Police union in Philly, holds fundraiser for officer who punched a woman in the face.

Originally posted by LockNLoad

I work physical security for a large corporation, I have and do put up with smarta** jack wagons, drunks running the gates, and other dip sh*ts for about 18 years, and if I was to loose my temper and punch somebody I would lose my job and retirement, no argument, no second chance, no appeals, and my union would not hold a fund raiser for me.

edit on 12-10-2012 by LockNLoad because: typo

My job too is security and i know the rules in place.If i step out of line then it's the can for me as
you guys say.Just like cops we are taught self defence reasonable force etc not to 'haymaker'
civilians and the likes..

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Lose your temper, lose your career. Hell of a trade off for a bruise or a busted lip..whatever she ended up with.

It's a bad message for the Union to be quite so open without some equally open reasoning....but wow.

So... A cop could, in theory, work their whole lives in decent standing, given the ups and downs of one of the worst jobs society has to offer a person. Then...in a moment of stupidity..they can lose every shred of that life's career, pension and everything.....because they hit a person once in the face?

Okay....and the next time people wonder why only Bubba level thugs, bully boys and attitude problems generally become cops these days, look no further for why. Why the hell would anyone in their right mind enter a career where 10 or 15 years work can be lost for half a seconds stupid with NO SERIOUS injury or damage done as a result of it?

Ugh.... Yup.. makes perfect sense to me now why we don't have good cops. It's a fools game to even try.

If you are prone to lose your composure so easily, then yes, you don't need to be a cop. Cops deal with all kinds of situations, and most require interaction with people who are hard to deal with...that's why they shouldn't fly off the handle. They are supposed to be calm, cool, and collected. So, yeah, if you lose it and walk up behind some lady and punch her in the face, you deserve to be immediately terminated.

And, being a cop is not the worst job society has to offer. I have a feeling you may have too much of a dog in this particular fight. Only a thug would do what he did. There were tons of other policeman there, that didn't do what he did. That's all that needs to be said.

He was obviously someone who could not handle the pressure. He doesn't need to be a cop. Some jobs just have stricter guidelines on behavior. Some jobs require the person to be better than the average Joe.

News about police abusing innocent protesters is becoming more and more frequent. smh

And have a look at this recent incident, it doesn't involve the police but wow. Just wow.

Originally posted by smurfy

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Lose your temper, lose your career. Hell of a trade off for a bruise or a busted lip..whatever she ended up with.

It's a bad message for the Union to be quite so open without some equally open reasoning....but wow.

So... A cop could, in theory, work their whole lives in decent standing, given the ups and downs of one of the worst jobs society has to offer a person. Then...in a moment of stupidity..they can lose every shred of that life's career, pension and everything.....because they hit a person once in the face?

Okay....and the next time people wonder why only Bubba level thugs, bully boys and attitude problems generally become cops these days, look no further for why. Why the hell would anyone in their right mind enter a career where 10 or 15 years work can be lost for half a seconds stupid with NO SERIOUS injury or damage done as a result of it?

Ugh.... Yup.. makes perfect sense to me now why we don't have good cops. It's a fools game to even try.

You said it yourself Wrabbit, "Or whatever she ended up with" you don't actually care about the woman with a statement like that. More importantly, because she was there, is the unspoken inference that makes her fair game for being attacked, and it is debatable that there was the, "once" hit, and it was a woman, BTW. This policeman is a big loser in more ways than one. I do have some sympathy from the union point of view, if the money is solely for his family wellbeing, if he has one. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. Your post is all encompassing assumption.

As I've said before....several times....I grew up in a Law Enforcement household. I grew up with as many cops for friends as I did schoolmates. It gives me a very different view on things.

You say brutality.. Okay... If hitting a woman in the face, once, with a bare hand is brutality and not simply terminally bad judgement and temper.....then I'd like to know what you call Rodney King or a hundred others...who didn't have a bruise or a fat lip, but LIFE CHANGING injury after their encournter with 1 or more bad cops.

Degree...measure...graduated levels of response. These are important things and mean something anywhere else. Apparently with a political hack like Nutter, there IS no graduated levels of response to misconduct. I hope people remember that if the good Mayor has so much as a traffic ticket unpaid in his past. After all, that would be an ethical violation and we see NO gray areas, right? Ethics are ethics. Fired, prosecuted and at least 30 days in the can for a ticket. Yes, indeed....Now I kinda hope he DOES have something in HIS OWN past showing bad judgement....seeng as how totally unforgiving HE feels free about being.


So where is the line? Are cops to be fired on the spot...their careers destroyed....and to hell with their families...over a slap? How about profanity? If someone feels traumatized by verbal abuse...should that have their pension pulled too? NO INJURY OCCURRED HERE. So where is the destruction of the man's life warranted for it?

