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Vice Presidential Debate Discussion Thread

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posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 



There are quite a few democrats against it too.. Well after his almost TRILLION dollar failure you want to trust him with another 450 BILLION?

Parts of the bill actually had House bipartisan 405-16 vote in favor...but come on really?

A Harvard study showed his first failure cost the Government 200k for every job created...Wow!


You asked for specifics, not about the validity of the specifics.

You can't deny that Biden gave specifics, so now you try to derail your own question by talking about a TRILLION dollars (of course in all caps) and ignoring that I answered exactly what you asked for.

So now, where are Ryan's specifics. Or are you just going to ignore that question and continue with your rant?




posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by Phoenix
 



Thats the real problem here, reminds me of a communist command economy where the consumer has no say in the real needs because it DICTATED by government out of control.

Choice, thats a word you like right, bet you use it often, let us have our choice and butt the hell out of others lives, business and financial affairs, tend to you own instead of coveting!


I actually don't use choice much.

But I see that you have now conceded and have moved on to just ranting about government, you made sure to get that "commie" rhetoric in there.

I'm sorry you had your facts wrong.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by TheCounselor
because many of you decided before the first word who was going to be the victor. What's the use of the debates at all if we view this the same as we would a football team?


Untrue actually.

During Obama/Romney, I assumed Obama would simply win without much of an effort.
The actual debate, fact for fact, Obama creamed Romney, however, I stated right away that Romney won the debate, because presence is what is taken away from these debates.

Now, the morons on ats here (myself included) are already decided for the most part..we don't matter. If the opposition promised the second coming of christ and gold bars for everyone, we wouldn't be swayed..because yes, our minds were made up awhile ago.
But these debates aren't about us idiots..its about the idiots that have yet to truely make up their minds.

And for those idiots..they don't really remember the facts and what was said..but rather, who had better presence...stage preformance if you will

Its how Romney won the first debate
and its how Biden won this one.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by Phoenix
 



Actually if you've ever ever read our constitution, it says " congress shall make no law" I read that as niether for or against - do you disagree.


They made no law regarding religion.

They made a law regarding insurance.

For as much as the Right complains about Muslims and Sharia law, you guys sure seem to support religious tyranny, as long as it is the flavor you prefer.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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After watching the entire debate, it looked like nothing other than 2 dogs barking at each other, Joe's mic kept getting louder and louder, i kept turning the volume lower and lower, Ryan looked like a robot reading off a bunch of scripts.

All this debate really did to me was make me not want to be an American, I can't believe how 2 guys like this even get elected. Maybe it's just all entertainment, like a soap opera, but brainwashed people think it's real or something.

I don't trust government, politicians, etc; AT ALL.


Anyone know of a country not as psychotic as the U.S. government is? I'm ready to walk out of this circus.
edit on 12-10-2012 by Alchera7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Alchera7

Anyone know of a country not as psychotic as the U.S. government is?


Syria.
I hear their elections are basically one guy saying he will be the leader, and any countering being little more than a silenced shot in some dark alley



Debate is healthy. Do you not want a politician to fight for your point of view?



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


People are way too low on the US right now. We still have the best economy in the world, everyone. By far.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by HostileApostle

You can't deny that Biden gave specifics,


I think I missed that during the debate where he when into their jobs act in detail...or even mention it at all, or even mention anything else as to how they will fix the economy.

I might be wrong...


Edit to add... So it seems even you see some failing in his 450 billion "jobs bill" too. Are you going to vote him into office seeing that as his great fix?
edit on 12-10-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by Phoenix
 



Actually if you've ever ever read our constitution, it says " congress shall make no law" I read that as niether for or against - do you disagree.


They made no law regarding religion.

They made a law regarding insurance.

For as much as the Right complains about Muslims and Sharia law, you guys sure seem to support religious tyranny, as long as it is the flavor you prefer.


Actually, there is a law regarding religion...a religious institution regarding marriage.

Which I find pleasing in a ironic sort of way that due to that one law embedded in government, it is now being rightfully corrupted into same sex marriage, which is against the judeo-christian religion...and why they (religious fundys) are flipping out.


So ya..keep tucking religion into legislation...and let that legislation corrupt the religion. I find it funny XD

Good stuff.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by Phoenix
 



2 years of absolute control of all levers and even his own party would not pass it!


They did not have two years of absolute control.

www.motherjones.com...

Well, let's at least get our history straight. Until Al Franken was sworn in on July 7, the Democratic caucus in the Senate stood at 59. After that it was technically up to 60, but Ted Kennedy hadn't cast a vote in months and was housebound due to illness. He died a few weeks later and was replaced by Paul Kirk on September 24, finally bringing the Democratic majority up to 60 in practice as well as theory. After that the Senate was in session for 11 weeks before taking its winter recess, followed by three weeks until Scott Brown won Kennedy's seat in the Massachusetts special election.

So that means Democrats had an effective filibuster-proof majority for about 14 weeks.


Obama had a filibuster proof Congress for a total of 14 weeks, not 2 years.


Excuse it all you want, they still held a majority and all you've proved is filibuster proofing, nary a mention of changes made in rules of the house and senate when that party took control. I stand with they could have passed anything they wanted at the time but choose re-election over that course - course being voting on the record for a budget that later they would have been hung with. History being they did not vote on Obamas budget bear my truth.
edit on 12-10-2012 by Phoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by Alchera7
After watching the entire debate, it looked like nothing other than 2 dogs barking at each other, Joe's mic kept getting louder and louder, i kept turning the volume lower and lower, Ryan looked like a robot reading off a bunch of scripts.

