Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

Originally posted by jiggerj
Just going with your theory, if a man dies with a sin on his soul, does just the sin go to hell, or the soul?

If the soul does indeed go to hell, does that prove that God is unjust?

I hate to answer your question with a question but I think it's necessary to clarify each other's perspectives first.

Personally I think of sin as a disease, and that the purpose of this life is to find the Cure. At any point in time we are either walking towards the cure or running from it, and to deny our own sinful nature is to deny that we have a disease at all.

It's like if the zombie apocalypse happened and a survival colony didn't let you in because you were infected. That doesn't mean that the survival colony is acting selfishly, because it is for the benefit of the group. Sin is contagious. Maybe we already are living in the zombie apocalypse and we are already among the living dead.

Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

Scriptures indicate that God knows that babies in the womb have not done anything good or evil. They also indicate that God hates some babies even while in the womb and innocent. It is also said that God creates us and our characters. Our characters, as we evolve, cannot help but do evil. God then is responsible for the evil that we will do as he has created our natures.

Even though i am not religious my freind there is something called 'free will' that was bestowed upon
us....

Bestowed on us?
By whom?

I get mine from nature and evolution.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Sinny
Its just Bible Bull.

It'll serve you better looking for your answers else where.

I know it is bull and I am looking in a religion forum.

Do not have as little in social conscience as believers.

It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

Maybe because he is sadistic & cruel with a twisted sense of humour.
and/or
To pay for the sins of their forefathers.

Death sure pays back a debt.
There is not much wisdom to be had in the bible but what there is God does not seem to have read.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Speaking on OT theory, Adam was born with a choice, his choice led to sin being introduced into mankind, like a genetic disease - thus original sin.

As for God hating babies? Different sects have different views about unbabtised infants, but most faiths provide that the innocent are protected by grace.

~Heff

Ok.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

This preacher seems to disagree with you and uses the bible to do so and soundly refutes your view.

www.youtube.com...

If you are a moral man you might liten to what the best Christianity has to offer.

www.youtube.com...

Much faster to listen than read if you do not mind.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Akragon
[i

What makes you think "babies" have not sinned in their previous lives?
]

Mostly just common sense and a clear mind.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

The only reason man put that in the bible is that those who follow the man made word of god, the bible, would get their children baptised and make them jump through hoops in the name of god (controle and money) COndition them early on so they will be more easily controled later on.

No argument.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by BrokenCircles

 

Well lets put it this way....

IF you had millions of children... And they routenely stoned people to death for the most ridiculous reasons, and you had one "special" child who understood the exact way you wanted your children to act.

This child volenteers to sacrifice himself so that the rest of your children could live better lives...

Would you send your "special" child to attempt to help them, even though you know the other children will mock and make fun of him, and eventually kill him because of what he taught.

Sacrifice one for the needs of the many?

Even if a few of these children "heard" what he had to say and agreed with it, and attempted to spread that message... i would say mission accomplished.

Oh and lets not forget... His death is only the death of the body... his spirit still lives

edit on 10-10-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

So all we have to do to be saved is embrace human sacrifice because a God did not really die for us and we must think it good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

You go ahead and ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven. Satan will open up and take you in hand for your good moral position.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Bleeeeep

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

You're not considering that God exists outside of time and everything we do has already happened.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
If we have no choice in following our sin natures, and cannot deviate from our part in God’s plan, then what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

You do have a choice.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
That child’s God given nature will choose life, as all natures do by default, and eat an apple. Does that child deserve hell when it’s God given nature drove it to sin?

Good and evil only exist as intentions - not deeds. If that child ate the apple without knowing it was for someone else then he has done no wrong.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
We cannot do anything but follow our basic God given natures. Do we deserve hell for doing so?

If you have a conscience then you have a choice whether or not to act on your ill intentions.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Is God’s punishment unjust?

No.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
If sin was required for Jesus to manifest, Adam had to sin. Would his punishment and death have also been unjust?

