Someone try to convince me that 'mainstream' aercheologists and other scientists are BS

Hi, good evening everyone. I am a scientist. Not a very impressive one, but Im young and hopeful. I am NOT educated above street level in any field that I would prefer to discuss in this topic. If you don't mind, I have had quite enough in the science forum of non-classical and for that matter, classical physical sciences. This includes any cosmology or astrophysics. I guess its not a demand, but a request.
*uses nicest voice possible

I would like to invite anyone who is willing to use complete thoughts, and source their findings(I wont require peer review, ONLY because I assume part of the argument must pertain to peer reviewed journals.)to convince me that the entire geology, archeology, anthropology, and/or evolutionary biology field as a whole is unable to take into account evidence that would hold up to the scientific method. That means most of your eye witness accounts are gunna mean dirt. Gotta be cold hard facts. I understand a good percentage of valuable proof could be easily concealed by any one of the large Governing bodies throughout history. This does not mean all proof of giants, Atlantis being anything but a story, evolution being wrong could be destroyed. With the vastness of our different reasearch programs in all fields of study, what has been so compelling to influence such a strong belief in such theories? And even more to the point, what makes you distrust such a liberal group as the scientists?
I MUST say biologists are usually very odd and would love to find out that aliens had altered our DNA. Geez, I would too! So convince me!

The Oxford English Dictionary says that scientific method is: "a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses

There really isn't an argument to be made in this case. Take everything you read, hear, learn, etc with a grain of salt. Nothing is 100% true, nothing is 100% a lie. Its for you to determine for yourself. MSM scientists and archaeologist of course will give some truth, but will gives some lies for you to believe them more.

I have a degree in biology, some day I want to be a doctor. I have a degree in biology because I like learning how life works, the biological and chemical factors including outside influences such as gravity, radiation, and what not. But not just that, studying, experimenting has taught me anything is possible, if you can think it, it probably exists somewhere, some time.

The fact that nothing truly can be proven makes anyone speak "truth". But how you present the subject to people gives it credibility in a way. If you can give a theory that explains something, even if it is not what is considered orthodox, people will believe you....

Just look at ancient aliens......look at the popularity of the show... a lot of people believe in it. I'm not saying it is true, but because it is presented in such a way to make the theory or idea believable, gives its truth. That is how MSM archeologists and scientists do it.

Look at sales people, for example, a great salesman can sell you anything for a price. A bad salesman won't be able to sell you anything more than free.

So I would like to say, there is no hard proof to disprove anything. Truth is about how well you can make your argument, and how many you people you can get to believe in you.

reply to post by ubeenhad

Something that I always thought was funny and a very simple way to show our science is wrong in many ways is the corona of the sun. Its temperature violates thermodynamics. Science says it should be colder. Yet its one of the hottest parts.

Isn't it good that science is wrong though? Shows that we have more to discover . However when people refuse to accept the science that they are heavily invested in is wrong it just holds back our species

why convince if you cant see with your own eyes, or only see what you want with your own eyes, how can anyone convince you?

Originally posted by Mandrakerealmz
reply to post by ubeenhad

 

Something that I always thought was funny and a very simple way to show our science is wrong in many ways is the corona of the sun. Its temperature violates thermodynamics. Science says it should be colder. Yet its one of the hottest parts.

Isn't it good that science is wrong though? Shows that we have more to discover

. However when people refuse to accept the science that they are heavily invested in is wrong it just holds back our species

I told myself I wouldn't bite. haha but your second part touches my point. Scientists ESPECIALLY in physics want the main theories to be wrong! That means they have a chance to be the ones to fix it! We are obviously skeptical, and for good reason, but if the chance is there we will look at the data and atleast a few will objectively even if the evidence is not that compelling. If it is, then well, you know about the FTL neutrinos right? haha.

And the corona problem honestly isn't saying anything about thermodynamics. Its saying we don't understand magnetic fields in this context well enough.

Originally posted by shadowreborn89
why convince if you cant see with your own eyes, or only see what you want with your own eyes, how can anyone convince you?

