Debates show another difference in Democrats and Republicans

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posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by jacksmoke
 





Ryan didn't respect sharing time and the moderator didn't enforce it.


No, Im sorry, Ryan finally started grabbing time because Biden was taking all the time he wanted and the moderator refused to stop him. So Ryan finally did what was necessary just to make a couple points. Then Biden started to whine about the time. It was almost a hilarious spectacle to watch.




posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by MoEskiMo
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


I think that these two debates seem to be an excellent way of testing people. It was kind of the flip reversal attitude in the debates, and both times I see and hear republicans being bullies.
I am not telling you how I am going to vote, nor what all my political views are. But I do see a trend, a downward spiral in social skills more so on the republican side. All the way around it seems there is a battle betwext the dem and reps from the republicans judging everyone and deciding where they want your butt to be seated or standing. The rep party today is such a bizarre social stance.
Seriously, they say no to gay power/choices( and seriously, it changes nothing for your life, right, so let them marry, geez), and then they say "no" to women about their rights with their own bodies(anti anything about her own birthing rights), and I know not all rep's are THIS extreme, but, it is an overwhelming majority.
I feel like no matter how the democrats handle the debate(s) the rep's are going to bully, insult, and degrade the debating parties. It is so bizarre to me.
Is there something else going on here? What am I missing?
edit on 12-10-2012 by MoEskiMo because: Why are we not focusing on jobs, the deficit, and who want US jobs to grow and be here in the US?
edit on 12-10-2012 by MoEskiMo because: add a question /comment


First, thanks for actually seeing the purpose of the thread.
I agree that there is a lot of bullying (both sides do it)
You seem to be seeing the same trend I do.

From what I've seen, the initial reaction is very important.
After Obama lost his debate, there was a small group who was upset and did bring up the notes/cheating thing, but mostly they focused on what Obama did wrong (his supporters).
With Ryan's loss, they immediately focused on everything BUT Ryan.

I see the "Democrat" side as holding their guy accountable for losing and the "Republican" side as trying to blame it on someone else. In each case, it ws the fault of the guy who lost, not the fault of anyone else. The Republican side reminds me of the people who watch one team beat another in the Super Bowl, then claim it was the referees fault that their team lost, or the other team cheated or somebody did this or somebody did that, never, not once putting the blame where it belongs.

Not "ALL" Republicans/conservatives do this of course, nor do all Democrats/liberals put the blame where it goes, but it is the vast majority and that's the point of the thread. After the initial post people either claimed he didn't really lose (and he definitely lost) or the moderator favored Biden, or Biden didn't let him speak or "blah, blah, blah" instead of just saying "Wow, Ryan sure blew that one".

It's my belief that a large portion have been so dishonest for so long to so many people, that now they can't even be honest with themselves.... or those who aren't exactly "bright" don't know what honesty is, therefore they aren't capable of practicing it.

Just as in any group, there are outliers and some of the more intelligent of the group have shown different behaviors, but the majority have shown exactly what was outlined here.

That's the point the thread was making.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by AudioOne
 


The two debates were carbon copies of one another except for one detail, the sides were flipped. The purpose of this thread is to show the hypocrisy that is involved. For the "R" side, they're fine with certain behaviors as long as it's coming from them, they get very defensive if it comes from the other side.



I'm also amazed that people who apparently use the internet a great deal are incapable of reading time stamps, but... that's another thread at another time....




edit on 13-10-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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The only thing I took from the debate was Biden interrupting Ryan so he could not get his point across. If you can't argue facts, then interrupt and laugh. The one quote of Biden " Did you think the depression(bad economy) just fell out of the sky''
Of course it didn't, it was a direct impact created by Franks and Dodd under Clinton.. democrats and Bush didn't help it either by letting the lax loan regulations in place.

Ryan was definitely more professional, Biden was just plain irritating to me with his constant interruptions and laughter.
I'm a Ron Paul supporter.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by mugger
The only thing I took from the debate was Biden interrupting Ryan so he could not get his point across. If you can't argue facts, then interrupt and laugh. The one quote of Biden " Did you think the depression(bad economy) just fell out of the sky''
Of course it didn't, it was a direct impact created by Franks and Dodd under Clinton.. democrats and Bush didn't help it either by letting the lax loan regulations in place.

Ryan was definitely more professional, Biden was just plain irritating to me with his constant interruptions and laughter.
I'm a Ron Paul supporter.


Regardless of the methodology, he succeeded in his goal. He won the debate as shown by public opinion polling (the time stamps are important on the polls even though some are unable to comprehend that).
Ryan supporters don't have to LIKE the fact that he lost, but he still lost. They don't have to LIKE the way it was done, but it doesn't change the outcome.

I didn't LIKE the things bush did in office, but he still did them. I didn't LIKE that Obama lost the first POTUS debate, but he still lost. You don't LIKE that Ryan lost the VP debate, but he still lost.

