ATS And External Indoctrination

I agree. And I'd like to make a slightly depressing suggestion - even though the ATS motto is "deny ignorance", the truth is, this community is no more or less enlightened than most other groups. It's a cultural niche, certainly, in that we all tend to find 'fringe' topics interesting. But when it comes to increased awareness, independent thought and action, we are not special, generally speaking.

And that's why you find the depressing behavior that you outlined in the OP - because this place mirrors society as a whole in some very undesirable ways.

I'm also new here but can by experience from other forums and real-life encounters that people usually go for what is popular despite that it might be nonsensical to the breaking point. People forget to stay objective and form their own opinion based on their own knowledge and intuition, in my opinion, the way to freedom of the mind. You can't just proclaim someone the messiah based on the opinion of others, you have to discover it yourself through observation without prejudice which can only truly be achieved through cleansing the self of contradictions and observing ones own inherited prejudice. Of course these are only my take on things and should as well be observed with a clean mind

Thank you for speaking to the truth OP.

We all know sock puppets are legion on the internet, and of course they would be here. The only question is who they are.

My theory is some are on ATS just to debunk certain issues, such as chemtrails, they know who other sock puppets are either through direct knowledge or through the type of post other posters post, and they basically have a circle jerk of starring each other to build credibility within ATS. Many of these have never started a single thread or very few.

I remember one poster with over 10,000 posts that had started just a few threads, and those were all aimed at debunking certain topics, not really the aim of ATS which to me seems to introduce these topics and then have people take a shot at debunking them.

As for the manipulation of society, it is covered in my signature below in two of my favorites quotes on that

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reply to post by Rubicant13


Rubi

The mainstream media follows tongue in cheek in it's reporting and glamorization of what you and I should accept as right or wrong - building the framework in our minds what they believe we should imitate and integrate into the inner dynamics and psychological infrastructure of us as individuals and our families. In popular culture and media reporting, popularity indeed rules the day as to what we deem as cool, interesting or worthwhile - most of us following like sheep

This is so true and every day I see everyone around me falling into it. I hear the conversations at work where people discuss for example the popular people of the day, usually famous actors/actresses or sports players or whomever it is that day in the news and it bores me to death. I've always wondered why they find them so fascinating they they feel the need to discuss them to no end. This one has always baffled me, the interest level on such matters. Perhaps its just not my cup of tea.

On the other hand I notice topics of discussion that tend to fall around other headlines such as the major weather events happening around the world and what not...and I do tend to involve myself in these discussions as they are interesting to me. But as pointed out above, it was reported on which swayed me into the discussion in the first place. But would i have ever known about it if it had not been reported on? So we do rely on a certain level of reporting. Without a certain level of reporting we might not even know of an event in the first place that would spark a discussion and hopefully bring about new ideas and whatnot.

This is what makes ATS so cool, a normal everyday person can come on and report a major weather or earth event and it spreads like wildfire. I'd much rather hear it here 1st than anywhere else. Because here, we then have other everyday folk providing updates, not a media source who will sway the reporting based on their agenda.

So according to your above we are being swayed into thinking about what has been reported in popular culture and the media reporting. I agree with you there. If it had not been reported on would we have thought to discuss it?

I have read great threads in different forums with subjects closely relating in content between well established members and new (or not well known yet) members, and in many instances the well known members threads accumulated more attention and responses, as well as star and flag totals.

Do you always tend to honor the values and opinions of members who have a longer history here at ATS because you agree with their opinions more than others?

For me I don't go looking for the well established members threads, if i happen on a title that interests me, I click and read it and if it continues to interest me then i continue to read. Not only does the Original Poster create the thread but everyone who replies helps to make that thread what it is. I want to hear what everyone has to say b/c that is one of the things that pulled me into ATS. I get to read and hear all sides and all points of view from everyday folks like you and like me. Remember the well established members are everyday folk like you and me too, they have just been here alot longer and or posted alot more. If I were only to go to a well established members thread I would be missing out on alot of the really good stuff, some of the hidden gems so to speak and that would be an injustice that I brought upon myself. So I look at all of the threads that I so dare to click on.

