Evolution and Creationism is easy as math.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by HappyBunny


The problem is that "logical methodical explanation" isn't in the creationist's lexicon. I don't know how much more dumbed down you want it. If you don't understand it the way it's written, then educate yourself until you do. That's what critical thinkers do. They can admit that they don't know or understand something...and then they read everything they can, or ask people, until the DO understand it.

You are hacking and slashing every atheist on earth who cant explain evolution, not just Christians.
You would eat (metaphorically) your own children to justify your faith.

Oh please, stop being so melodramatic. My children are free to choose whatever religion they want, and yet I've raised them to take science seriously and to understand that religious mumbo jumbo isn't what's going to get you somewhere in life. A good background in the sciences is how they're going to be able to compete with other kids from all over the world and get a good job.

You're conflating "atheist" with "evolutionist."

Do you believe evolution is 100% fact? No doubts at all? That is faith.

I do not believe in evolution as a religion. It isn't a religion. Evolution is based on 200 years of experimentation, observation, and verifiable predictions. I accept it as true because to do otherwise is just illogical.

If you want to disprove evolution, just find me a mammal fossil dated to the Precambrian. That's all you have to do.

I mean why even study evolution ifits so true, why does anyone care if the evidence is so solid.

That's coward's way out. To say that because we're still studying it because we don't know it's true is just boneheaded and deliberately obtuse. We study it because we can learn a lot about the past and make predictions for the future. If everyone stopped studying gravity and relativity--or do you deny those also?--and we wouldn't have most of modern physics.

Yet so many evolutionists disagree with you, more non boneheaded less obtuse ones than me...evidently.

Here are 15 questions that demand an answer, the questions are reasonable and logical and should have a simple answer most people can understand, should have if evolution is reasonable and logical.


How did life originate?

How did the DNA code originate?

How could mutations—accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, deleted or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.)—create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things?
Why is natural selection, a principle recognized by creationists, taught as ‘evolution’,
How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate?
Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed?

How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?

How did sex originate? Video on Question 8
Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing?

How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame?

How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality
Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated? Evolutionists often use flexible story-telling to ‘explain’ observations contrary to evolutionary theory

Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution?

Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work; how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science?

Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes?


See you keep saying I am obtuse and a bonehead and infer what not but listed are some serious issues with the evolutionary religion.

See evolution is still being studied because those questions go unanswered, your faith is valid to believe its true but the evidence suggests otherwise. Studies continue because there are no answers yet.....


Now I dont expect you to answer the questions or even try to. Please dont, far greater minds than yours have tried and failed. All I am stating for you to see is that without the answers your belief in evolution is nothing more than a faith. Its akin to religion, sure its not religious (atheism is a religion though) but it demands much faith.

Considering all the questions that DEMAND an answer I suggest your faith needs a little exposure.

See when you call me a dummy or bonehead or whatever I can show you valid questions that cant be answered properly.
creation.com...

Sorry but these questions explain why you are irrelevant and I dont rate you or your religious mates.
Cheers

Originally posted by borntowatch
Yet so many evolutionists disagree with you, more non boneheaded less obtuse ones than me...evidently.

Disagree as to what?

Here are 15 questions that demand an answer, the questions are reasonable and logical and should have a simple answer most people can understand, should have if evolution is reasonable and logical.

Go take a high school biology class. The answers to all your questions are found there. Although your question "how did the DNA code originate" is stupid: DNA is not a code, and from there the rest of your questions are meaningless.

reply to post by borntowatch

How did life originate?

We don't know...and its not what the theory of evolution discusses anyway.

How did the DNA code originate?

We don't know...and again, that's not something that concerns the theory of evolution.

How could mutations—accidental copying mistakes (DNA ‘letters’ exchanged, deleted or added, genes duplicated, chromosome inversions, etc.)—create the huge volumes of information in the DNA of living things?

We have a pretty good understanding of how that works since we observed it so many times.

Google "mutations"

Why is natural selection, a principle recognized by creationists, taught as ‘evolution’,

Because it's a KEY ELEMENT of evolution

Read about the theory, at least the Wiki article...that way you wouldn't have questions like this one

How did new biochemical pathways, which involve multiple enzymes working together in sequence, originate?

The theory of evolution explains that and we see it happen in front of our days every single day.

Living things look like they were designed, so how do evolutionists know that they were not designed?

