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Libertarians Building a House

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posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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What the Libertarians don’t seem to understand is that you don’t build a house by starting with the roof. You have to have a foundation to hold up that roof.

Libertarians, and I think many of us, want to see a drastic change in our government from the county level to the federal level. However, the Gary Johnson, and Ron Paul fans want to take over the White House immediately but they don’t have the base to get it accomplished. No libertarian candidate is going to win the White House. Plain and simple, they don’t have the voter base, i.e., no foundation.

Instead of starting to build the foundation of the party before the primaries, they wait until the Libertarian Party announces their candidate and then simply vote for them at the election. How much campaigning did you actually see for Ron Paul before the primaries? The Paul people simply tried to take over the caucuses which alienated the undecided voters in those areas. They thought by getting Paul enough votes to speak at the convention, that he would overwhelm the delegates with his common sense, force a second round of votes and then be nominated for president. They were wrong. They did not have the foundation to hold up the roof.

Now, the Libertarians, because they couldn’t get the roof up (get Paul nominated) they would rather burn down the house, toss away their vote, and let Obama destroy the country. Why not try this: live in a tent while you are building the foundation? More simply put, vote out Obama (the more government candidate) vote in Romney (the less government candidate) and continue to build the foundation and the rest of the house prior to the next primary? This would be called your temporary housing and you could be vocal about it.

Those of you who say both Romney and Obama are the same, are disingenuous. They are not the same. They are clearly different. Those Libertarian voters who say they will vote for Obama since Paul is not on the ballot, were never Libertarians in the first place. They were vote dividers either put up to it or influenced by the Democratic Party.

Ron Paul, has lost any respect I had for him. He is not the patriot I thought he was. Paul will not endorse Gary Johnson or Mitt Romney. Source Instead, he will let his supporters divide this country, see Obama re-elected, retire with his money, government pension and health care for the rest of his life without worry. Paul wants to see the house burn. He has no worries about his future. Many of the rest of us have worries and obstacles to work around.

What Paul should have done is advise his supporters to support Romney simply to get Obama out. Then he should say, that during the next 2-4 years is that his supporters should organize and mobilize to start filling their local, state, and federal offices with Libertarians. Begin to prepare, ardently, for the next elections everywhere. Knock on doors, hand out flyers, run for office, support libertarians intelligently rather than outrageously. Build the foundation before trying to raise the roof.

Paul already forced the Republican Party to adopt some of his precepts. Yet, the Libertarians, refuse to identify with those precepts or the party for the good of the country.

Those of you who say they will vote for Gary Johnson because of their conscience, are taking away votes from someone who can beat Obama and is radically different than Obama. Those of you who vote for Johnson or Paul are still mopping the floor while your house is on fire. Those of you who say you will vote Libertarian at this point in time, want to see the house burn.

If you must, hold your nose, live in your tent while you are building your house, and vote against the incumbent and continue to work towards your goal of building the Libertarian Party. Otherwise, just have a good supply of marshmallows because your house is going to burn to the ground.




posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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What you say makes sense.

Good luck trying to sway them.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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Funny, I thought Ron Paul was a Republican...

The Libertarians definitely need to dump a crap load of money into campaigning before they stand a chance of getting anywhere. They need to start spending now for 2016, and they'll still have a slim chance at best.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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Im really suprised we have a Romney supporter who dislikes Ron Paul.

You make way too many assumptions in this post.
At the same time- refuse to see what that "crazy old man" has done to point out corruption
and chaos in BOTH parties.

The republican party NEVER gave him a fair shot during his bid, and now all of the sudden his "crazy supporters"
are needed to give the GOP its seat.

I dont know about anyone else- but I dont see ANY real Paul supporters voting Obama.

Obama is everything Paul speaks against.
Independants will NEVER have the numbers to compete with both big parties because the majority of people are
party sheep. They always will be, till the death, no matter what.

The only way "sanity" is ever going to come back to this country, is by getting rid of the stranglehold both of these parties have on our country(and the corruption within).

You lost respect for Paul because he wont play the partisan game?

Hes bigger than that.

If anyone has lost my respect this election cycle- its the corrupt members of the grand old party who never gave this man his due. They cheated him, and now they are begging for us to vote for them.

The irony.

...but yea I get it...foundation...roofs...walls with vaulted ceilings...yea.

You want to know what the best choice Paul supporters can make at this time that wont
sway the election in anyones favor?

We just dont vote this year.

I refuse to vote for corrupt scumbags.

That way- everyone is happy. Obama doesnt get my vote- so I cant be responsible for another 4 years of his crap. Romney doesnt get my vote- so I wont be responsible when he starts his version of chaos.

