Just another SWAT raid burning a 12 yeal old girl in her sleep

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

I always taught my children to police are the good guys, and they should not fear them as they are "here to help". More and more I see the naivety of this line of thinking, maybe I should be teaching them the present truth, not the truth from when I was a kid.

Statistically that is the most dangerous thing you can tell your children.

As a population police are several times more likely to be self-medicating, harbor depression, violence issues, be involved in domestic abuse of spouses and children.

It's safer, by the numbers, to approach a complete stranger for help rather than a cop.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
homepages.rpi.edu...

One thing that I always find disturbing in cases like this is how the police in the US can enter people's homes at any hour in any way, here in Portugal the police cannot enter anyone's house without their permission between sunset and sunrise, even with a warrant.

I know that things are that way because before the Carnation Revolution the police (and the political police) could enter anyone's home at any time, although even then the night hours were avoided in most cases.

With the possibility of seeing their home invaded by the police at any hour, with any kind of force, is something the people should not allow. Not only that, the police and those that control them should understand that this kind of acting only creates enemies of what was before, at most, neutral population, so this is not helping them either.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I just got done looking at the threat assessment, I am a vet, I have a history of not putting up with any crap from law enforcement ( never been arrested or charged with anything, I just don't tolerate their crap, I call their supervisor, I call the state plolice etc to come and teach then how to do their jobs correctly, I even went and chewed the chiefs ass once in his own office in front of his entire force, I also once told the county sherriff to STFU oor I would put him in his own cuffs, for threatening me with violence for somthing I had no part in)

I just wander if they have that on file, that I am not the one? I will call the news, I will make yard signs, I will stand in front of the police station with a sign.

I just don't let their overstepping go, I demand a satisfactory resolution to their officers misconduct, and won't stop fighting until I get one. It has worked out for me pretty well so far.

Now though it makes me fear, maybe I should just STFU and keep low in the hole. Maintain my military baring and just succking it up doesn't seem t be the answer though, making them realize your not gonna be bullied into allowing them to break the law seems like the only reasonable answer.

Originally posted by inverslyproportional

Now though it makes me fear, maybe I should just STFU and keep low in the hole. Maintain my military baring and just succking it up doesn't seem t be the answer though, making them realize your not gonna be bullied into allowing them to break the law seems like the only reasonable answer.

As a vet you're a red flag on those checklists.

There is some value to letting it be known you wont be bullied.

This fellow here has held them off for 12 years:

"What he said was this: 'If y'all come to get me, bring body bags,' " said Thomas, now a local justice of the peace.

Thomas remembers the message clearly, not because of its unvarnished threat, but because -- after 12 years -- Gray, who doesn't acknowledge the authority of any government, continues to dare police to come and get him.

Read more: www.azcentral.com...

Everything has a risk to reward ratio. Most people will just roll over and take it when a SWAT team or any authority figure comes knocking and take the settlement check later. For the assaulting party this is a low risk action that carries virtually no penalty so the reward is the self-perpetuation of their unit and the jollies they get.

So promise them a body count and they may take the time to at least double-check that address and investigate the claims in the warrant before risking it.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
So promise them a body count and they may take the time to at least double-check that address and investigate the claims in the warrant before risking it.

The problem with that is a normal citizen doesn't "promise them a body count" because they do not even know that they are at risk from those who should be helping them as part of the society.

reply to post by ArMaP


That is a problem. A huge head-in-the-sand problem. Too many people think it'll never happen to them even as it happens to more people everyday.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I'll never understand this raiding of homes to capture someone. At several points every day I am out and alone. I can easily be picked up getting into my car, or getting out of it to go into a store. Or, on a school day the kids are gone and the wife either works or goes shopping, leaving me alone.

There is no need to harm any family members of someone in trouble with the law.

That would require actual work on their part to watch you and tail you and it would lack the dramatic flair and self-perpetuation of getting to suit up with all their toys.

It's never about what's good for you or the public. The morons who opened fire at the Empire State building proved that. It's all about what's good for them.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
That is a problem. A huge head-in-the-sand problem.

It's more than that, as I think most people are not even aware that this problem exist and that they are as likely to become a victim of it.

reply to post by ArMaP


Could be. I personally find it hard to believe there is a wide-spread ignorance of these events given how many high-profile ones have occurred, how many times main stream news outlets have covered "SWATting" and how many individual cities across the country have experienced an incident like this first hand.

But then I am often surprised by the seemingly impossible level of ignorance among the population.

I guess I shouldnt be.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by ArMaP

 

That is a problem. A huge head-in-the-sand problem. Too many people think it'll never happen to them even as it happens to more people everyday.

Utilization of SWAT teams seems to be more prevalent now than ever before.