No dude. Im easy. I only need some evidence and my eyes will open on up.

reply to post by ubeenhad


I have always been fascinated with "forbidden" archaeology and my journey eventually led me to a gentleman - Mr Klaus Dona. Somewhat ridiculed by MS peers but equally respected by others, he has amassed quite an array of artifacts that are very interesting, to say the least.

When the opportunity arises, take a good look through his website (and the links within) and have a watch of this YT clip.

I have presented some of his stuff in my "Earths Unsolved X-Files" threads.

S&F - am keen to see what others may provide so will keep an eye on this thread.

Klaus Dona

first off i just want to say THANK YOU for being open minded, secondly nothing anyone can give you is gonna be "concrete" because alot has been done to destroy and hide such evidence.

ill start with saying 90% of disease can be cured. including every type of cancer. also your body can adapt to AIDS and it will never kill you.

Your blood and organs contain an extremely high level of toxins due to the high level of toxic materials in the air, the water, all non organic food, medications, the clothes you wear and the couches you sit on in front of the tv. the last 2 are not as bad as the first 3. over time these toxins build up and up and up, and your body can only process and deal with so much untill you get sick and die. but do note that anyone can get cancer at any age, but none the less this can be cured. all you have to do is a complete and thorough detoxification of all bodily organs, change your diet and exercise.

this goes for anyone who suffers from acne, haemorrhoids etc as well. Your doctor or dermatologist obviously will not agree with this. you can't make money off a cured patient. do you know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars it costs to get chemo therapy? it costs 72000/year to use a dialyses machine. imagine how much money the hospitals and pharma will lose.... but in the end it isnt about them

Originally posted by Sublimecraft

I heard him on C2CAM. He seems exactly like the main guys in Ufology.

I have actually read all 5 of those topics and I found them VERY interesting. Until I did a little side research on a few. Now I must admit that it is not very proffesional of me to make a judgment without fully investigating, but the few I did could be explained, or the more interesting details are up for debate, or have no known factual standing. For example off the top of my head, those Russian campers found mutilated and naked?
I could find no evidence that they ever gave off radiation. It seems to just be a rumor mixed in with the facts.

you could probably apply the scientific method to the holocaust and end up sounding like mahmoud ahmadinejad.

you can't discount eyewitness testimony, especially when you have thousands saying they witnessed the same event.

like wise, if it doesn't fit your hypothesis you can't chime in and write it all off by citing non-existent and implausible explanations like "mass hysteria" or swamp gas.

so to me, mass eyewitnesses to an event like ufo's or the miracle of the sun at fatima, are just as reliable as fact as anything proven by the scientific method.

to discount ufo's because it didn't leave a microscopic piece of metal behind to analyse is like claiming cars don't exist because there isn't a spark plug on your drive way.

even though you've seen one, owned one and billions of people can testify to their existence.

Originally posted by 1beerplease

For the record, I believe the same MFers that took us to war in Iraq and Afganistan were the same ones that killed JFK and RFK. I believe aliens are a cover to keep the conspiracy theorists busy and distracted.

So I am really open minded.

But I have done extensive research on these topics, along with chemtrails etc. I would like to keep on what many call forbidden archeology.

Originally posted by randomname
you could probably apply the scientific method to the holocaust and end up sounding like mahmoud ahmadinejad.

you can't discount eyewitness testimony, especially when you have thousands saying they witnessed the same event.

like wise, if it doesn't fit your hypothesis you can't chime in and write it all off by citing non-existent and implausible explanations like "mass hysteria" or swamp gas.

so to me, mass eyewitnesses to an event like ufo's or the miracle of the sun at fatima, are just as reliable as fact as anything proven by the scientific method.

to discount ufo's because it didn't leave a microscopic piece of metal behind to analyse is like claiming cars don't exist because there isn't a spark plug on your drive way.

even though you've seen one, owned one and billions of people can testify to their existence.