"burning down the house"



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Brought to you by a paid spokesperson from the Romney campaign.....jk


As a Libertarian I don't identify with either of them, I'm not putting any hope in the fact either of them will do anything that benefits our people. I'm about 95% sure that they will grease the palms of their corporate and socialite friends putting us further in financial ruin.

Our system is broken....at this point redemption will never happen.......so the house of cards must start crumbling down.
edit on 11-10-2012 by kat2684 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by Common Good
 


I did not say I disliked Ron Paul. I contributed money to Ron Paul.
Paul could not win and could not beat Obama on stage so I went with ABO.

PS. Paul is not "bigger than that."
Paul is willing to let the house burn for revenge.

edit on 11-10-2012 by Nite_wing because: I had an acid flashback.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by kat2684
 


Your house will fall too.

edit on 11-10-2012 by Nite_wing because: I want to make things simple for simple people.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


As a registered indy with libertarian leanings dressed up as a conservative, I applaud your ground-up idea.

I'm actually looking into becoming a lobbyist, albiet under my own lobby.

A "real people" lobby.

A "tinfoil" hat lobby.

A "You got to be frickin' kidding me" lobby.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


I rather it collapse quickly so we can rebuild, its much better then having a few shingles ripped off at a time...

edit on 11-10-2012 by kat2684 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


As a registered libertarian, I am not going to vote for either Romney or Obama. Both candidates are scum. The reason I don't want to vote, isn't because I want to oust the incumbent or anything. I don't want to vote because the system is so corrupt that it doesn't matter what I do. Instead I'd rather boycott the system altogether. Also I hate how people who say that a non-vote or a vote for an independent is a vote for Obama. This is just right wing bs. A non-vote or a vote for an independent is exactly that, we don't want to vote for either of the two main candidates.

The fact that you think that Romney is different or will do things differently than Obama is laughable. They are two sides to the same coin. I can promise you that he won't repeal Obamacare, military spending will increase (probably even more so under Romney because that's what Repubs like to do anyways), our military involvement with other countries will continue to increase, and our great country will still continue its downward spiral.

These men are professional conmen and have the entire nation buying their crappy product. You are right, our house will burn. But it will burn regardless of who gets elected. In fact I want it to burn, so that we can start rebuilding it. Our country has reached the point where it is probably better to tear it down and rebuild it instead of repairing it anyways.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Good for you. However, some people just want to watch the world burn. They forget they are flammable too.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Here on ATS most people seem to be Paul fanatics and Libertarians who call every one else sheeple. In reality Its the Paul fanatics/Libertarians who are the sheeple. You guys just want to be different different and re confused thinking the great and power Paul is the savior, when in reality hes worse than all the rest.
If you guys rreally want a place with very little government, Most of Africa is available.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by gorgi
 


I think you are confused. I'm not a Paul fanatic. I clearly said that the whole system is corrupt. Im boycotting the whole system. Good luck voting for Romney. I'll do you solid, if he gets elected and when he continues to ruin the country like the last guy I won't say I told you so.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Obama hasn't ruined the economy , it does take a while o fix the mess Bush left and the republican do what ever it takes to make sure he fails, and they are bringing the country down with him.
You act like a typical libertarian/ anarchist. Bringing everything don is only going to make things worse,



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


How poetic. Too bad we're not building a house, huh? Although in theory your plan is spiffy-neat, I for one don't believe there is nearly enough time --- even assuming you could get the majority of people to research stuff on their own rather than parrot-back party provided talking points. Like it or not, your run-of-the-mill voter is utterly clueless. The parties count on it. That way they can say what they want, change their position depending on who they're talking too and then have amnesia once in office. How is it The People are getting poorer and our 'elected representatives' are getting richer???

Clearly something's wrong. We need to decouple the two ruling parties from our system and we need to do it quickly. Will electing a Libertarian (or any other third-party candidate) fix things? Maybe not. But the status-quo is NOT going to change without some MAJOR change of direction by the voters. I'd rather take a shot at getting an unafilliated person in office than the way it's been done in all the other countries across the globe. You keep corn-holing the masses while you and your buddies get wealthier by the day and something will snap. Like Eqypt, Greece, Spain, Syria, etc. We don't want that here if we can avoid it.

But if you're suggesting that simply going along with the status quo is going to improve the lot of the country you are as mad as a crap-house rat. The definition of insanity, it has been said, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Not for me, thanks.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


What YOU dont seem to understand, is that this two party system IS NOT WORKING for "we the people".

We dont need another four years of Obama, i agree with you on that, but we also dont need another four years of what Bush brought us...Romney is just Bush, in a newer package, in a different form...

