ATS And External Indoctrination

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posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


Respectful answer and good points. I am not griping about stars and flags and how they are distributed. I am merely connecting dots and made some personal observations on how societal norms have a direct impact on the group psyche of the people of this planet as a collective whole and noticing a possible pattern of parallel thinking on ATS between the threads I have read and which ones garnered the most attention and by whom - as well as stars based by what I have seen. Popularity is something that can be measured on here by responses as well as the distribution of those stars and flags in some threads and by some posters in the threads.

edit on 13-10-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-10-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





The greatest reward one gets here on ATS is the very opportunity to post what you feel and think FREELY and ANNONYMOUSLY, something that is gradually getting rarer and practically non-existant in some countries today.


Compared to some other countries..yes..you have a point , but quite frankly I don't think we are totally free in expressing our opinions as you suggest, and as far as remaining anonymous, I'll bet you that admin has the means to know exactly where you are posting from, even through proxies , and have far more information on members here than we realize. We may be anonymous to many of the members, but we are not anonymous to everyone.




Ranks exists not on ATS, only the value of your thoughts which are representative of who you are and your intentions, as a fellow human sharing views with the world, in many different topics offered here.


Ranks don't exist? So I guess those silver and gold borders around some members post mean nothing?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't see the truth in much of your post.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by WhisperingWinds
 


1. Does those 'silver or gold borders' mean anything to you when you offer your honest reply?

Does those 'silver or gold borders' make you accept whatever they are posting as truths that must not be challenged?

Your answers to those questions will reveal the truth of my post regarding the rank issue.


2. Most certainly the admins know who we are, and if requested by the relevant authorities with the proper papers, they will produce our personal information. I am not naive.

But neither am I fearful. We are responsible for what we write, and we must always be ready to stand up for it, to face any consequences ourselves and not let others shoulder that blame.

Thus, be fully aware of what you post. If in doubt or fearful, dont post.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Rubicant13
 


I concur wholeheartedly .Since joining ATS, I have been extemely impressed by some of the member` s expertise and willingness to assist me in becoming an accepted member of this group.There are quite a few genuine people willing to listen and offer advice but unfortunately the people that ridicule and/or terminate a thread before it even gets started tend to rule the roost. Im of the opinion that if you cant say something nice dont say it. Thankyou for voicing what needed to be said!



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Rubicant13
 


I have seen and experienced what you and others have described and it can be frustrating at times. I’ve seen some of the lamest one-liners get starred while the OP receives very little. Sometimes it’s well deserved though. Sometimes the OP is ridiculous and the first or second person who responds simply draws attention to the ignorance of the argument made. The subsequent stars are stars of agreement. Sometimes it has to do with who is on ATS when you post. Sometimes it has to do with how many people are posting threads that day (it doesn’t take long to fall off the radar). Some of the most senior members (maybe the top 10 WATS members) do have a bit of a following but I would argue they’ve earned it; they’ve put in the work.

All of us start out with ZERO. I started out with zero just 1 year ago. I’ve made nearly 200 threads in my short time here and many of them got little to no recognition at all (even some very recent threads I’ve made fell flat). Some of the threads I consider to be “my best work” were the least recognized. As a matter of fact, out of my 200 threads, I only have a few that received more flags than your thread here!


My advice is this: Enjoy ATS and don’t be discouraged. Keep plugging away and enjoy the ride and you WILL be recognized eventually. ATS is a reflection of the real world. Plenty of people work hard and don't get the recognition they feel they've earned. You just keep working......

S&F

edit on 13-10-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 





1. Does those 'silver or gold borders' mean anything to you when you offer your honest reply? Does those 'silver or gold borders' make you accept whatever they are posting as truths that must not be challenged? Your answers to those questions will reveal the truth of my post regarding the rank issue.


You make your point, because I pay little attention to the borders.

But the fact remains that ATS does rank members, and the borders are an indication of that fact.

I'm sure many members do pay attention to the ranking...and some, I'm sure, are intimidated to challenge a member with the borders.

edit on 13-10-2012 by WhisperingWinds because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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I personally don't come here for the intelligent, well written, informative posts and threads.

Give me the bizarre, the off the wall, psychotic rants, high strange cryptic, zany, funny, creatively wacko stuff.

But as an oldtimer/retread I have seen the changes to ATS and I don't think it's external indoctrination but I could be wrong. Like another poster said; it's just the social microcosm and it's fluctuations.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by WhisperingWinds

I'm sure many members do pay attention to the ranking...and some, I'm sure, are intimidated to challenge a member with the borders.



No human is perfect. ATS is not some exclusive members club for stars. It is open to all who comes and stay in free will, to choose freely the topics or threads we have here dating back over a decade.

Thus, NEVER, ever be intimidated by ANY challengers in ANY form, as long as you hold dear to your beliefs. Humankind are fully capable of rationality,logic and reason, and fully capable of changing others if we are right, or be changed if we are wrong.