Have you actually seen balled lightning? Or blue glowing jellyfish fill an entire beach front? There are things that freak humans out. Its what inspired all fiction and religion. The rest, are hoaxs and Military aircraft. Im convinced, and I have honestly flipped flopped alot during the years.

Please some forbidden archeology?

I love your question..

before we begin, a little "off-topic" for background..

I work in a pub, and after work, the beer fueled conversations are just what you'd expect, people solve the problems of the world, and debate the unsolved ones in slurred tones..

so a pal asks me if i still call myself "agnostic"...
i tell him that i am comfortable with the word, he tells me that he is reading Dawkins, and that my position as "agnostic" is regarded as cowardly by that author..

my pal goes on to tell me that in the "WAR" between science and religion, that we cannot give "the enemy" an inch. if (this is my drunk pal talking now..) IF we give the pope an inch, he'll take 3 miles and we'll have another thousand years of darkness...

a small light bulb went off in my head.. lets see, i was raised a fundamentalist christian in the american midwest, but i left the faith because it included dumb things like GIANTS...

then as an internet addled adult, i encounter all kinds of cryptids, nessie (of course), and a bunch of GIANTS...

now I know that the OP wants hard data, and we will get there (kentucky straight bourbon whiskey willing) even if i have to post again...

The giants are alledged to have been hidden for a while now.

but like the OP i (used) to regard science as a pretty liberal bunch.

cut to DAN BROWN

when the kids i know at work (im 42) all started reading dan brown and trying to get ME to read him, i guffawed and tried to pass off my old hard back of holy blood holy grail instead (LOL)

but the illuminati science (protestant/deist/athiest/pagan) VS Catholic religion WAR was real even if you DONT like dan brown.

this is a bit roundabout..

THESIS INCOMING

The war between science and religion, though started by religion, has seen atrocities committed by both sides. The atrocities on the sides of religion are well known, the atrocities on the side of science are still (largely) hidden.

GIANTS ARE A SECRET BECAUSE THEYRE IN THE BIBLE.

i dont believe the bible, but like dawklins and my drunken pal think, if we give THOSE GUYS an inch, they will take away all the learning weve accumulated.and roll the clock back to some dark ages witch burning dystopia.

(deep breath)
ok if you made it past the third grade, you will know that JUST because there were giants, and that the giants are mentioned in a book about yawehs offspring DOESNT mean that any of the OTHER DATA in the book about yawehs offspring has been confirmed..

but our "enemies" are uneducated and do not use logic...

and so the fiends that lead our enemies, and twist them with half truths and demogoguery must be denied ammunition at any cost.

until we win this war and open up the vaults of anomalies for real examination.

ok so that was my opener.... (sorry im a bit wordy)

if you're still with me, i would like to adress more meaty issues..

OP do you know the work of Christopher Dunn? He's interesting, even if you dont like his ultimate theory (the GP as powerplant) the foundation of his theory is very well laid and rests on an argument about machine tools at work in egypt. he is worth a read and ill drop a link at ya for ease in my typo edit (i always do these drinkin)

LINK

and then theres that geologist schock.. he took a lot of flack for his observation of rain erosion of the sphinx, but his work looks pretty good, and would push the timeline backwards a bit (to say the least)

there could even be an argument for cross corellation between the work of schock and the archeo astronomy bunch, who claim that some of the older sites on earth are alinged to celestial positions only signifigant many thousands of years ealier than we thought.

on another note, i think that the mystery surrounding the domestication of plants and animals is a smoking gun. bananas are a great example of this..

and lloyd pye, bigfoot believer extrordinaire, has an interesting bit about genes that leads him to claim that he can point right at alien intervention in our bloodline.

look these guys up if ya want, because its late here and ill get around to posting those links on the morrow..

What's forbidden archeology anyway?

