions of people who love and worship God are going to hell because they don't belong to your little church.
You 7th Day Adventists are very small in number.
Pastor David Kang tells how the Chinese Jesuits have printed counterfeit copies of Ellen G. White's books in China with illegal changes. Adventists couldn't get the legal ISBN number to publish the books of Ellen G. White in China -- but it seems that they got it in Hong Kong, and published The Great Controversy Series over there. In China, the Jesuits got the legal ISBN number, and published Ellen G. White's books, and distributed them!!!! Sounds good???? Think again!!!! The books looked exactly like the ones that the Adventists had published in Hong Kong, with the same covers,& with Ellen G. White's name, but there were changes inside!!!! Sunday is called God's Sabbath, but the most startling changes were in the accounts on the Reformation. Martin Luther apparently fell in love, and since the priests couldn't marry, he revolted against the church, and started the reformation!!!! And instead of calling the Jesuits "the most cruel, unscrupulous, and powerful of all the champions of popery", [The Great Controversy, p. 2343], the "revised" book portrays them as wonderful evangelists that were far more effective than the reformers!!!!
oday I received and email from Jeffrey and Monica Sonnentag alerting me about a recent video posted by Pastor David Kang describing how our Ellen White books are being sold in China. The problem is that the content of said books has been apparently altered in many places in order to reflect Catholic doctrinal teachings. A good example is the reference to the creation where Sunday is presented as the day the Lord rested following his creative work. This type of glaring and daring counterfeit is almost unbelievable, but Pastor Kang has the damning evidence in his possession.
One thing is the failure to acknowledge one’s sources, which is what Mrs. White was criticized for, but another thing is to publish her books bearing her name, but with the content altered to suit her critics and enemies. This type of criminal behavior is contemptible and should be investigated and penalized. Of course, what can you expect from China where all kinds of legally protected merchandize is being illegally produced, sold, and exported!
In the “Great Controversy” book, for example, the Jesuits are described in glowing terms as successful evangelists instead of “the most cruel, unscrupulous,” religious manipulators who had no moral problem using lies and deception in order to advance and restore the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff. The video lasts about half and hour and the content is impressive, well documented, and alarming for Adventists. If you haven’t watched it yet, I suggest that you take the time to listen to what Pastor Kang has to say about this. Here is the link for the video and another link to the comments of someone else who took the time to watch it.
Not to mention the biblical calendar is off and has been off for 2000 years.
We have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.
source: Letter regarding continuity of the weekly cycle, US Naval Observatory (Washington DC: March 12, 1932)
"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley, The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].
"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages, without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.
"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth. They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."—Dr. Lyman Coleman.
"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris, Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.
"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.
Jesus bought us the sabbath (the Rest) at golgotha in which we were entered into a perpetual state of rest from our fleshly labors for righteousness. Jesus has become our sabbath and we are to keep every day holy to him sanf worship him everyday and walk with him 24/7.
The 'rest' harkens back to when Jesus met with Moses in the wilderness, He told him that He would bring rest to the children of Israel through Moses' leadership (Exodus 33:14). Here, Jesus, the new Moses as pictured by Matthew, promises rest to those who labor and are burdened down.
The metaphorical 'yoke' that Jesus' audience were carrying were many: the oppressive legal demands of religious leaders of the day based on 'their' interpretation of the Mosaic Law; the economic oppression brought on by the wealthy, particularly that of debts and related legal cases; and the oppression Roman taxation system. Jesus invites these burdened ones to take His yoke. This is not a less stringent interpretation of the law (meaning the correct interpretation of the initially intent behind the law), as he makes very clear in the Sermon on the Mount. Rather it is the lightness of the yoke that He emphasizes. The lightness consists of meekness and humility of heart. These characteristics make the fuller demands of Jesus much easier to bear than even that of the scribes and Pharisees. When the Christian takes on Jesus' yoke, he or she will find true refreshment (or rest) for the soul.
source: Andrews Study Bible, study notes for Matthew 11:28 and 29
As i said above the original sabbath went by the phases of the moon, not days of the week