Because we know how today's biodiversity came to be...and what you call "design" is nothing but the product of physical forces and biological processes. Again, the theory of evolution describes this perfectly...and also makes it abundantly clear that no magic (aka a god or gods) were necessary for it.

At least read up on the theory, because so far you are asking questions that the theory answers...

How did multi-cellular life originate? How did cells adapted to individual survival ‘learn’ to cooperate and specialize (including undergoing programmed cell death) to create complex plants and animals?

A simple Google search would have answered that question for you: LINK

We KNOW it worked that way because it's STILL happening...

How did sex originate?

Google is your friend

Why are the (expected) countless millions of transitional fossils missing?

Fossils only form under very specific conditions...which doesn't mean you can't draw conclusions. We have millions of transitional fossils.

To give you an example:

We could find remains of one of your ancestors from 500 years ago and test his DNA. We could then test your DNA without ever looking at your ancestors between that guy and you...and guess what, we could still figure out you're related.

The "missing link" argument is complete and utter nonsense.

How do ‘living fossils’ remain unchanged over supposed hundreds of millions of years, if evolution has changed worms into humans in the same time frame?

They aren't unchanged, the changes are just small. Take the crocodile for example. While it looks very similar to its ancestors, and the genetic changes are small, today's crocodile couldn't mate with its ancestor. The reason they didn't change all that much is because they didn't have to, the environmental changes didn't force them to adapt as drastically as other species.

How did blind chemistry create mind/ intelligence, meaning, altruism and morality

Morality comes from society, not some genetic trait...that's why we have different morals in different parts of the world. As for intelligence, that's connected to brain size and the theory of evolution explains how that happened perfectly fine. As for meaning, what meaning? Everyone has a different meaning...it's totally subjective and not genetic.

Why is evolutionary ‘just-so’ story-telling tolerated? Evolutionists often use flexible story-telling to ‘explain’ observations contrary to evolutionary theory

Example?

Bit ironic that you talk about "story telling" when your entire belief is based on a FICTIONAL BOOK that is DEMONSTRABLY wrong in HUNDREDS of cases

Where are the scientific breakthroughs due to evolution?

You mean aside from penicillin, gene technology, and a TOOOON of meds that wouldn't be possible if the theory were wrong?

Science involves experimenting to figure out how things work; how they operate. Why is evolution, a theory about history, taught as if it is the same as this operational science?

Because it's been observed, tested, and hell...we even APPLY the theory in modern medicine.

Why is a fundamentally religious idea, a dogmatic belief system that fails to explain the evidence, taught in science classes?

The theory of evolution isn't a religion, it's based on tested and applied FACTS and evidence.

reply to post by borntowatch

See you keep saying I am obtuse and a bonehead and infer what not but listed are some serious issues with the evolutionary religion.

They're only "serious issues" to someone who applies the GOD OF THE GAPS ("science can't explain that, ergo god did it") and someone who apparently doesn't even understand the theory in the first place (like you). The scientific consensus is OVERWHELMING. There are more scientists called Steve (not Stephen, Steven, or any other form!!) than scientists who don't believe in evolution. The percentage is even higher in fields that are directly related to the theory (like medicine or biology).

See evolution is still being studied because those questions go unanswered, your faith is valid to believe its true but the evidence suggests otherwise. Studies continue because there are no answers yet.....

It's still being studied just like gravity is still being studied...or thermodynamics.

Just because you can count 1 + 1 = 2 doesn't mean you should stop learning math...and it doesn't mean 1 + 1 doesn't equal 2

Now I dont expect you to answer the questions or even try to. Please dont, far greater minds than yours have tried and failed.

They clearly weren't "great minds"...or clearly haven't taken a basic biology class

All I am stating for you to see is that without the answers your belief in evolution is nothing more than a faith. Its akin to religion, sure its not religious (atheism is a religion though) but it demands much faith.

It really doesn't

Why not? Because it follows scientific method which means it has to be backed up by OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and FACTS...and subjective beliefs (like in religion) aren't allowed. So yeah, it's definitely not a religion

I suggest you educate yourself and stop visiting pseudo-scientific clown sites like creation.com. Buy a biology book, take a class, read the Wiki article...for crying out loud stop being so ignorant towards facts and reality.

