It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Christians: What's your relationship with the dead?

page: 2
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 11:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by silo13
I was told many years ago there's 'no relationship' between those who are dead and those who're left on earth.

I'm curious - (for personal reasons) - what (you) Christians believe about our loved ones who've 'passed away'.

Do you believe those who've gone before you are 'looking down'? Protecting you? Or at least - still a part of your life in that they witness all that's 'going on' here - if they so choose?

I'm truly curious about your opinion - and - if you have any personal stories to 'back up' your belief.

Has anyone you know who's died - given you a 'sign' or peace of mind or...anything...since they 'left'?

peace



Considering you started this thread, I would be very interested in the answers you have for the questions you posed .

Perhaps you would consider sharing with us some of those answers.

Personally, I have imagined that a few loved ones that have passed on have been with me at certain difficult moments, but I think that may have been imagination...and I can't say for sure.

I do find consolation in the thought that those who have passed on, and are in "holy spiritual planes" pray for me, and my loved ones, as well as know the truth about my life.


edit on 14-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 11:58 PM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 




The two people I know of (over the past few hundreds years) that have had a direct enough line of communication with the above to receive messages that they have written down and can be analysed sufficiently to see that they are coming from Him or one of His messengers angels both are strongly against us seeking to communicate with anyone who is past.


True to a point. Even Father doesn't want you becoming dependent upon the word of someone from above. He wants you to come directly to him. It is alright if you have a few questions, but then you need to start speaking to him, as above will inform you of this.

But, for guidance and the such, no, as they wouldn't even have access to information that is needed to even guide you on your path.

I go above and speak to whom I need to, this way, I am not dealing with below, or those who are bound to common ground.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 11:35 AM
link   
I will stand with Solomon, who stated that the dead do not know anything.

When you're dead, you're dead, and if the dead are with us in some way, they're not really dead. Away with extra-Biblical superstitions.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 11:39 AM
link   
wow. almost two pages, and the OP hasn't bothered to come back to address anyone..


Full of questions, and no opinions from her...whats up with that?

Is this just another cheap attempt at stars and flags?

I certainly hope not.

edit on 15-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 11:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Is this just another cheap attempt at stars and flags?


Have a star for that observation


Though you missed one follow up post at: www.abovetopsecret.com... which explains why the thread was created in the first place.



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 11:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by WhisperingWinds
Is this just another cheap attempt at stars and flags?


Have a star for that observation


Though you missed one follow up post at: www.abovetopsecret.com... which explains why the thread was created in the first place.


Yep I did miss that post..

My bad..


(slinks out of post munching on humble pie)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 08:36 AM
link   


Do you believe those who've gone before you are 'looking down'? Protecting you? Or at least - still a part of your life in that they witness all that's 'going on' here - if they so choose?


Personally i do not believe they are doing any of that. The contemporary thought on life after death for most christians is that when we die our spirits go to be with Jesus while waiting for our new indestructible bodies on resurrection day, that is the blessing we recieve for believing in him.

Do our spirits exist after death? Absolutely, king Saul had the Witch of Endor (a medium) call up the ghost of Samuel in which Samuel told Saul he was going to die, so our spirits do persist after death, however divination (ouija/witch boards, numerology, tarot, crystal balls, astrology/horoscopes etc.) and contacting the dead is forbidden and pre-second covenant incurred the penalty of death for doing.

I don't have a relationship with any dead relatives, i don't talk to or pray to any of them even if i may miss some of them, i do not go to their grave sites to have conversations with the dead either, that seems morbid in the anyhow.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:02 AM
link   
I am a firm believer in the Catholic belief of 'the communion of saints'.
We pray for each other ... both here on Earth and those who have passed on.
I believe this because of personal experience and because it makes good sense.

As for those that think the bible is the 'end all' for this discussion ...
It's easy to cherry pick the bible to make it fit anyones view on this ...

Bible quotes showing the dead are very much awake and aware of what is happening here -

BEST EXAMPLE ... Revelation 6:9-10 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: (10) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" [cf. Zech 1:12]

Eph3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named

Heb12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect

Also -
2 Maccabees 15:11-16
Tobit 12:1-22
Rev 5:8 and 8:3-4

Biblical Overview - Communion of Saints

Prayers for the Dead
Tobit 12:12; 2 Macc 12:39-45; 1 Cor 15:29; 2 Tim 1:16-18.
Dead Saints Are Aware of Earthly Affairs
Mt 22:30 w/ Lk 15:7,10 & 1 Cor 4:9; Heb 12:1.
Dead Saints Appear On Earth to Interact With Men
1 Sam 28:12-15 with Ecclesiasticus 46:20; 2 Macc 15:13-16; Mt 17:1-3 and 27:50-53; Rev 11:3



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000



Do you believe those who've gone before you are 'looking down'? Protecting you? Or at least - still a part of your life in that they witness all that's 'going on' here - if they so choose?