Only ego and pride often gets in the way of posters, but one needs not seek change with them. It is the silent readers whom are the ones who enters ATS whom will consider worthy posts, and they number by the millions around the world.

This is what sharing, discussing and debating over issues to find a better path is all about which had built civilisations around our world since creation till today.

Good luck and cheers! :-)
edit on 13-10-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by Rubicant13
 


I'm only on page 1, and a late-comer, but the flags you have received are well-deserved.

I hadn't heard of you before, so, this SnF isn't coming from some previous "popularity" thing. I think you are exactly right. As I read through the OP, I had many thoughts worth sharing. Thanks for posting this.

Group dynamics; fascinating stuff.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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I want to agree, but the stars do have a purpose.

Just looking at this thread... I clicked it, I saw that the first post had many stars, so I read it... and it was good. Without a star system, I may have missed it completely because I actually didnt click it until now and it was created several days ago.

But yes, you are correct. People are so used to following the leader in society that they follow the "leader" (meaning well known posters) here as well. And its a cummulative effect, meaning a post with many stars gets the attention of many others, thereby getting even more stars.

edit on 13-10-2012 by Bodhi911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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I am also relatively new to the site and likewise have been reading threads long before joining. I personally see no merit in the star system. If no one stars my comment, it will not change my opinion nor does it alter my way of writing in an attempt to garner more stars. Do stars act as some sort of online currency I am not aware of? Or are they used as method of patting yourself on the back because we need reassurance that others agree with us? That being said, I do like the flags as it serves a purpose to allow exposure to something people deem entertaining or interesting. As far as one liners go, I don't understand the contempt for them. Sure a person may have spent more time structuring a well thought out thread but it does not mean that the one liner someone posted is any less appreciated by others. A lot can be said in one sentence and I find that a quick funny zinger can be refreshing after pouring over thousands of words. Stars or no stars, the one liners and the long well structured posts both have their place.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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I don't really take notice of the name of the poster. I don't care who said a thing, I care more about what is said. Then again i am never really trying to get into a relationship with anyone on the internet... or in real life. Any tips on how a loner can get a wife and kid(s)?

On the Stars thing, it's more akin to Like's on Facebook. More for the reader to express agreement or enjoyment of the post without having to post themselves, than for the poster to collect little gold stars from teacher.
Also gold stars do not equal love. lol
p.s. I had never noticed the Gold and Silver borders til the above poster pointed them out. They are very thin... probably too thin to be seen accidentally.
edit on 13/10/2012 by Lucas73 because: to add stuff.
edit on 13/10/2012 by Lucas73 because: changed then to than. sooo grammar I guess
edit on 14/10/2012 by Lucas73 because: Added the bit about borders



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:41 AM
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I think the single most important thing that I have tried to convey in this is the psychology behind some things that are seen here on an everyday basis. It's not about even so much about who earns stars and flags, or how many. It's looking into the psycho-social dynamic behind why you as an individual selects who deserves what - as far as being rewarded in such manners on here and pondering the motivations behind them.
edit on 14-10-2012 by Rubicant13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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If they are long-standing members with a bazillion flags it reassures me that this member has gone though the fire and came out the other side unscathed and still credible.
Anyone can say they are an astrophysicist or a teacher or a ghostbuster, but then they have put their money where their mouth is and, to me, a large repertoire of accolades (flags) show that they have done just that.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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It would be interesting to see the actuarial demographics of the members at ATS. I know that I try to post the highest quality content I can about 90% percent of the time. The remaining 10% goes from the mildly comical to the intellectual equivalent of staggering out of the saloon with my foot stuck in the spitoon.

But who am I posting to? I'm beginning to be curious about who the other members are. Students, retirees, working adults, people serving time, boiler room operatives, monkeys in a lab? It would be nice to know.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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Great thread! I agree and I wish I had more to say but you know it’s a good thread when the OP tames your curiosity. S&F



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Nice thread OP


I've learnt thread titles make a huge difference to the attention a thread gets, sadly I still suck at making up a good title


In the last couple of months I've noticed adding a few pictures can really boost the attention a thread gets


I've also noticed posters with 'good' avatars tend to get more stars and flags


You make some great points, I definetely agree people 'jump on the bandwagon' at times with threads that don't really deserve much attention considering their content whilst some excellent threads are ignored.

Rarely now, will I take the time to put huge effort into a thread, as it seems the more effort you put in, the less attention your thread is given. It's happened too many times where I've really took the time to put together something well thought out and the thread gets like 2-3 replies that are off topic insults.





edit on 15-10-2012 by Wonderer2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Hey Rube!

I starred and flagged this thread before it had a single reply but have hesitated to comment for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is this subject matter is one I often create threads about - and have garnered a fair bit of criticism because of. I did not want to bring any of that bad, subject associated mojo in the door with me.