I honestly dont understand why anyone with a functioning brain could support Romney/Obama, it is honestly WAY beyond me.

I also dont understand why we MUST vote for Romney, just because he isnt Obama...you should not settle for the lesser of two evils...search for the light...

We must break this system NOW, not let it go on for another 4-8 years...

Tear it down, and build it up.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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I wasn't going to get into this conversation but then decided...what the hell.

I am a card carrying Libertarian. I like Ron Paul but I was going to vote Libertarian anyway. Ron Paul had just a few too many social conservative positions than my taste allows. it was nice to see some of the Libertarian Principles brought into the limelight, it at least got some people asking questions and looking around.

I really don't care what others think about my vote. It's mine. It's MY voice, not yours. I believe in fiscal responsibility and social freedom. It's that simple. There is not a single thing in the Libertarian platform that I disagree with. How many of you Republicans and Democrats can say the same? I know it takes a ground up effort and I do what I can. Yes I will be supporting the state and local Libertarians as well.

It is my voice and my vote and though it might be a tiny little peep...I refuse to join in the songs singing the praises of the Democrats or the Republicans...I do not agree with them.

I will never ever again vote for the "lesser of two evils". Two wings of the same bird of prey.












Go ahead, tell me I am wasting my vote...


edit on 10/11/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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I will address several comments here.

Bush didn't ruin the economy. Congress ruined the economy. The start was the Dodd-Frank Bill. Bush asked 17 times not to be presented that bill but the Dems controlled the entire Congress. Our government is borrowing 40 cents of every dollar Congress spends, plus by executive order, it is directed where non-specific funds are being placed. Obama is also giving millions to his cronies because the MSM refuses to investigate their candidate and he knows it. Both parties are destroying or have destroyed our Constitution. Obama more than any other except perhaps Roosevelt.

I never said the two party system was working. I am saying the house is on fire. Put out the fire and continue to work your Libertarian principles and support your candidates by laying a local, state and federal foundation.

And, yes, you are wasting your vote in this particular election. Unless, you want to say you (Libertarians) were responsible for getting Obama re-elected. Won't that make you proud when your child asks "Why did you let Obama destroy America?" You answer, "Honey, because I stood on my principles." Then she asks, "Is that why I get my shoes from the Good Will store?"

What makes anyone think I have no Libertarian princiciples? I am willing to build this one step at a time. The difference is that I have worked all my life for what I have and understand patience and goals. I will continue to work for a Constitutional government (a Libertarian principle.) You have learned to want immediate gratification. You want the White House without working for it. You aren't willing to take steps. An attempted giant leap to the White House will take us all off the cliff. It's a step by step process if you are willing to understand and participate. It calls for footwork not Robert's Rules of Order or Sheeple rants.



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 08:10 AM
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reply to post by gorgi
 


Call me what you want, but I call it how I see it. And right now I see a failing system in the death clutch of two incredibly corrupt political parties. Obama may not have ruined the economy, but he didn't do much to improve it either. In fact he decided to increase military spending and implement Obamacare, two things which have further increased our deficit. If Obama really cared about fixing this country he could show it by finally cutting the massively overinflated military budget and reallocating the funds to more domestic concerns like our failing education system. Heck he could even throw some of these struggling states a bone and give them some money. But NOOOOO we have to stick our noses in more places we don't belong all in the name of "national defense." What a crock!



posted on Oct, 12 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by Nite_wing
 


The Libertarian party has been around for years. I've been one for 9 years now and i had heard of the party 2 or 3 years prior to that. The reason this "house" as you put it hasn't been built yet is because of people like you who say "just vote out the incumbent then build up over the next four years." If that hasn't worked all the other elections the Libertarians had a candidate, what makes you think it will happen this time? All you are doing is buying into the right wing's bs and contributing to keep the Libertarians down.

You bring up this point about what I'd tell my children when we are buying shoes from good will and insinuate that we'd end up that way if we let Obama stay in office. Well the way I see it, the same thing is equally as likely to happen if Romney is elected. It's a lose-lose situation and I'm tired of buying into with the whole "lesser of two evils" idea. We need to stop giving the people an illusion of choice and actually change something. I know I don't have a loud enough voice to make any significant changes, but when the die is cast and we finally hit rock bottom I'll know I didn't help contribute to this mess.

I'm ready for it to happen. My family is already hard hit by the economy, so when either candidate finally throws that final straw onto the pile and camel's back finally gives, I'll be ready for the hard living to come. I know it'll get so much worse then it is now, but that's where my Army training comes in. Ha now that I think about it, I've been getting ready for this for a while now.

"It's always darkest before the dawn."





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