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who likes the occult /mystery teachings but can't bring themselves to join like minded individuals?

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posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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So I was thinking.

How many people here are like me in that they enjoy the occult, mystery school teachings, and ancient wisdom in general, but cannot align themselves to ever join a fraternity/ sorority like the masons, or whatever?

I truly enjoy the occult, I find myself gravitating towards the teachings, and tend to really get along with their members, have some good friends that are masons for example, but I can't ever see myself joining if it were offered.

My dilemma is the oaths you must take to secrecy. I take my oaths very seriously. You could make me take an oath in which I had to protect the fact that the world would end, and I wouldn't even find a reed hut to talk to to warn people.

I can't bring myself to lie so easily. I see it as a lie. If I know the truth, and I keep it from you, I do a disservice. When I am tricked into making an oath of secrecy, like between myself and a friend, and it involves another person who might benefit from the knowledge, it bothers me, but I keep my mouth shut. Then I can lie. But I can only because I see it as honoring my other friend and his faith in me. I honor him.

If I can help people to learn what I have learned, pass along the little I know about life and love, and whatever, I would be ashamed to not be able to do so freely.

The oaths of secrecy to keep wisdom from my fellow man is what would kill me. I could keep an oath, but I would do so to honor my fellow members OVER mankind. If I made the oath, then so be it. The thing is I can't do so willingly with the fore knowledge that I must be silent in passing along teachings to the uninitiated , because anything I learn would only be for the benefit of my fellow members.

It is like being employed for a company that has proprietary rights over your work, home and in the office. If you make a discovery that will improve mankind, you will have to ask your employer to release it. Imagine it is a cure for cancer. You would watch everyone around you with cancer die, knowing how to help them. Hands tied because of an oath of secrecy.

I don't think I would discover anything that important, but it is the whole concept of keeping the "profane" profane that I can't understand. I would want to bring the true light of enlightenment to the world, not keep it to myself so I can peek at it in my coat pocket.

I would set it ablaze and put the sun to shame, freely, and openly for all mankind to benefit from its light and warmth.

So that is why I could never join the masons or any other society that has "secrets" meant to benefit the members and to be kept from humanity.

Maybe I am naive. Maybe it is a sense of loyalty to my species or my fellow man. I just can't bring myself to keep good from good men.

is anyone out there like me? am I just trying to create a dilemma where there is none?

edit on 10-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


You already are...You're a member of ATS...


Not everyone here has the same opinions, but we all have a love of learning and of sharing information...
...and we have no oaths of secrecy here.


edit on 10-10-2012 by isyeye because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by isyeye
 


true, I never thought of ATS in that way....but yeah...


Nice.



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


Don't wait to be offered, it shouldn't ever happen. To become a mason, you have to ask for admission of your own free will. And if you have no desire to join, then there is nothing keeping you from the knowledge that is out there. The lessons we teach are simple and most, you have already been taught. You just learn them in a different way with freemasonry.

There are many organizations that put out knowledge for the general public. I know you can join AMORC by mail order and you never have to meet with anyone. I have heard mixed stories on what is taught, but all in all, I'd say any knowledge is good as long as you understand it and want to learn it.

You may find that later in life you want the other things that masonry has to offer, like fellowship, friendship, and mentor ship. But either way, looking for light is always an enlightening experience. Just don't go looking for darkness, as people generally find what they are looking for.



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


well, I do like the concept of mentorship and fellowship. I don't know, maybe later in life when I am not the person I am today,

any hoot, thanks
edit on 10-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Non issue. Your only real oath in Masonry is to not divulge the modes of recognition. Handshakes and whatnot. The other stuff is personal, and "revealing" it would be meaningless because it's different for everyone.

I don't join anything because I'm not a big meeting guy, and not exactly what you'd call a 'people person' anyway. My capacity for annoyance is way too thin for me to ever agree to associate with any particular group on a regular, formal basis unless I can be extremely selective about who's in the group.

Anything of value you can get from the teachings of Masonry are freely available in a variety of places. Those who get value from the social and fraternal aspects can get that from Masonry, or any other fraternal or service or religious organization. The secrecy thing in Masonry is way overblown and exaggerated by people who are encouraged by the nutballs who have proliferated around the Internet and have their own agenda, or delusions in my opinion.