Jesus existed before mankind, so sin wasn't required for his existence. If you are saying sin was needed for Jesus to be born in human form then there's no way anyone can dispute that because no one knows. Although, one can say he may have also been here for other reasons.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Did God, knowing Adam would be a sinner and cause God’s/Jesus’ death, hate Adam as well when he was creating him?

Adam didn't cause Jesus' death. If you use that kind of logic then you must trace the death back to God - since God created Adam. I think he loved Adam and that is why he allowed Jesus to die for our sins.

 

Remember, don't confuse deeds with intentions. The tree of knowledge of good and evil gave us our conscience. We learned of evil and that is what will surely kill us - ill intentions(evil).

Jesus existed before his mother did. Cool.

Jesus also said that to think of a sin was as good as doing it.

And you cannot help but do evil if you are alive.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL
------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by cuopar
All I know is whenever I presume to know the Mind of God, I am quickly put in my place. I'm just gonna trust that He knows what He's doing.

Trust in a genocidal son murderer.

Good idea.

That is called Stockholm syndrome.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by coyotepoet
I rather like the theory that the "original sin" was the discovery of sexual reproduction by the genetically engineered by aliens people that were "Adam" and "Eve."

Expression of duality does not mean that God "hates" us. Gotta know dark to know light-without one there could not be another because there would be no point of reference.

This also does not take into account reincarnation and the idea that our souls choose the lives we are born into for the purposes of spiritual evolution.

I think religion has confused you and twisted up your brain.

Is that from you or the you you used to me?

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

So all we have to do to be saved is embrace human sacrifice

I didn't say that... Not even close actually...

ALL will be saved..

because a God did not really die for us

Correct... His son did... And you might notice he didn't die for us...

he died because of us... (us being humans)

1. His followers wouldn't stand up for him...

2. Those that opposed him did not understand him...

and we must think it good justice to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Didn't say that either... Sounds like OT rubbish to me...

You go ahead and ride your scapegoat Jesus into heaven. Satan will open up and take you in hand for your good moral position.

Pardon me if i...

Im not Christian... And Jesus is not a scapegoat...

Though many times hes used as such

Originally posted by stupid girl
Why do you continue to make intentionally provocative threads with the sole intention to goad people of faith?

Let's take a look at some of those little gems, shall we?

God is immoral
Women: God's afterthought
When you become a god, will you use evil the way He does
God does not follow morality
God is the greatest sinner
God pleasures in creating evil
Who's the most evil: God or Satan
God's attributes include evil iniquity
God cannot love or be Love
Is evil a tool of God's boredom
God should bow to man because He's a crappy parent
Is religion institutional child abuse
God profits from murder & genocide
Why do you follow a genocidal god
In the beginning the temple resembled a whore house (you actually spelled it "hoar" house which made me guffaw outloud)

and, of course, now we have the pleasure of adding this little beauty about God hating babies to all the other ones to choose from, which are not mentioned above.

I don't, for one fraction of a second, believe that any of these inane threads are honest inquiries in which you are simply seeking genuine understanding.

I would say more, but I have other really more important things to do. Like, stack toiletpaper rolls or something.....

It is not a word I use often and I was using my French accent.
Merci ma belle for the advertising. Are you ready to join my fan club?
If not. Do try to refute anything I say if you have the balls.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by DarkKnight21

Originally posted by jiggerj
Just going with your theory, if a man dies with a sin on his soul, does just the sin go to hell, or the soul?

If the soul does indeed go to hell, does that prove that God is unjust?

I hate to answer your question with a question but I think it's necessary to clarify each other's perspectives first.

Personally I think of sin as a disease, and that the purpose of this life is to find the Cure. At any point in time we are either walking towards the cure or running from it, and to deny our own sinful nature is to deny that we have a disease at all.