Some would destroy this cop for an incident without an injury....I'd save that level of action for cases where misconduct by a cop at least seriously injured the person. Discretion in taking action for bad behavior isn't something ignorant or outdated, it's a logical approach and it's logical for you and me as much as a cop on duty.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

So where is the line? Are cops to be fired on the spot...their careers destroyed....and to hell with their families...over a slap? How about profanity? If someone feels traumatized by verbal abuse...should that have their pension pulled too? NO INJURY OCCURRED HERE. So where is the destruction of the man's life warranted for it?

People lose their jobs every day for making mistakes!!! Don't see anyone crying over that! Shouldn't the police who are the law we look to for protection have a higher bar?

SLAP you say??? He sucker punched her from behind!!!!!

Would you defend this guy if he pulled his gun and shot this woman in the back? Whoopsy! He just had a bad day, we need to think of his family and we should let him keep his job! Seriously?????

Do you think these dirty cops give a snip about the families of the people they lock up in prison for non violent crimes!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000




Some would destroy this cop for an incident without an injury....I'd save that level of action for cases where misconduct by a cop at least seriously injured the person.

Without injury?

That is a lie and you know it!

Video was published on YouTube over the weekend that documents the events immediately before an unidentified woman in attendance at Sunday’s was sucker-punched by a large police officer, prompting blood to gush from the victim’s face.

Intentionally lying on ATS is a banning offense You saw the video and read the article.

rt.com...

.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

So where is the line? Are cops to be fired on the spot...their careers destroyed....and to hell with their families...over a slap? How about profanity? If someone feels traumatized by verbal abuse...should that have their pension pulled too? NO INJURY OCCURRED HERE. So where is the destruction of the man's life warranted for it?

People lose their jobs every day for making mistakes!!! Don't see anyone crying over that! Shouldn't the police who are the law we look to for protection have a higher bar?

SLAP you say??? He sucker punched her from behind!!!!!

Would you defend this guy if he pulled his gun and shot this woman in the back? Whoopsy! He just had a bad day, we need to think of his family and we should let him keep his job! Seriously?????

Do you think these dirty cops give a snip about the families of the people they lock up in prison for non violent crimes!!!!!!!

People lose their -jobs- every day for bad behavior. People do not lose their CAREERS every day for bad behavior. Losing a job flipping patties at Burger King because you cussed it a far cry from a Cop, Firemen, Teacher or Factory worker with years vested into a pension and a life spent bulding that career....being fired like it's as casual a thing as the burger flipper.

Now..I know I said this before..but I'll reiterate. I absolutely, positively, at NO TIME have implied or said the cop should NOT have been disciplined. He should have been. What he did was wrong. No question there. I wouldn't much appreciate being punched by a cop if I wasn't right in the middle of doing someting to ask for it. She obviously wasn't. This was VERY uncool......and a loss of temper. Bad thing.

A month or two to sit home and ponder it...would be devestating career wise and make his lapse in decency something he never..EVER...forgot. IT WOULD NOT HAVE DESTROYED HIM AND HIS FAMILY.

In avenging the fat lip of a woman, we ruin a man's life. Nice trade off...and the more I'm on this, the more disgusted I'm getting by how casually we've come to over-kill and just ruin people outright over moments of bad judgement where NO ACTUAL AND REAL INJURY OCCURRED.

Never mind all that though. He's a cop. Cops are wrong. Always. Never EVER any exception to throwing the book so hard at them, they fall over from it. In this case..... Grats.... If he had a family...they're destroyed too. ...but the sucker punch was avenged. It sure was.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

People lose their -jobs- every day for bad behavior. People do not lose their CAREERS every day for bad behavior. Losing a job flipping patties at Burger King because you cussed it a far cry from a Cop, Firemen, Teacher or Factory worker with years vested into a pension and a life spent bulding that career....being fired like it's as casual a thing as the burger flipper.

WOW! I am shocked that you made that statement. So if a school teacher would slap a student for wearing a Romney tee shirt, do you think that would be okay??? I mean according to your statement that teacher has a career, and apparently a waitress who has worked for 20 years at the same restaurant just has a job????

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


In avenging the fat lip of a woman, we ruin a man's life. Nice trade off...and the more I'm on this, the more disgusted I'm getting by how casually we've come to over-kill and just ruin people outright over moments of bad judgement where NO ACTUAL AND REAL INJURY OCCURRED.

The man ruined his own life, he was supposed to be upholding the law not breaking it.
That will teach him to break the very rules this guy was supposed to enforce in the first place.

No doubt this woman will never trust a cop again.The actual real injury being not just of
physical but of a mental aspect too and one that may haunt her for the rest of her life...

NO ACTUAL AND REAL INJURY OCCURRED

Really i suppose what we were seeing was played out CGI

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

So where is the line? Are cops to be fired on the spot...their careers destroyed....and to hell with their families...over a slap? How about profanity? If someone feels traumatized by verbal abuse...should that have their pension pulled too? NO INJURY OCCURRED HERE. So where is the destruction of the man's life warranted for it?

People lose their jobs every day for making mistakes!!! Don't see anyone crying over that! Shouldn't the police who are the law we look to for protection have a higher bar?