Anyway, I can't join like-minded individuals because like-minded individuals, for me, don't join stuff.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


Good Luck on your journey.
If you ever need clarification on things masonic, just ask. If we don't know, we will find someone who does.



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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As I post I am making a pentagon of salt on my office floor and lighting candles and chanting as I post on ATS!



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by nighthawk1954
 


don't forget to walk in backwards and salute all the mirrors you pass by rubbing your belly and tapping your head.

lol



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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I am pushed and nudged strongly to connect dots on everything, and to pay attention to some of their beliefs, but not to ever step into any of their boxes and paradigms, there is ultimately, even amongst the white hat branches of the rosicrucian, which has a lot of interesting information, but still a dualistic god/creator and a belief that negative dark side created this universe and we're being used as slaves, and that unless we can form our light body and astrally project, and protect our memories from lifetime to lifetime, we are still recycled, with our memories taken again from us, so we have to work to retain our knowledge and grade each lifetime and to leave

And its not like that. This is a hijacked world, and its been brought down, in frequency to more of a darkside realm, BUT, there is no duality on Higher Levels, and as for getting wiped, that happens if you come in here over and over like groundhog day the movie. But that is only temporary. We get it all back.

There are distortions in mystery school. They don't remember home. Some of its very good information. I actually connect my own dots without reading tons of manuscripts however, but will sail in and glean some info here and there, when it comes to me, is meant to be seen by me. I have a very strong belief in synchronicity, and that when something is needed, it will present itself.
edit on 10-10-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by nighthawk1954
 


don't forget to walk in backwards and salute all the mirrors you pass by rubbing your belly and tapping your head.

lol


Yes! Yes and I have my two black cats and my two white cats at my feet...Oh And my black southern hound dog!



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I would like to think that my occasional interest in occult/esoteric teachings is more academic than most, and that I'm nowhere near as fuzzy-headed, creepy and generally odd as other people I see interested in it. I have no particular desire to associate myself with a bunch of weirdos who think they can overcome their social ineptitude and gain power with the help of demons or alchemy.

On the other hand, perhaps I have an inflated opinion of myself, and I'm just as creepy and weird as those other people.

Na-a-a-ah!



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


Mason or not, its always nice to find a fellow light seeker. Friend button has been pushed.


As someone else mentioned, the man that waits for an invitation to Masonry will wait forever.

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you."
Matthew 7:7


"I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it."
Quote from "The Matrix"


You MUST come of your own free will. Truth does not seek, it must be sought. The ancient teachings of Masonry and other mystery schools can only be given to those that seek it of their own free will. I realize I'm going in circles on the same thing here, but its important.

Yes, all initiates to Masonry will be sworn to secrecy. Remember, the wisdom of these orders are ONLY able to be realized in all their esoteric splendor if you come of your own free will... so passing out secrets to people doesn't really work. If they want to know the secrets, they must seek them.

As someone else posted, its not like you could even tell someone if you wanted to. You have to come to the "ah ha!" moments on your own, of your own free will, and no one else could even begin to just tell you about it. They might get the first layers or esoteric meaning, but there is far more to it that you can only learn on your own.

It is also important that Masonry not tell everyone about everything so as to keep the practices and rituals preserved on our long journey through the ages. The practices, rituals and deep esoteric meanings would be warped and twisted in the centuries to come if all of the uninitiated people were just handed all the rituals and secrets.

Not everyone is ready for the ancient wisdom. Not everyone seeks it. So not everyone can know. The day that every human being decides of their own free will to seek the light, then everyone can know


It is also worth mentioning that the secrets of Masonry are all around you. You can learn the truth on your own (if you are seeking it). Ancient orders such as Freemasonry provide a wonderful framework for all of these concepts and ideas, but if you want to start from scratch and become enlightened on your own.... its possible. But not likely. Freemasonry also holds certain secrets that are not available to the uninitiated...

By keeping the secrets, you aren't lying or wronging your fellow man. In fact, simply giving them the secrets without the proper ritual and degrees may do mankind more harm than good! If you care about humanity, you must keep the powerful ancient wisdom away from them until they are ready and willing to seek it on their own. And even then, you cannot simply dump it on them. Cognizence of enlightenment just doesn't work that way.