It's like if the zombie apocalypse happened and a survival colony didn't let you in because you were infected. That doesn't mean that the survival colony is acting selfishly, because it is for the benefit of the group. Sin is contagious. Maybe we already are living in the zombie apocalypse and we are already among the living dead.

edit on 10/11/2012 by DarkKnight21 because: (no reason given)

So God cures us with purposeless eternal torture of those he loves.

Oh wait, after we are well roasted he kills us is in that other lake of fire. A great cure.
Almost as good as the Christian method of finding out if you are a witch.
By killing you if you are and killing you if you are not.

God is good and so is his church. All will know that if they happen to live. Oops. Not God's rule that.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Akragon

because a God did not really die for us

Correct... His son did... And you might notice he didn't die for us...

Let me get this straight now.

www.youtube.com...

Nope. You don't know what you are talking about.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


LMAO!!

So says a youTube Video....

Im sorry i stand corrected

Perhaps you might point me to the Gospel according to youtube...

i seem to have overlooked that one

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

LMAO!!
]

I guess you think that was what the children and babies were doing as they died at God's murdering hand.

Regards
DL

I... can't believe... i'm replying to this.... (with a William Shatner star trek voice over for my opening).

God hates wickedness (evil) as defined by him. Babies cannot be wicked because they do not know right from wrong and thus cannot sin and both they, and children up to the age of accountability (they learn right from wrong) and mentally handicapped or retarded people fall under that clause. You cannot sin if you do not know right from wrong. Everyone else now, is fair game.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I... can't believe... i'm replying to this.... (with a William Shatner star trek voice over for my opening).

God hates wickedness (evil) as defined by him. Babies cannot be wicked because they do not know right from wrong and thus cannot sin and both they, and children up to the age of accountability (they learn right from wrong) and mentally handicapped or retarded people fall under that clause. You cannot sin if you do not know right from wrong. Everyone else now, is fair game.

Sounds good but it is not in any way what scriptures say.
We are all born in sin.
I like that you have exonerated Adam and Eve and the whole concept of original sin though.
That was always a noxious policy and view.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


It seems "Greater I am" you get around. See this thread almost word for word in other threads. Google is wonderful. Just search "Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?". Perhaps Greater I Am can cite scripture (in context) to support the claims.
Greater I Am:
Tell us what you think the Creator owes the creation? Should the pot tell the potter what is right or wrong? Or, the pen & paper tell the architect how to design?
No God owes us nothing, because without God, we are nothing. No one is innocent, not even babies. If a baby perrishes, for whatever reason, God has still done no wrong, as we all will leave this existance either sooner, or later.
As for the soul of the child, God will be the judge. My assumption is that since the child had no ability or oppertunity to fall away from God, he would see no wrong from that child. (my assumption).

When it comes to Adam, sin, and evil you seem to be outraged that a loving God would allow such things. Of course God allows evil in the world. I will point out that even after being told not to eat from the tree of knowledge, Adam and Eve still chose to do so. I don't recall them being forced to eat the fruit, do you? It is their rebellion which manifested into sin. The price for sin is death. Adam and Eve where responsible for the lost of paradise on earth. I guess you would have to say Adam and Eve where indirectly responsible for babies dying for breaking the Law of God.
So, why would God allow this to happen if He knew what humans would do? Well, why do people have kids if we know they will be killers or saints? Because even though He knew what would happen, He still loves us. You can still love your children but not approve of what they do.
God gave us a way to come back to him through the blood of Christ. See Christ paid for us through his death. The wage of sin was paid for. Acceptance of Christ's sacrifice will not result in a spiritual death, but everlasting life. Its a loophole to the Law of God.
Greater I am, if you are serious about finding answers...awsome. But if this is a twisted pastime of yours (to try to be disrespectful to people's religious beliefs) shame on you for being what you accuse God of being...hateful.
So be respectful and lets continue, or you can just copy/paste this thread onto another internet forum. As for me, I've said what I needed to say.
God Bless