Turkish F16s intercept Syrian civilian flight from Moscow to Damascus

Originally posted by stumason
Turkey doesn't have nuclear weapons.

At one point, there were US missiles based there, which is what led to the Cuban missile crisis and as a result, I think the US agreed to draw down it's missile forces there. They also host, along with Greece, Germany, Belgium and others, tactical nuclear systems but these are under the control of the US forces until they are needed, then the host will deploy them on it's own aircraft

Quoted for truth.

Kennedy & Khrushchev made a deal that took affect about 6 months after the Cuban Missile crises.

reply to post by la2


I know they could do it and have done it to their satellite nations over the years, but to do it to the EU is a whole other ball game and raises the stakes very high. Are the Russians prepared to do that to their best customer? I doubt it. The risks are great with the rewards being almost non-existant

I am surprised to see here few peoples who still consider the war as a game. I understand the proud being an american, but honestly this war is not fa utball match between Russians and Americans. No one is fearing to the other, if starts will be a nightmare with powerful conventional arms, maybe nukes as well. No winner will be, the consequences will be unimaginable.
To my knowledge, the Russia has a military base on Syria, so if they want, they are and will continue to support the Syria with weapons of any kind. No need to use the civilian, plains for that. The action of Turkish army is another provocation of the situation. What if the intelligence service of the Turkey has been disinformed.
I suppose that, the US owns only the government of middle east, the peoples are Muslim and in general in the war they are following they religious leaders, not the government. So, will not be easy, Israel has to consider a fight against Muslims, not only against Iran or Syria.
Hope, the leaders staying calm and cold.

I am sorry to upset our American friends on here but America is years behind Russia in Sub tec alone, we get Russian subs off the UK as America do too over the last 4 years that NATO cannot hear or pick up with any radar NATO have as yet.
Russia have war planes that can turn on a penny both going up or down, or left or right to attack plane behind it, the USA planes are 8 years behind in doing that too.
America are as notrmal very big with the mouth, all American Presidents show us that too, but remember America HAVE NEVER WON A WAR, not ever, they run if a country stands up to them, have every time.
Sorry but I am not scared to tell America your heading for a war with Russia & China soon, sooner than you think, and big mouths wont win this one friends, it is going to be the best kit win, that is not USA I can tell you.

Originally posted by Alternative4u
I am sorry to upset our American friends on here but America is years behind ...

Blah, blah, blah. Boring and wrong. Try to keep on topic.

Whether Turkey has a legitimate reason for stopping the aeroplane or not is not really an issue. Turkey is sending a message that they are in control. Not much Russia can do. Not much Syria can do.

Fact is that Turkey is a regional superpower and Syria is dysfunctional.

Regards

reply to post by Alternative4u


8 years behind the russians in aircraft and sub tech? what video game are you playing?

Originally posted by Alternative4u

America are as notrmal very big with the mouth, all American Presidents show us that too, but remember America HAVE NEVER WON A WAR, not ever, they run if a country stands up to them, have every time.

America has never won a war?

reply to post by Alternative4u




American subs are head and shoulders above Russian ones and even the US Virginia is inferior to the UK's Astute class. US Commanders who've done the Punisher on the new Astute have been gobsmacked. The Russians latest sub took them 15 years to design and build and even then, the project is hitting delays.

FYI, you don't detect subs with Radar, primarily and I can assure you that the sonar in the Astute class is the dogs danglies. Quite how you know the Russians subs can't be detected is a mystery and I suspect is just bluster.

As for the planes comment, I'm not even going to entertain that. Thrust vectoring (what you allude to with you turn on a dime comment) is quite well understood in Western jets and will help them in no way shape or form if they can't even see the Western jet to engage it.

reply to post by Red73Eng

reply to post by Alternative4u



Same sentence structure, same anti US zeal, Same nonsensical arguments....

Nah..

Coincidence

reply to post by paraphi


I wonder what happened to the case when the Russian Ambassador to Qatar was beaten up on the airport by Qatari officials and had his diplomatic bags and documents seized. Russia did nothing and ignored the incident. Why would Russia do anything in this case when plane is Syrian not Russian. I doubt if Russia would do anything if the plane was Russian.

ps: another peg of kremlin brand vodka please, i promise this would be my last...........then i would hurry home all drunk and beat my wife again if she complains.

reply to post by stumason


Under 10 km radius, thurst vectoring can be powerful tool but when planes launch their missiles from 100km and stalk you from 400km (F22s) then thurst vectoring is not even good for sales brochures.

reply to post by victor7


Exactly...