Do our spirits exist after death? Absolutely, king Saul had the Witch of Endor (a medium) call up the ghost of Samuel in which Samuel told Saul he was going to die, so our spirits do persist after death, however divination (ouija/witch boards, numerology, tarot, crystal balls, astrology/horoscopes etc.) and contacting the dead is forbidden and pre-second covenant incurred the penalty of death for doing.


Samuel never appeared to Saul. The supposed spirit of Saul appeared to the witch alone (despite being right next to each other) Saul saw nothing.
---------------------------------
Now before we get into the passage proper we need to establish proper context and include some other passages to make things clear (because you are clearly dismissing elements of assumed knowledge).

Background Information:

- 1 Samuel 15:26 - 'And Samuel said to Saul, I will not return with you: for you have rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD has rejected you from being king over Israel.'

Samuel is telling Saul he will not go to him again....so why would Samuel then decide to appear to Saul?

1 Samuel 15:35 'Until the day Samuel died, he did not go to see Saul again...'

- In verse 6 of the chapter 28 passage God is telling Saul that God has decided never to speak to Saul again because of his rebellion; not through dreams, through the Urim (a stone which God used to help the priests make decisions make decisions), nor "by the prophets". So for the manifestation to be Samuel the prophet it would have to contradict the background context that God is giving to the story that he would not receive any revelations from the prophets. Really, the writer of the story would have to be idiotic to include that statement if in fact the writer was trying to get across that Saul communicated with the real Samuel.

- We are reminded in 28:3 that Samuel is in fact dead even though we are already told this in chapter 25. Why does the writer feel the need to repeat this? Perhaps to refresh in our minds what in fact the state of the dead is:

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Isaiah 26:14 'They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise...'

Psalms 115:17 'The dead cannot sing praises to the LORD, for they have gone into the silence of the grave.'

Psalms 146:4 'When they breathe their last breath, they return to the ground. In that very day his thoughts perish.'

Job 14:12 'so man lies down and does not rise...men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.'

- In 1 Samuel 16:14 we are told ,'The spirit of the LORD departed from Saul and was replaced by an evil spirit'. We also know from 1 Peter 5:8 that evil spirits are around to watch our every move and thus they would have known that the LORD had left him.

source: www.biblicalproportions.com...
1 Samuel 28:13: 'And the king [4428] said [0559] unto her, Be not afraid: [3372] for what sawest [7200] thou? And the woman [0802] said [0559] unto Saul, [7586] I saw [7200] gods [0430] ascending [5927] out of the earth. [0776]'

I think this calls for a bit of an investigation of what these 'gods' coming up from out of the earth are don't you, as this seems a bit different than merely a spirit or soul of a human being huh?

Gods - אלהים 'ĕlohı̂ym is here used in a general sense of a supernatural appearance, often used to describe a divine being and can be used to describe an angel.

First she sees what appears to be a supernatural angelic being coming up from down below (hmm, doesn't this sound awfully like the fallen angels who dwell in the earth?) and then the being comes with a mantel/robe which is the chief thing used to identify it. So you think that when someone dies they take their clothes with them into another dimension?

Verse 14, '...and Saul perceived it was Samuel...' according to King James derived translation, not 'knew' it to be Samuel.

Conclusion: The Spirits of the dead can't communicate with us, it was not Samuel who Saul was speaking to, the Bible gives very good reason for the death penalty for those who seek after this communication because all they will be doing is communicating with the deceptive fallen angels and are out to destroy them and others.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:11 AM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


Conclusion: The Spirits of the dead can't communicate with us, it was not Samuel who Saul was speaking to, the Bible gives very good reason for the death penalty for those who seek after this communication because all they will be doing is communicating with the deceptive fallen angels and are out to destroy them and others.

So, when I was sitting outside silently weeping for the death of my Dad, looking up at the blue sky beyond the lovely tree canopy, tears sliding down my face and neck, and I KNOW I FELT an embrace,

that was a demon comforting me?

I'm sorry, I don't agree with your "conclusion." Sorry you've never had any experiences to help you reach beyond the veil. Until you do, I'll reject your insistence that my own experience was false or evil or "sorcery."



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:14 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 




that was a demon comforting me?


I notice that with a lot of people. A demon or Satan is always their explanation for something out of the ordinary. They give him/them too much credit.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


Demons do not comfort, and your loved ones will not do something that they know will frighten you. That's the easiest way to discern those experiences.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:17 AM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 



I notice that with a lot of people. A demon or Satan is always their explanation for something out of the ordinary. They give him/them too much credit.

Yeah, and this day and age, I can't fathom how that is the case.

