Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by ImaFungi
what are you talking about accepting that everything we sense can be artificially induced,,..,.,.,
Sight, as an example, is simply electrical signals between your optic nerve and your brain. Your eyeballs gather in a picture, it's converted to
electrical impulses, and shunted back to your brain, which reconstructs it as an "image". Scientists are currently working on retinal implants that
can restore sight to some blind people by using a camera to collect the picture, and then pipe it back to the brain as it normally would be.
(See this article)
With that in mind, pretend that you are a brain in a vat, with an electrical wire connecting on that same passageway, but the source at the other end
is neither an eye nor a camera, but rather a computer, which is capable of generating images in real time. How would your brain know that the source
of what your brain thinks you are "seeing" is a computer, rather than an eye or camera? It couldn't, assuming that all other senses, like touch or
hearing, are simultaneously being simulated by this computer.
That's what I mean -- if all of that was possible (and, the argument goes, it will, by necessity, be possible at some point) how can anyone say that
they are not a brain in a vat, or some other existence that is really just a computer generated simulation.
I must ask you hypothetically...... what in infinity and eternity can potentially be real? besides this universe besides any others that can be
or simulations,.... what would it take for something to be real?
Under the terms of what I just laid out, nothing. It is entirely possible (and some would say likely,) that nothing that we experience is "real," in
the sense that most people apply that term.
addressing your last sentence first,.,.,. can you creatively imagine,,, what would ever constitute as real,,, once again i am not talking about this
reality or universe.,.,.,. i am saying,, in the history of history of anything ever always and forever,,,,, what would make ,, something real?
your beginning stuff,, ,, i dont think the brain in the vat arguments are good,, because i think physics does a good job of showing that the external
universe exists in some manner and dimension of physical expression governed by physical law,,,,, there is space,, there is distance,,, you and i and
every galaxy are not overlapped right now in 1 dimension... I really dont think we are,,,,,i think that is what is so impressive about the universe,,,
its actual expansiveness relative to its near infinite and infinitesimal parts.,,.,. i understand there could be who knows what surrounding the
universe,,, but i believe the universe does exist in the manner it exists in,,,
the human mind and senses function in the manner that they do because they are a computing mechanism,,, when we recall memories we are simulating
"reality" in the holographic theatre of our minds,, i think physically,, the world is the size it is relative to our sun,, and we are the size we
are relative to the earth,,, to make the complex elemental biological system we are function in these ridiculous conditions and realms,,we needed to
naturally adapt,,, from a long time ago on earth nature was inspired to innovate complex technology such as vision and brain, and organs and bones,,,,
the mind and its way of encrypting external information and translating it for the internal consciousness to understand and recall, is the system it
came up with,, this communication with electricity,,, on a more macro scale we kept the ball rolling with the telephone and internet,.,.,.,
so once again i am hung up on the word simulation and its meaning,,,
it is certainly a creation,,, it is certainly a computation of physical information,,,
but it doesnt seem to be as controlled as you imply.,,.,.
there doesnt seem to be moderators,,,
it seems to be a world wide web,,,
were viruses can evolve,,, and self correcting systems can learn and grow,,
So yea im still confused what is meant by simulation...... is it that it is all preprogrammed and every micro moment is destined from the
beginning?
is what is meant by simulation,, that a programmer,, created the universe exactly the way it was to allow a real time,, long long time,, habitat of
creativity and potential and probability play out,, to give essence and opportunity to exist in physical form,,, to turn nothing into something and
give it a computer for a mind to process infinite eternity with,,,, or to figure out how its predecessor might have possibly came about?
) 