Group dynamics are insanely involved things. There are easy to spot indicators, such as flags, stars, and such, but there are underlying currents that are much harder to spot and much more profound. Instinctive factors, such as a desire to belong and to be accepted... Gender identity cues - guys tend to gravitate towards members and posts that happen to show a pretty female as an avatar... and self-validation - a tendency to star or flag anything that closely matches ones own views.

The latter example is the one that I find troubling. IMO this is where individuality becomes a generic. For instance, if I have a very specific notion of, say, religion - and an OP gets me emotionally charged up to reply I might see an early response that is somewhat close to my own views. If so, I might star that post, quite enthusiastically, even though it is only similar to my own views, but not exact. In the act of starring that post, I might feel emotionally validated and sated. IE I might not bother to respond with my own, unique viewpoint - feeling that the other persons statement was close enough, as they say, for horseshoes and hand grenades.

In this aspect, we tend to give up our own voices in deferment to the generic idea.

Flags and stars themselves? Well, I've been around awhile and can say, quite honestly, that the system works better than not having one. If SkepticOverlord disabled all stars and flags right this second? Some would rejoice for a week or two. But then someone ( maybe even one of those who had rejoiced ) would post a Board and Business forum thread asking for some way to differentiate the wheat from the chaff. And the uproar would begin building in that direction.

Honestly speaking, my own cue is familiar avatars and member names. There are avatars that I see and immediately read whatever is written... and there are avatars that cue me in to just skip anything that's said. I think this is probably a common way of approaching the issue. I also tend to star anyone who replies to me in a productive manner - pro or con. But this is a personal way of approaching it. As for flagging? If I like the thread, I flag it. Often I'll flag threads I don't agree with simply because the OP obviously put work and research into it.

Regarding indoctrination. We aren't really using any social cues online that we don't use offline. They just have a different mechanism here. The real danger, IMO, is that online our group dynamics can be recorded, analyzed, and studied much more accurately than ever before. IE I'm less worried about the system manipulating me right now - as I am worried that it's learning how to do so with every key I type.

~Heff

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
edit on 10/15/12 by Hefficide because: clarity



posted on Oct, 15 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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Great thread and eyeopener for regulars and newbies that have allot to tell to the world , Because I think if you have the passion to write good stories you can do this here at best. I'm always trying to give well written stories flag and star. And honestly I am more interested in certain topics then others. But a good headliner always does the trick to get attention to what you want to tell the people. And It doesn't matter to me who's writing that particular thread.

But I can agree that you have to find your way around here.And still learning. Many times I've thought to leave this place but It just that attraction to me that seems hard to detach from. I have to exhaust once and awhile to ease my mind...
edit on 21/12/2010 by 0bserver1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 23 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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Well, this thread got a S&F from me, for being well written, and on a topic that should concern people.

You bring up valid points, and open discussion of a very relevant part of human nature. It's a fact that there will be some of this behavior any place that many people gather. It's also a fact that the worst offenders will seldom, if ever, admit to such behavior. Cliques are a reality.

That said, I do have to say that this site is far better about that than pretty much any other place I have ever posted. I don't say that lightly, either. That is one reason that I joined, after years of "lurking" and reading the threads. For the most part, nonsense isn't tolerated, and people try and listen to even new members. Sure, errors can be made, because we are all human, but the staff seems to actually care, and that isn't the case on a LOT of websites. One that I visited for years, I virtually never bother with anymore because of this very issue. Literal gangs of people, attacking any that weren't in the "in group", pouncing on new members as though they were chum, and worse. ATS isn't like that, and it's very refreshing!

I think there can be other reasons that some threads and posts get more attention, besides just the standard popularity thing. Here, a lot seems to be (from what I have observed as a "sometimes here" member) what topic happens to resonate with people at a given time. Certain things tend to be popular at certain times, and that's ok. I do know that the few threads I posted did get some attention. Maybe not as much as I hoped, but that's ok. Some good discussion, some debate, and that's all great. Personally, I don't tend to worry about whose thread it is, when I read one, save to keep track of the OP in the thread. There are members whose opinions I tend to agree with more, and some I almost never agree with, but I will star any post that I agree with, and flag and star any thread that is interesting, and well written. Yes, even people I disagree with can, and do, get stars. If someone is right, they are right.

In any case, even if there is a bit of that "clique" behavior here, it isn't nearly as bad as it could be. it's a great topic to discuss, though, because we should all be reminded that that sort of thinking isn't right. I believe the ATS community has the best chance of avoiding that kind of thing. We have thinking people, that can agree even with those they dislike much of the time. I have seen agreement from people I have argued with on other threads, and I am sure many of you have as well. I have seen posts from newer people, that were well written, receive attention. Yes, I have, on occasion, seen really good threads not getting attention, and some really not-so-good threads getting too much, but that doesn't seem to be the norm. I think a lot of that is that we have members that can see through the usual tactics made to divide us, and, for the most part, people that are willing to consider other points of view, or at least discuss them rationally even when they disagree.






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