I KNOW beyond a "shadow of a doubt" that what I experienced was comforting, good, peaceful, and loving. Whether it was God, a spiritual guide, my dad, or my imagination (the last of which I completely deny -- I KNOW it happened)....it was benevolent and helpful.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:34 AM
link   
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 





So you think that when someone dies they take their clothes with them into another dimension?


I'm not a medium i don't know what they see, but spirits may have "residual self image" for all i know. I've never been dead i can't tell you. The "gods" coming up out of the earth could have also been blocks of wood or carved stone idols, since the pagan's gods were just that, nothing but the things they made with their own hands. Angels, Fallen One or not look like we do except 2 classes, seraphim and cherubim so is it possible they could have been Fallen Ones? Yes it is, but considering this woman was likely high as a kite when she saw her visions, since using drugs is often a facilitator of inducing traces, channelings and visions, she could have been tripping balls on ancient peyote. My cousin is a drug addict and he took something that made him hallucinate and he took off running down the street yelling about lava bursting up out of the ground, so yeah we don't know. Coulda been Samuel, and maybe it might not have been but who knows? I wasn't there.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:42 AM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 


Demons do not comfort, and your loved ones will not do something that they know will frighten you. That's the easiest way to discern those experiences.

Thanks, adj!

I don't believe I've ever been approached by a demon, although I have been approached by sociopathic people who I trusted naively and wound up hurting me...that is TAKING something from me.

Some so badly that part of me died. Not all of me, but part of me. It's awful. It's hard to recover from, too.

But, ethereal demons? Nope. No indication in my life they exist.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 11:52 AM
link   
reply to post by wildtimes
 


When I was driving home from the hospital, after my father died, the radio was playing "Don't Fear the Reaper." by the Blue Oyster Cult. It brought tears streaming down my cheeks.

But I could feel my father's presence, and he was so free and filled with joy, he kept telling me how "beautifull everything is from up here! Look how beautiful that mountain is!"

Once, when I was in a lucid state, I found myself rushing to my dead uncle. I have no idea why or what I wanted to say to him, but there I was, calling excitedly, "Lewis, Lewis,wake up." And I pounded on his chest. He sat up groggily and asked "What?" I felt bad for waking him and told him to go back to sleep.


I had a roommate that was murdered. Long story, but basically she was going to testify against a mob member. Her presence in the house afterward was so strong that many of my guests saw and felt her. My other roommate was so freaked out by her "ghost" that she moved out!

My grandmothers presence was also very, very strong. On time she compelled me to tell my ex husband that she was playing cribbage with his grandfather. My ex broke into tears upon hearing this, as one of the most memorable times he had with his grandfather was making a cribbage board and play the game with him.




edit on 16-10-2012 by windword because: spelling



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:02 PM
link   
reply to post by windword
 


"Don't Fear the Reaper." by the Blue Oyster Cult. It brought tears streaming down my cheeks.

Excellent song!

Thanks for your anecdotes.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by wildtimes
I don't believe I've ever been approached by a demon,

I have. If a demon is near you .. you will know it. You won't have to ask yourself .. 'geee .. could it be a demon'. You KNOW it. It HATES .. and HATES .. and HATES ... and you can feel all the hate focused on you. It's like it's pure hate and you are the only thing it is thinking about and the only thing it's looking at.

I couldn't see it. But I was absolutely sure when it showed up.

BTW .. this happened when I was a Chaplain Assistant in the Army.
It happened in the Army Chapel in which I worked at.

Demons are real.
They couldn't 'comfort' anyone.
They simply aren't capable.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:10 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I have. If a demon is near you .. you will know it. You won't have to ask yourself .. 'geee .. could it be a demon'. You KNOW it. It HATES .. and HATES .. and HATES ... and you can feel all the hate focused on you. It's like it's pure hate and you are the only thing it is thinking about and the only thing it's looking at.

Sounds horrifying!

I've had other experiences of the deceased "acting", once my then-husband's grandfather made himself known during the night, when I was lying on the couch in the home he built, and my then-husband was sleeping in the other room after a quarrel. I heard some footsteps coming down the hall, and then felt a "bump" against the couch. Thinking it was my husband coming to reconcile, I turned...no one was there.

Next morning, I told my husband about it, and he said he experienced a backlit silhouette walk into the room where he was sleeping. He said he sat upright, knowing it was his Grandad, but then no one was there.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 12:17 PM
link   
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I agree. I had a demon bother me for awhile. It hung out in a corner in my bedroom and would attack me with hate when I was falling asleep or waking up. For a while, it really bothered me and I attached all kinds of personal insecurities to the attacks.

Then I started to just let the hate roll over me, and just ignore it. That really made it mad and it starting this routine of rushing me and circling around the bed, sometimes it even felt as if the bed was shaking! And it would yell at me close to my face.

But even that got old, and I started to find humor in it's antics and began laughing at it and chiding it,"Is that all got?" Once I started laughing at it, it never returned!



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join