The big difference is that with Obama's loss, his supporters focused on what HE did wrong, they admitted that he lost it due to his own behaviors. Ryan's supporters are having trouble doing that and it's a psychological issue. Ryan lost the debate. He could have acted differently and countered what they feel was objectionable from the other side, but he didn't. This was all on him. He lost.
The Ryan supporters need to stop focusing on what Biden did and focus on what Ryan DIDN'T do, otherwise, they lose the whole thing with a a defeatist attitude.

If he isn't strong enough to counter an opponent in a debate, he won't be strong enough to lead the country. Ryan's lack of experience showed. Biden walked all over him and Biden won. Part of being a man is being able to take control of the situation, Ryan didn't do that. It doesn't matter how Biden acted or didn't act, it's Ryan's fault he lost because he didn't step up to the challenge and prevent being ran over and distracted. Biden did his job, Ryan didn't do his job. You don't have to LIKE it, but that's what happened.


edit on 13-10-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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As a completely neutral observer (I'm from the UK), I have to say there was only one winner of that debate, and the winner was Biden, even if he was rude and disrespectful at times.


Why?


The Republicans have zero policies. Zero. They say they are going to do this and that within a political field, yet refuse to disclose how they are going to achieve it, every single time they are questioned on it. Every single time, they found an excuse not to disclose the mechanisms of their proposals. If I were American, this would set alarm bells off in my head immediately.


The democrats, however, have outlined their policies, with the mechanism's they plan to put into place, to try to achieve the goals of those policies. Even though I think some of those policies are flawed and short sighted in some respects.



By the way folks, those little 'hug-a-fests' at the end of the debates with families, are so false and scripted, it is sickening. It's like Lassie, the Waltons and Bambi all rolled into a 20 second sick-a-thon.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher
 


Precisely. It was Ryan's job to counter whatever Biden did regardless of what it may be. He didn't do that. He lost. Biden got him off guard and took full advantage of it, that was his job. Ryan did not do what he should have done, so he lost.

It's not a matter of whining about the other side did this and the other side did that, the moderator was mean to him, he had a dry mouth, all that stuff...

He did not do what he needed to do to win the debate. Instead of discussing what he could have done differently, his supporters keep "whining" that "they were mean to him", his supporters aren't doing their job either. We need to hold our leaders and our candidates responsible. He did not win the debate and the fault is all on him. He can't control what Biden does or doesn't do, he can't control what the moderator does or doesn't do, he can only control his reactions to them and he did a lousy job at it, so, he lost.

Maybe that's the crux, instead of controlling their own reactions, his supporters want to cry out and have somebody else fix it for them. We are all responsible for our own reactions, whining and crying doesn't solve anything, taking a stand and doing your part does solve things. Ryan was a "child" debating an "adult" (who may or may not have acted in a childish manner, that makes no difference). He didn't step up to the plate, so he lost. The fault is 100% on him. His loss is 100% on him. He's supposed to be a man, so he was wide open to whatever reaction he chose to use, he used the wrong one and got beat.

Whether it is the result of a generation of helicopter parents or a result of people being led like sheep and expecting things to be handed to them as the conservative base is prone to do, or whether he just isn't equipped to "run with the big dogs", he failed. His supporters continue to fail because they are unable to see that. This wasn't a high school debate class, it was the debate between the VP candidates for office. If he's not man enough to pull his weight, he doesn't need to be in the position.

It would be very interesting to have a second debate for the VP candidates to see if the approaches are different, but there is only one VP debate. Biden made full use of the opportunity and that's why he won.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Yes, I read your OP and then many pages of discussion. My point is that I do not think this debate was a carbon copy of the first debate with the sides flipped. As this is opinion I am not saying you are wrong, but I am stating that I do not agree with you. That said, I can read, and made my post because I disagree with your premise, as much as I would like to agree with you, as I do prefer the democrat to republican policy.

What do time stamps have to with anything? I read your opinion on a debate, I gave my opinion. The only relevant thing time has to do with it is that we both stated our opinions after the debate and not before.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
The Republicans have zero policies. Zero. They say they are going to do this and that within a political field, yet refuse to disclose how they are going to achieve it, every single time they are questioned on it. Every single time, they found an excuse not to disclose the mechanisms of their proposals. If I were American, this would set alarm bells off in my head immediately.


Yep....like when Biden said, "ok so you keep criticizing us on Syria, what would you do about it?"
(long criticism of what the administration is doing with Syria)
"You're still not saying what you would do. Tell everyone what you would do."
"Well we wouldn't go to the UN." Ryan

freakin ridiculous. I don't really care for Obama, and won't be voting for him.....but how can people not see Romney and Ryan are full of #. Those direct quotes are a great summary of ALL of their positions.