Although, for balance, it is worth noting that in tests for long range launches of the AMRAAM's, the actual hit ratio is pretty low. You get a much higher chance to hit at closer ranges, but still well outside any distance where thrust vectoring can help you, which is really only of use in dogfights or air shows (and even then, Russian planes have been known to drop out the sky when showing off)

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Alternative4u

 

Good for Turkey. They are nobody's patsy and they've one of the strongest and largest militaries on the planet, including nukes.

they've been our patsy for more then a century....

Originally posted by Alternative4u


NATO are pushing there look with Russia, I think Russia will react to NATO one day soon, that will be a lesson to NATO they wont like.

Given the history of NATO, from prematurely activated "stay-behind" terror cells to recent aggressive war in Libya, a Russian lesson to NATO would be welcome to many. The sooner, the better.

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by Alternative4u

 

Good for Turkey. They are nobody's patsy and they've one of the strongest and largest militaries on the planet, including nukes.

they've been our patsy for more then a century....

Turkey .... the "go to" guys for narcotics processing and trafficking, the nuclear black market, spy rings and more.

Sure looks like they will be able to add "false flags" to their resume soon.










.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by victor7

 

Exactly...

Although, for balance, it is worth noting that in tests for long range launches of the AMRAAM's, the actual hit ratio is pretty low. You get a much higher chance to hit at closer ranges, but still well outside any distance where thrust vectoring can help you, which is really only of use in dogfights or air shows (and even then, Russian planes have been known to drop out the sky when showing off)

I agree with most of your points, but this pi**ing contest over hardware is a little irrelevant when we consider that the UK, US, Russia and China all have full weapons development programs. There are also almost daily reports of "UFO's" all around the world, which most logical minds would put down to recon using classified aircraft. This is also often the explanation for the strange sonic booms people have been hearing in recent years.

While it's probably true that the US and UK both have some impressive weaponry and craft we have never seen which would provide a major advantage in a global war, we certainly should not be underestimating Russia, and especially not China.

It's generally accepted that China has the most advanced cyber-warfare division. Their tech industry is second to none. We cant immediately say that the US would thrash anyone in a modern conflict, I think it would be far more difficult than people seem to think.

Just my opinion.

Also, back on topic, it was interesting to see RT reporting that "masked men" surrounded the plane. But to be honest I was a little disappointed in their biased expression of it. We all know that when a plane is forced to land special forces will be involved. This is not a surprise to me and seeing RT almost sounding shocked about that was very telling.

What did they expect, a buffet and a petting zoo laid out for their potential weapons traffickers?

Russian embassy in Ankara, Turkey, demands explanation on grounded Syrian jet carrying 17 Russian citizens - @AJELive 7 mins ago by edito

Update: Grounded Syrian plane has just left Ankara, Turkey, for Syria after some of its cargo seized by Turkish officials - @AJELive 1 hour ago from www.aljazeera.com by editor

reply to post by lurksoften


Russia's most secret programs may stack up against what we know about ours. Which is nothing compared to whats actually at our disposal.

Actually, I take that back.
Two things. Aircraft carriers and Stealth Aircraft. Done deal

Originally posted by Alternative4u


NATO are pushing there look with Russia, I think Russia will react to NATO one day soon, that will be a lesson to NATO they wont like.
The Turk leaders are really keen to choose a fight with Russia, and I really feel that we are close to war today more than ever before since cold war ended.

I have been an Emergency planner for yearsnow and anger between Chinc, USA, and Britain and Russia have never been so high, where will it stop?

rt.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

What could Russia do to NATO in a war? Nothing.

Originally posted by stumason
If the Turks had specific intelligence sanctions against Syria were being circumvented on an aircraft traversing their airspace, they not only have the right, but an obligation to investigate.

There won't be a war with Russia over this, or anything to do with Syria for that matter. Neither the Russians (or the Chinese for that matter) have the capability (or even the desire) to take on the West

They are going to derust a few of their old Naval ships and set out for America hoping their ships don't sink first.