All this debate really did to me was make me not want to be an American, I can't believe how 2 guys like this even get elected. Maybe it's just all entertainment, like a soap opera, but brainwashed people think it's real or something.

I don't trust government, politicians, etc; AT ALL.


Anyone know of a country not as psychotic as the U.S. government is? I'm ready to walk out of this circus.
edit on 12-10-2012 by Alchera7 because: (no reason given)



Right on brother. A better comparison to politics in this country would be the WWE. Two idiots trash talking each other, trading barbs, etc. It all leads up to the title match in November. Just like in wrestling, the owners have already laid out who wins. Just like it wrestling; some of the fans are to stupid to realize its fake, some choose to remain willfully ignorant, and a few recognize it for what it is. Unfortunately for all of us, the smart ones who see through the scam are in the minority.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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So we have a guy who can't even remember his marathon time spouting budget numbers all over the place.

A guy who is known for 'gaffes'.

A guy who was reportedly guilty of multiple incidences of felonies (assault and battery upon a younger student and impersonating an officer), and seems to lie and change opinions with conscience-less impunity. (You can tell when though, he stutters and blinks a lot).

And a guy who promised a helluva lot of change, then proceeded to double down on the wars and usurpation of the Constitution.

Gary Johnson for President. Because doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. There's a reason the guy was marginalized and outright banned from the two party system of preselected corporate puppets. Because he makes sense.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


People are way too low on the US right now. We still have the best economy in the world, everyone. By far.


Depends on how you measure economy


Luxembourg: Best per capita income
Madagascar: Lowest government debt
Libya: Fastest economic growth
Mongolia: Best investment
United States: Largest economy


We have the largest. So, arguably a bit more stable, but put that against capita income or debt...

We are massive consumers..so, that is something. Our gluttony and greed pumps this machine bigger and bigger, but with all gigantic things, growth will be slow, expensive, and not overly rewarding in its ventures...perhaps stable, but hardly idealistic.

Not disagreeing with you mind you, just saying a sweeping statement like that is not telling of the whole story...largest..not best.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Are you going to even attempt to give any specifics from Ryan?

Or are you just going to continue to dodge?

And here is where he talked about the jobs bill

www.foxnews.com...

are 5.2 million new jobs, private-sector jobs. We need more, but 5.2 million -- if they'd get out of the way, if they'd get out of the way and let us pass the tax cut for the middle class, make it permanent, if they get out of the way and pass the -- pass the jobs bill, if they get out of the way and let us allow 14 million people who are struggling to stay in their homes because their mortgages are upside down, but they never missed a mortgage payment, just get out of the way.


You can't get more specific then fully written legislation.
edit on 12-10-2012 by HostileApostle because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


People are way too low on the US right now. We still have the best economy in the world, everyone. By far.


I don't know what you have been smoking, but I'd surely like some of that. Seriously. Either that, or you don't read much.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I was startled by the first debate also. Part of me was waiting for Obama to kick in. He didn't.
Your view of who won the second debate is the reason I wished I would have listened to the debate with no visuals, then watched a repeat with the visuals. Visually, Joe's behavior was off-putting to me. I would have liked to have the words without seeing their expressions first. Also, Ryan and I graduated from Miami University the same year, some of his behavior is the same as myself and other alumni of the same college, so that might have also colored my viewpoint, also. Some people on the board noted his 'awshuckness' as 'deer in the headlights'. I ask those people to please not visit Ohio. We will frighten you.
When I watched the debates, part of my mind was thinking of the office of VP, and what it entails. Over the radio, I might have got a different impression.
I don't want to say what candidate I'm supporting, because, honestly, I will not know 100 percent until I pull the lever.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


I've been smoking the one statistic that measures the total economic output of a nation, where the US leads the second place country by trillions.

And, the majority of Fortune 500 companies are American.

A slump doesn't take away from the fact that the American economy is still the top in the world.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by HostileApostle
reply to post by Phoenix
 



Actually if you've ever ever read our constitution, it says " congress shall make no law" I read that as niether for or against - do you disagree.


They made no law regarding religion.

They made a law regarding insurance.

For as much as the Right complains about Muslims and Sharia law, you guys sure seem to support religious tyranny, as long as it is the flavor you prefer.


But, you have no trouble applying that law to a religous organization, again no law for or against, the laws of man do not apply and it really does not matter the religion. The constitution supports this bud or are you as many here and only support whats conveniant to you and not the rest. This lies right there in the first amendment - you have a problem with that amendment?



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Biden actually blamed Ryan for what took place in Libya.

*shakes head*


I saw one part of it. Apparently, Ryan voted to cut 300,000,000 dollars from the budget of the security for US missions abroad. Blaming others for not caring about that security... strikes me as rather sick.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

We are massive consumers..so, that is something. Our gluttony and greed pumps this machine bigger and bigger, but with all gigantic things, growth will be slow, expensive, and not overly rewarding in its ventures...perhaps stable, but hardly idealistic.

Not disagreeing with you mind you, just saying a sweeping statement like that is not telling of the whole story...largest..not best.


Much of the world runs on little money, but here you are right "we are massive consumers" Even so many who should not be, still are. Even when the cost of living basically doubled in the last four years so many are still massive spenders.

Add up smart phones, internet, cable TV, nice car so on and so on...it's just crazy...how we spend and what we FEEL is minimum living standards.



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