The real lie would be to "tell" the masses "these are the secrets and here is the truth".

Its not about "keeping" the profane "profane". Its about realizing that the people still wandering in the "profane" unenlightened world are not ready for the mysteries until they desire to leave the "profane" world and seek the light. Its about making the mysteries readily available to those that see the "profanity" of the world and wish to seek greater truth and wisdom.

And again - Masonry is not the only way to truth. As I've said over and over, truth can only be found within one's self. Masonry is a way to the truth, and a very good one, but all the magic occurs in your own mind and conscious. No one can just give it to you.

I, myself, struggled with my own thoughts of Masonry for years. Thinking its great, thinking its evil, etc. The usual internet stuff. But after years of going back and forth, and continuing to research and read about a great many things, I finally came to an "ah ha" moment of my own. I just kind of "got" the idea and purpose behind it. So I petitioned a lodge of my own free will and accord, thinking to myself, "Hey, if this gets weird, you can always walk away."

I've barely missed a day at lodge since.



"And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them."
Isaiah 42:16


A wise man knows he knows nothing
edit on 10-10-2012 by Heliophant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I truly enjoy the occult...

...I can't bring myself to lie so easily. I see it as a lie.


Very interesting thread...

The thing that caught my eye was this:

The OP hates lies and seems to love the truth yet at the same time he loves the occult.

I see the occult as one HUGE stealth lie created by the father of ALL lies.

The utter irony and real sadness of all of this is that so many are honestly seeking the truth and yet they are looking in all of the wrong places.

The truth has been written in human hearts, which is why the heart longs for truth.

Because of all of the lies, the truth is rejected.

Jesus declared, “I am the way, the truth and the life".

If you ever decide to REALLY go after the truth, that is the place to look.

He IS the truth and the source of ALL truth.



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Heliophant
 



thanks for all the replies thus far. They have helped me understand that much more.

In regards to your post Heliophant, I agree with you that it is not wise or "good" to simply toss things around at people for the sake of conversation or just to give them something they will either not appreciate or even understand.

I tend to only have conversations with people about what I think they might be interested in. I tend to listen more and respond as best I can. I chime in to add things I think relevant.

I had a conversation with my wife today about my daughters communion. She wanted her to get her dress, party, ect. I said I didn't want her to have her communion until she could understand what it was about. I said that if my wife wanted to explain it to her, then she should have communion. If not, I wouldn't like for her to receive it.

I said that because I think it makes it less of an initiation into the catholic faith, and it just becomes another event in her life. I have nothing against Catholics. I was raised catholic, but I was taught to respect the traditions of any faith since they are the only moral guide most people have sometimes. If they are thrown aside, then their morality can be discarded similarly. It is not that good people can't be faithless, but most need a rule book when better ways do not come naturally to them.

I don't want my daughter to grow up and see being a good person as a corny and lame thing like her lessons about the good Samaritan she found boring before she could even understand them.

I want her to have real faith in things, and be true to herself. If she wants to be catholic, then fine, but I would like for it to come from her. That it should be appreciated and respected, so that the truth she might discover will be held high, and not tossed aside when things get tough.

IMO, to make things trivial, and toss them around like birthday cake, is just horrible. If when you think to something, you think to its purest form, its maximum truth you know, you will always see its other forms, because you respected the one.

I don't want her to think that the things we do, our traditions, are as worthless as old sneakers. Useful for a while, but can be outgrown. I want her to see them as feet, that will grow with her ability to walk, no matter the shoe she wears. So her journey will be honest and true.

She can become a Buddhist, or whatever. I dont care. I just don't want her to jump around because nothing fills her. I want her to be filled and grow, and if what she fills her cup with does not satisfy her, for the reason she sets out again to be because she has grown, not because she "wants" something "bigger" to fill the cup, instead of seeing a bigger cup VS a smaller one.

I don't know, went on a tangent, sorry.....I understand what you are saying though, I firmly believe it.

I was just under the impression that the flow of knowledge from one to another was only permitted from member to member, and that even if you met someone who would be worthy of being taught, that he must be a fellow member first. I have met interesting people and learned from them more than I could ever show them, they taught me much. If I had to get all introversive over certain subjects with them that would be terrible and rude.