"Oh we have a great plan that will fix the deficit, lower taxes, and increase military spending."
"I'd love to see the math for that."
"Oh we've worked out all the math. It works."
"Ok, show it to us"
"We can't. But trust us. The math works out. Trust us!"
(Not direct quotes, but captures the EXACT meaning of what was said.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by AudioOne
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Yes, I read your OP and then many pages of discussion. My point is that I do not think this debate was a carbon copy of the first debate with the sides flipped. As this is opinion I am not saying you are wrong, but I am stating that I do not agree with you. That said, I can read, and made my post because I disagree with your premise, as much as I would like to agree with you, as I do prefer the democrat to republican policy.

What do time stamps have to with anything? I read your opinion on a debate, I gave my opinion. The only relevant thing time has to do with it is that we both stated our opinions after the debate and not before.


There were internet polls immediately following the debate and they kept a running count. Some ... not-so-bright people keep refrencing the polls with only a few hundred respondents (mostly conservative) with a time stamp on them of 11pm the night of the debate showing they were hardly conclusive in any way, shape or form. It's pointed out to them time and again, so they find an article that cites them as well with the link to the exact same poll with the exact same time stamp but try to claim they are more recent and they aren't.
Either they think people are dumb enough to fall for that or they themselves are dumb enough to fall for it, but I will continue to point it out so any semi-intelligent person viewing the posts will know the difference.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by loam
 



What I saw during the debate was a disgraceful display of disrespect and lack of statesmanship on the part of the Vice President of the United States.


What you saw was an upstart getting his ass handed to him by the current Vice President of the United States of America

Biden - the man many (including Democrats) were kinda thinking might open his mouth and push this thing over the edge

What you saw was a good old fashioned political debate - the kind I wish we saw more often

Emotion - passion - rudeness

Yes - OMG yes! Thankfully, finally - an almost brawl

except Ryan didn't show up for the brawl part - too bad for his guys

All of this is just my opinion of course

:-)

But here's the thing - everyone keeps looking to the polls to support their position when any honest observer already knows what's what. Polls are just based on opinion - they can't really determine who won

The biased and liberal press almost unanimously declared Obama the loser before the polls were even done coming in - and the next few days we saw just about everybody chiming in with the same opinion

Obama choked - and the OP (thank you Chiten) has made a very interesting point



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 

You r a smirkey little thing arent you.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by girlofmountain1
reply to post by PurpleChiten
 

You r a smirkey little thing arent you.


Yes, yes I am



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 


Ryan did not "lose". I think there must be a perception among liberals that the person who is loudest wins, which is surprising seeing that Obama did not shout. As much as I dislike Obama, he is still a more respectful debater than Biden, though I did see a similar smirking with him, it just wasn't as pronounced and manic.
There is no consensus on who "won" in this debate.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


Maybe that was what you saw. What I saw was a polite young guy being completely bullied not only by a seasoned Senator/VP but also by a very biased moderator. I love a good roving debate myself, but this was just a disgrace. Biden's smirking did not convince me that he has real answers, all it convinced me of is he is a party hack and it showed. He looked more like a used car salesman to me.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by PurpleChiten
 





There were internet polls immediately following the debate and they kept a running count. Some ... not-so-bright people keep refrencing the polls with only a few hundred respondents (mostly conservative) with a time stamp on them of 11pm the night of the debate showing they were hardly conclusive in any way, shape or form. It's pointed out to them time and again, so they find an article that cites them as well with the link to the exact same poll with the exact same time stamp but try to claim they are more recent and they aren't.


Either that or the media suddenly decided they better start spinning it. Nothing like a good Internet whitewash to water down reality.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by Ghost375
 





"Well we wouldn't go to the UN." Ryan


Yes, he's absolutely right. I totally agree with him on this. Why do you Nanny Stater Utopians love the UN and all that World Govt stuff?


edit on 14-10-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by girlofmountain1
 


Think of the Chiten this way: The Chiten is a lovable but bratty younger sibling. The Chiten likes to win by declaring that The Chiten won. It is always up for debate when The Chiten says something is so. Know the rules of a Chiten thread going in and you will be able to maintain your own objectivity and sense of humor.

Also The Chiten loves to have the last word... now you know.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
Every single time, they found an excuse not to disclose the mechanisms of their proposals. If I were American, this would set alarm bells off in my head immediately.


In America that would take critical thought, America rejects critical thought and embraces shallow
idiocy.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by girlofmountain1
 


Think of the Chiten this way: The Chiten is a lovable but bratty younger sibling. The Chiten likes to win by declaring that The Chiten won. It is always up for debate when The Chiten says something is so. Know the rules of a Chiten thread going in and you will be able to maintain your own objectivity and sense of humor.

Also The Chiten loves to have the last word... now you know.


You've got a crush on me don't you?







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