Obviously mainstream archeologists are not total BS... they are right about a lot of things. Most things in fact. But to assume the mainstream interpretation is completely correct is simply wrong. Nothing is perfect... and there are a lot of important things which mainstream science fails to explain properly. The main thing I think they don't explain correctly are a lot of ancient structures, especially large granite stone constructions, and large pyramids like those in Giza. The ancient Egyptians simply did not build those pyramids using basic copper tools, watch a good doco like "The Revelation of the Pyramids" and you will be left with no doubt in your mind that there is something we are not grasping concerning the way those pyramids were built.

Originally posted by r2d246
What's forbidden archeology anyway?

Figuring out how the first civilizations had written down things that are dismissed as Myths. If they were the oldest and first where did they inherit them from...?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by r2d246
What's forbidden archeology anyway?

Figuring out how the first civilizations had written down things that are dismissed as Myths. If they were the oldest and first where did they inherit them from...?

Well that would probably be more like secret history. I would define 'forbidden archeology' as the research of ancient structures, artwork and other objects which represent an apparent problem for the mainstream interpretation. Like ancient Christian artwork which shows UFO's, aliens and even abductions. Or huge granite stone structures which we can't even replicate with modern machinery today. Mysterious objects like the crystal skulls or the golden jets. Tangible things.

Here is something I find interesting that may not convince you that ALL mainstream science is BS but is interesting non-the less. While reading through Fingerprints of The Gods, I found myself especially intrigued about the mythology of the people living in the Andes. All telling stories about life being in disarray after a "catastrophic event" and great deluge. Out of the waters of the deluge came a man (or in some cases a man with several "followers" like him) who was wise in his ways. And everywhere he walked he helped rebuild society and structure, teach, heal... There are many different side stories of this mans pilgrimage. They called him (excuse my spelling) Varachocha. Which meant Foam of The Sea.

The people of the Andes also attribute the Nazca Lines as being made by the Varachocha(s). In descriptions of this man (and his people) he is said to have long Auburn hair (or white as time progresses), a long full beard (he himself) and all being of fair skin. Those who accompanied him where eventually sent different directions to assist in the recovery of mankind. When he finally left he went back to the sea (some stories say walked on water)

Keeping all that in mind, I began to think about the amount of high altitude mega cities throughout the Andes, Peru, Bolivia. How many of these sites seem to be a mix of a highly advanced civilization and technological aptitude in their architecture. Interspersed with more of a "refurbished" feeling of a less skilled craftsman. When the Spanish came to South America their reported that local tribesmen would say (about many of these places) that they did not build them, they where there long before their people.

If we take into account the stories of the people of the Andes about Varachocha and him arriving after the deluge to rebuild society... That water levels would have significantly risen after the deluge and the location of great cities... And that, from a scientific perspective, this deluge most likely occurred at the end of the last ice age. (Unless some hidden event has occurred since then that might cause such an event [ei: pole shift...]) I question the dating on these cities. Where mainstream science says that mega cities like Macchu Pichu can be attributed to the Incan's and mostly built "After Common Era" I can see that stories point towards a much older date. 10,000 BC perhaps (post ice age)

Thoughts Anyone? Do we take credence in the often flawed sciences used to "date" these structures and believe what we are told my mainstream science. Or do we draw parallel between verbal history and natural phenomenon and think outside the box. Up to you, I guess.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by r2d246
What's forbidden archeology anyway?

Figuring out how the first civilizations had written down things that are dismissed as Myths. If they were the oldest and first where did they inherit them from...?

Well that would probably be more like secret history. I would define 'forbidden archeology' as the research of ancient structures, artwork and other objects which represent an apparent problem for the mainstream interpretation. Like ancient Christian artwork which shows UFO's, aliens and even abductions. Or huge granite stone structures which we can't even replicate with modern machinery today. Mysterious objects like the crystal skulls or the golden jets. Tangible things.

edit on 11/10/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

Like the pyramids? Do you think the pyramids were made by aliens? (as in demons) ha ha

reply to post by r2d246


No I think they might have had help from aliens though. If they didn't have help from aliens, then they certainly had developed some sort of technology which we don't give them credit for. Either case is equally as likely imo.