And you know what's really sad? All those arguments you just mentioned have been proven to be nonsense...but my guess is, that won't stop you from simply reusing them over and over and over again. Your mind is so closed from reality, you simply ignore everything (even facts!) if they stand in the way of your fixed belief. That's the very definition of ignorance

I am not a man of faith in science, no evidence is not evidence.
You dont address the questions with evidence only belief, only your questionable understanding based on your faith.
Pathetic, utterly pathetic.

Prove DNA isnt a code. Again what a petty argument based on belief.

reply to post by borntowatch

I am not a man of faith in science

The beauty about science is that it doesn't take faith...because theories like evolution have to follow scientific method. That means they have to back up their claims with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and FACTS. You don't need faith if those prove your theory

no evidence is not evidence

I agree. And since there's NO EVIDENCE for a creator, we can clearly state that there is none.

You dont address the questions with evidence only belief

It's not a belief...it's a scientific theory.

scientific method

only your questionable understanding based on your faith.

Wow, nice case of projection

Are you describing yourself? Because unlike the theory of evolution, your claims aren't backed up by objective evidence and facts.

Pathetic, utterly pathetic.

Yup

Prove DNA isnt a code.

The way we interpret it is as a code, because we think in mathematical terms in science. DNA isn't like a string of letters!!

Either way, and then what? Pretty much everything you can express in mathematical terms is a code. The frequency of a pulsar can be expressed as an equation. Yet where's the proof of an intelligent designer?

The only truthful current answer is that we simply don't know. What we do know however is how biodiversity came to be once first life came into play. And we also know that no intelligent designer was required for that because we have objective evidence for those physical and biological processes. We can explain them!!! No magic required.

Again, read up on the theory because I think you simply never bothered to.

Again what a petty argument based on belief.

Aaaand another case of projection. You do realise you're describing yourself, right?

I am not questioning my beliefs as a faith, I READILY admit that.
You are demanding yours is science yet cant produce the evidence

Wake up to the bonehead belief you hold, talk about obtuse, can you understand you demand others accept your beliefs are a science without evidence.
Science by definition MUST be repeatable observable and testable, your religious beliefs fall way short
The questions stand, they prove you are a believer in the religion of science.

Evolution is proven....yeah right...bonehead.
The questions prove otherwise.

Dont argue with me, explain the evidence that answers the questions

Answer the questions logically and methodically

Answer the questions logically and methodically

You answer the questions I will accept evolution and become an atheist

Answer the questions logically and methodically

Answer the questions logically and methodically

reply to post by borntowatch


Assuming there was "nothing" is rather bold. Most would like to see how that equation started.

I apologize for picking on christianity but what if something that was "true" in the bible was proven incorrect?

Example Noahs' ark? The demensions are given in the bible plus what it was supposed to hold. There is some math for you.

Food for thought: Paper does not deny ink.

reply to post by Dynamike


So where did the universe come from then???

reply to post by borntowatch

Science by definition MUST be repeatable observable and testable,

Yes, and the theory of evolution is repeatable, observable, and testable. Hell, we even APPLY it in modern medicine!!

Seems like you don't have the slightest clue about the theory you're attacking, I suggest you educate yourself and read up before further commenting...that is, unless you don't mind looking like an ignorant fool.

Hilarious how your religious brainwashing completely prevents you from accepting reality. Your entire arguments are this:

1) Evolution isn't backed up by evidence...which of course is a childishly stupid comment.
2) "Science can't explain that, ergo god did it"...which of course is the god of the gaps where you fill a gap in knowledge (like how first life started for example) with MAGIC.

Really sad to see something like that in the 21st century, it means our education system is clearly failing.

And I have answered your questions above, your religious brainwashing simply makes you ignore it.

reply to post by borntowatch


Dude the good fellows have answered your questions and explained everything to do with evolution and you still just shout "tra la la la la".
I agree with others here, some people are just to close minded to accept the truth even if layed out for them....poor sods.

Anyhoose, cheers for the lesson Barcs,XYB and Hbunny you have taught me some stuff today.


Oh and borntowatch you have said I quote "You answer the questions I will accept evolution and become an atheist
"
Well they answered them and in a court of law...well you selling your bibles?

Originally posted by Bakerswoe
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Assuming there was "nothing" is rather bold. Most would like to see how that equation started.

I apologize for picking on christianity but what if something that was "true" in the bible was proven incorrect?