A couple of years ago, after one of my regular gun cleaning sessions, I received a call from someone identifying himself as a member of the local police department, and asking me to step outside, carrying NOTHING, and my hands in plain view. When I stepped outside, there were several cops, all armed with rifles, all pointing towards me. I was questioned on whether I was armed (no), whether I owned any firearms (yes), and if I knew why they were there. (Duh... pretty obvious since I had just finished cleaning my guns 10 minutes before their arrival) They asked to see the firearms, so I led em' inside.

I informed them that I held a valid CPL and had a 9mm in my purse on my desk. I then led them to my gun safe and showed them my collection and my class 3 permit. They ran the serials and confirmed that everything was in order, but were concerned since my Mossberg with the pistol grip was shorter than allowed by state law. I provided all the sales receipts to show that the piece wasn't altered, and was factory spec. They said that was fine.

Apparently some paranoid neighbor call the police when they saw me outside cleaning my AR. The call went out for a "crazy lady armed with a machine gun," and the knee jerk reaction was to dispatch the SWAT team. My understanding was that in cases such as this, the police should have already known that I had a class 3 and a concealed carry permit, but for some reason that information was missed.

Overall the police were all pretty friendly about the situation after our initial discussion outside, though I was a bit irritated. I think most of them figured out I wasn't some deranged lunatic when they saw my military awards display, my framed Presidential Service Award, and pics of me and Bill Clinton, me and George Bush, and me having dinner with the governor. I dare not speculate, however, on what could have transpired under different circumstances.

SWAT teams are sometime called. I just never thought that they would be called out because someone thought that I was some raving lunatic threatening the community.

Nothing will happen to the people responsible for this, nobody fired nor arrested, nothing.

Evidence of illegal activity in the house should be made public and the offending party fired and arrested. "Forced to resign" or internal investigation shouldn't be an option.

Police that break the law should have to answer for it and their punishment should be more severe because they are expected not to do things like that in the first place.

I feel bad for this family. There's going to be a lot of therapy in their future and I wouldn't be surprised if none of them trusted police again.

Obviously the police are a big part of what's wrong with this world. When the good cops are no longer even close to few and far between. Do they even matter anymore ? What police forces all over the globe are getting away with is simply provoking a major incident against them.

Not to mention they stand between us and those we really NEED to get our hands on. They seem to be begging for heavy loses at some point. Why do they seem to want this ? Sheriff John Bunnell is a total geek !

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Do you know what blows me away? The fact that the police were "in their mind" raiding an alleged meth lab, and they were FREAKIN STUPID ENOUGH to use and incendiary device!!!!!!!! Is it just me, or should these idiots be hospitalized for having suicidal tendencies????

reply to post by seeker1963


The know that having been given a badge they are above all laws.
They are so convinced of this they they 'know' the laws of thermodynamics and physics don't apply to them either.

reply to post by MDDoxs


I thought the line was "Frag out"....not "grenade out"? Correct me if I am wrong but I am playing Black Ops right now and I keep hearing "frag" not "grenade!"

Originally posted by SassyCass

I looked at the photo's from that link and seeing her room like that.
I don't know. I hate the thought of the girl getting hurt but--- maybe if they cleaned up around the place, the cops wouldn't have reason to suspect something bad was going on in the house that required a SWAT teams attention

You say you looked at the pictures, but apparently you didn't read the caption under the pics. The disarray in the child's room was CAUSED by the granade. See the smashed in part of the wall? That's from the flash/bang.
If it has that much force, throwing some clothing and personal effects around, would be no problem...

Originally posted by randyvs
Obviously the police are a big part of what's wrong with this world.

The world is more than your little corner, and things are not the same everywhere.

As a former Police officer I am appalled at this entire scenario.

This is all I have to say on the matter. I clicked on the link and read the article and viewed the photographs. The part that I don't get is that they collected information/intelligence and were acting professionally. Then I read where the flash grenade would not have been considered - had they known that juveniles were present.

Who the heck put the information/intelligence together in the first place????? How in the blazes did this raid get authorisation to proceed????? It is clear that there is a huge problem with the American Police service/force. To state that the raid was researched and planned and to NOT KNOW there were juveniles present ...join the dots people.

Much Peace...to the family involved & all Americans - any of whom could be the next victim of those who are supposed to protect you...

Originally posted by Amanda5
I clicked on the link and read the article and viewed the photographs. The part that I don't get is that they collected information/intelligence and were acting professionally. Then I read where the flash grenade would not have been considered - had they known that juveniles were present.

Seems to me, the only thing professional about this incident, is the damage control! And, they didn't say they "would not" use flash grenades, if they knew juveniles were present. they said:

"The information that we had did not have any juveniles in the house and did not have any juveniles in the room," he said. "We generally do not introduce these disorienting devices when they're present."[/ex

edit on 10/13/2012 by GoOfYFoOt because: I edited it...