I love learning and sharing knowledge. I like to learn more than I can offer, but only because I am limited in what I can offer. I get excited when people of like minds are around and we fuel each other's passions and imaginations.

I guess I might be off key when it comes to how the initiated can act around like minded people, who happen to not be members. For some reason I thought it was forbidden to carry a normal conversation without restrictions on certain subjects, because of membership.

In the end, I will not say that I know everything I need now. I think I know very little, but I like the challenge of forging a road. Maybe that is my youth.

I get what you are saying though, it is as worthless to give what is not sought after, as it is to receive what you do not know you need. Certain things must be discovered by the seeker, and cannot be shown by the ones who see them. That is true.

thanks for the insight.
Have a good one.


edit on 10-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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I definitely feel the same as you. I have attended some lectures as Masonic Halls and am planning on going to some at the Gnostic Center but don't think at this point I will join any group.

I have a problem with the secrecy too, at one point it was needed. those who studied in these topics were harassed and killed. also, making sure the knowledge didn't fall completely into "bad hands" was a concern. obviously this happened and here we are.

Anyone please correct me if Im wrong but other than that Mason no other groups, like OTO, Gnostics, AMORC, Golden Dawn, etc. don't say anything about secrecy right? All of the information is out there for self directed study, at this point, there isn't much that is secret.

My 2 cents...



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by wrdwzrd
I have a problem with the secrecy too, at one point it was needed. those who studied in these topics were harassed and killed.
And that was still happening as recently as 10 years ago. Under Saddam Hussein, Masons were beheaded. Tyrants and dictators don't like Masons, because they can't control us. Even here on ATS there are people who state "the only good Mason is a dead Mason." That's hate speech, any way you cut it.




Anyone please correct me if Im wrong but other than that Mason no other groups, like OTO, Gnostics, AMORC, Golden Dawn, etc. don't say anything about secrecy right? All of the information is out there for self directed study, at this point, there isn't much that is secret.
AGAIN there isn't much that is secret in Masonry either. Only the passwords and hand signs, and all of that has been available in books for 300 years. So your argument doesn't carry much weight.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 



your right about masons being punished and persecuted historically by dictators and authoritarian rule. I am not referring to the series of catholic witch hunts throughout its history against masons, and other groups. In WW2 Germany persecuted masons and had many killed. I read about it once while researching the Reichstag fire, apparently apart from blaming commies, they blamed masons as well.

There are memorials all over Europe apparently. I have only seen a picture of one though, and it was over the internet.

That drew huge flags that everything I thought about masons was a little off, being that Hitler and the Nazis were fringe occultist.

It helped to clarify things seeing them stand against ignorance and oppression from raging lunatics.

edit on 11-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-10-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


Carl Jung loved the occult and rumor has it he also managed to love Jesus/God too.
I think education is good -- but remember what happened to Solomon and never trade wisdom for power.
He was burning kids to Moloch by the end of his years...

...And his line failed!



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by Heliophant
 

I was just under the impression that the flow of knowledge from one to another was only permitted from member to member, and that even if you met someone who would be worthy of being taught, that he must be a fellow member first. I have met interesting people and learned from them more than I could ever show them, they taught me much.

[...]

I guess I might be off key when it comes to how the initiated can act around like minded people, who happen to not be members. For some reason I thought it was forbidden to carry a normal conversation without restrictions on certain subjects, because of membership.

Masons are people, too.
They like to talk to people. And they certainly love bringing people to light. Of course, they kinda like to do it the Masonic way, but Masons can still talk about a lot of things. As long as it doesn't violate his Masonic obligation, he can talk about anything! You don't even have to worry about what you can and can't say to him; the Mason knows his limits very well.

So the flow of information from a Mason to the uninitiated is regulated, but can still flow along nicely. After all, such discussions are how each and every Mason began his Masonic journey!


I get what you are saying though, it is as worthless to give what is not sought after, as it is to receive what you do not know you need. Certain things must be discovered by the seeker, and cannot be shown by the ones who see them. That is true.

Wise words, indeed. Ancient wisdom and enlightenment simply don't work with the "drive-thru" model. You need a walk-in, sit-down, three course meal.


edit on 11-10-2012 by Heliophant because: (no reason given)





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