SLAP you say??? He sucker punched her from behind!!!!!

Would you defend this guy if he pulled his gun and shot this woman in the back? Whoopsy! He just had a bad day, we need to think of his family and we should let him keep his job! Seriously?????

Do you think these dirty cops give a snip about the families of the people they lock up in prison for non violent crimes!!!!!!!

I would've replied to Wrabbit in his reply to me, as I too have friends in policing, had he not mentioned slap. I'm done with he/she. This officer is/was a Lieutenant. In the video there not much in the way of knowing exactly what he delivered to the woman, but he bloodied her and felled her in the first instance. The violence of the blow is the most apparent thing in the video, and all over a water balloon? So to the first "Slap" was it a punch or the elbow? not much way of knowing, but it was definitely one or the other, and possibly another blow on the ground, I doubt if even the woman would know, but that's just my opinon. Has her ticket been dropped? I don't know that either. What I do think, is that good folks everywhere should be seriously concerned with the antics of officialdom on the streets.

You know, I might just become a lawyer.

Because this is just bs.

If I were a lawyer and I'd got a hold of this, I'd sue the man for anything I can and hold his department responsible until the guy was no longer a cop. Either pay up a lot of money to the woman who got hit or fire the guy.

Yes, I know what I said in earlier posts, and I still say getting water thrown on you is a punchable offense. And no this particular statement is not about the woman so stop with the strawman crap against me.

But this is taking an incident way too far and he needs to be held accountable for his actions and that money needs to go to the woman who got hit.

This fund raising thing is just a bit too much.

People need to fight back against this kind of thing.

And yes, while i won't lump all cops into one sum, I won't support junk like this.

It should've just ended with him getting fired for hitting the wrong person, and he should get another job other than being a cop.

Damn the butterfly effect.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The problem is he is a public official, therefor should be punished more severely wouldn't you think? Cops like to think of themselves as zoo keepers. So when they act like one of the animals, they should have the career obliterated. Obviously he is not level headed enough to handle his responsibility, if any other person other than a police officer ran up and socked her I'm sure the crowd would've beat him silly, but this guy has a gun a badge back up and can get away with murder. Your defense is illogical but I'm sure you see it as logical.

Originally posted by Komonazmuk
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The problem is he is a public official, therefor should be punished more severely wouldn't you think? Cops like to think of themselves as zoo keepers. So when they act like one of the animals, they should have the career obliterated. Obviously he is not level headed enough to handle his responsibility, if any other person other than a police officer ran up and socked her I'm sure the crowd would've beat him silly, but this guy has a gun a badge back up and can get away with murder. Your defense is illogical but I'm sure you see it as logical.

I think they should strip him of everything and send him to the zoo along with the other
animals..

I think a point that hasn't been addressed is that the cop in question wasn't an ordinary road officer or in anyway new to police work. Look again at the video - see how his white shirt stands out in the crowd? All the guys in blue are the regular cops.

He is the leader. He's the Lieutenant. He's the one who sets the example by following policy, or not following it. If this is the culture that the higher up cops in this department have, it will inevitably trickle down. They should make an example out of him.

He to whom much is given, much is expected of him.

The front-line supervisor was out of line. The lady who got pop wasn't even the one who threw the water but, she's out there being a nuisance with the rest of the morons who thought it was funny. I saw running around like a wild sheep. Instead, the officer thought it was her and he just had to hit something and she victim to a slapdown. She shouldn't have been there like the rest of them. Oh well it happens. Wrong place, wrong time.

Philadelphia has some very strict, unreasonable dirty laws and the police department is no different. That's why I say away from the northeast. I don't like those dirty cities. Instead, I keep it by the "cali rules"

Of course its no different here except, we get away with things.

So... A cop could, in theory, work their whole lives in decent standing, given the ups and downs of one of the worst jobs society has to offer a person. Then...in a moment of stupidity..they can lose every shred of that life's career, pension and everything.....because they hit a person once in the face?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I don't understand why you would find that surprising, surely you don't think that if i punched a customer in the face just once even though i have been a model employee for 30 years that i am going to keep my job?

these rules apply to everybodies jobs and careers surely? why would cops be exempt?

reply to post by TheOtter


That's a good point - and how it *should* work all the way around. Like if, in business, if an executive screws up he should get a harsher punishment than a rank and file employee. He is there to lead and be an example.

I'll admit it often isn't how it works, but its how it should..

For those defending him -

Just a couple of points. What example is showing for the lower ranked cops around him? Think the lower ranked cops will be as likely to punch first and figure out if its the right person later now or if he'd just gotten a slap on the wrist?

One more point / question - if the cameras weren't rolling would the lady be fighting charges now while the Lt. is sitting in the break-room while the others were saying, "Man - you really hit her good! HA! Way to go!"

reply to post by denver22


Great reply denver,

An assault, is a assault......it doesn't matter what status you're given..

Police shouldn't sink that low...they have a moral code to uphold.