Example Noahs' ark? The demensions are given in the bible plus what it was supposed to hold. There is some math for you.

Food for thought: Paper does not deny ink.

edit on 3-11-2012 by Bakerswoe because: because

Your assumptions are based on hearsay not evidence, I would think. Why not state what your issues are with the ark story, with the maths.
The dimensions are sound and the animals were identifies as cargo. I see no issues.

There were no solid scientific answers.
Q)How did sex originate..
A)Google is your friend? and googles answer has a Google of theories.
Thats not science thats faith
There were no answers explained. Every one was sidestepped

I was just attacked personally, that was the answer.
That is the evolutionist answer.
You dont understand so you are dumb


Answer the questions logically and methodically.
Christianity is a faith
Evolution is a faith till it is logically and methodically explained. You cant do that
and I think its funny

reply to post by borntowatch


So basically you are saying "I don't understand evolution and therefore consider it a faith".

Do you fully understand electricity? Because I don't see you doubting that

Or gravity

How about you do a bit of real research (as in: don't go to clownish sites like creation.com) instead of remaining ignorant? Because you can't expect us to take you serious otherwise... Your ignorance (and seeming willingness to remain so) isn't an excuse.

According to the OP I know basic math and can't understand advanced math. Although it seems rather arrogant, he may be right. I proceed with caution, though. Usually with arrogance, humility comes later. In my experience arrogance usually gives way to wisdom.


I just have a hard time with certain types of evolution.
Evolution, meaning changes taking place across time.
#1
Chemical evolution - Chemicals becoming emergent and somehow forming into the first living organism.
#2
Large scale evolution - Whales evolving from a land animal, and my tulip and I have a common ancestor.

What are some explanations?

reply to post by addygrace

According to the OP I know basic math and can't understand advanced math. Although it seems rather arrogant, he may be right. I proceed with caution, though. Usually with arrogance, humility comes later. In my experience arrogance usually gives way to wisdom.


I just have a hard time with certain types of evolution.
Evolution, meaning changes taking place across time.
#1
Chemical evolution - Chemicals becoming emergent and somehow forming into the first living organism.
#2
Large scale evolution - Whales evolving from a land animal, and my tulip and I have a common ancestor.

What are some explanations?

I'm not a biochemist or paleontologist, but I think I can answer your questions from a lay level of understanding.

Chemical evolution is somewhat of a misnomer. If you're talking about nucleosynthesis, as in forming new elements, that happens with supernovae all the time. But I think you're talking about the chemical reactions and subsequent bonds that lead to organic matter, which is abiogenesis. Neither one is evolution. Seriously.

With "large scale evolution", you and the tulip are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Your common ancestor is a long way away - animals first appeared over 600 million years ago.

As for whales, they're mammals. Their ancestor started dwelling in the seas about 50 million years ago.

Abiogenesis is evolution, it is the start of it. Life evolving from nothing.

Dust and water then life evolves

Work it out

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by borntowatch

 

So basically you are saying "I don't understand evolution and therefore consider it a faith".

Do you fully understand electricity? Because I don't see you doubting that

Or gravity

How about you do a bit of real research (as in: don't go to clownish sites like creation.com) instead of remaining ignorant? Because you can't expect us to take you serious otherwise... Your ignorance (and seeming willingness to remain so) isn't an excuse.

I do FULLY understand electricity and have a good knowledge of gravity, seen them work in their respective processes as well. They are not the problem I have identified either or the answer to the questions I asked.

Dont wet your pants or side step the issue, this is not about gravity or electricity, deal with the answers re evolution. If you think you cant, try start one at a time, answer 1 a week and shut me up.
I have researched many nonsense atheistic evolutard sites and have seen no answers. If you state its provable then show me.
I see no evidence. Crteation is a faith, so is evolution. Thats the starting point, prove me wrong if you can, you are arguing against my positione. Walk away if you cant defend your position (thats my suggestion)
Put all the happy smiley faces you like on when you do that.

Again and again and again I will ask

deal with the answers re evolution
deal with the answers re evolution
deal with the answers re evolution

I have no other questions than those, say what you like but your lack of answers condemns your argument as vague if not blatantly boneheaded.

reply to post by borntowatch


You need to go back a few posts, he HAS answered your questions...you have just chosen to ignore them.