Very Good Topic by the way~

Originally posted by Son of Will
I agree. And I'd like to make a slightly depressing suggestion - even though the ATS motto is "deny ignorance", the truth is, this community is no more or less enlightened than most other groups. It's a cultural niche, certainly, in that we all tend to find 'fringe' topics interesting. But when it comes to increased awareness, independent thought and action, we are not special, generally speaking.

And that's why you find the depressing behavior that you outlined in the OP - because this place mirrors society as a whole in some very undesirable ways.

being a member of ATS for some time, the term "low-information poster" is becoming more of a trend. i have not started a thread in a long time, due to my own feeling that something of interest, should be well-researched, as well as written with a degree of skill. i simply do not have the time, nor the patience anymore. i also find a lack of logic or reason in a great many OP's, and are written to indulge the poster in some sort of "gamed hyperbolic emotional response" feedback. the most crass are the ones that belittle serious writers. i, myself, have not been immune to this, and my emotional tirades has cost me points and chastisement, due to answering a completely idiotic statement, with a ( i thought) clever, and biting rebuke.

reply to post by Rubicant13


You've made some good points -- though I'd like to add that your choice of avatar can help too with gaining stars. I did a test awhile ago where I used a silly avatar (Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure movie poster) while commenting in the political forums and was basically ignored. Then I switched over to a more conspiracy minded avatar (some UFO thing) and picked up a few stars here and there. Then I went for a more artist, hardcore looking avatar (Darth Vader as the Pope) and received even more stars. Now, I just use this avatar because I like it -- and I think Clint Eastwood would have made an awesome general.

My point is while it's very important you produce quality posts an ATS, your choice of avatar will influence people too. (Watch as I get no stars).

I totally agree with you.
and when I read a post, I Dont read the name !
you should never base your opinion on the fame of the person who post's it.

But ATS IS propaganda base't like ever thing else.
think about this when you read posts. but it is subtle.
not like you get in the press and news.

Very good thread rubicant13, and very intelligently said .

I don't have much to add, that hasn't been already said by other posters, and much more eloquently than I could have.

I think its pretty apparent that there are "popular" members that get much more attention, via stars and flags.

These members have had great threads, as well as posts, but it is clear some get starred for just about anything they post.

I don't think you have to worry about people flagging and starring you in this thread for any other reason than the fact that it was spot on , full of insight, and well written.

Edit:..had to add that I wasn't implying you weren't popular.. . How can such a sexy intelligent guy who is also hilarious in chat NOT be popular.

S+F OP

I've thought about this myself. The more "established" members tend to get more stars/flags and it kind of does seem unfair but at the same time they do earn respect for all their time and contribution here. There are also people here who just seem to be controversial just to earn stars/flags and I try to avoid/ignore them whenever possible. But at the same time, if I agree with what they say I will star them, even if I disagree with their stance in another thread/topic.

I don't make a lot of threads/posts because I try to read the whole thread to see both sides before commenting myself, unless I feel the need to address a certain issue. I don't know about anybody else, but I remember from Sunday school the teacher always said "God gave you 1 mouth and 2 ears so you can listen twice as much as you speak." I try to make every post count in some way/shape/or form.

reply to post by Rubicant13


To me the overall popularity of a given thread does not wholly depend on its content, but rather its location on the board.
ATS has undergone many changes to its website, and navigation can be a bit tricky at times for those of us who were just getting used to the old format.
I would tend to think that well over half of the general members/lurkers only read what is on the top threads list for the day and go no further about the forums. And this makes it especially undermining sometimes as the top threads seem to be self selective, regardless of their content. That is (to me) how so many useless threads get too much attention.

Everyone that has posted a reply in this thread has had some very valid points and some that I had not thought about myself before writing it. Definitely a lot of intelligent people on here. Very good to see.

Could we also include the "Follow the leader paradigm", in which some of the more popular posters recieve intial stars and or flags, the more likely it will attract additional stars from other members who dont neccesarily support/understand the post?

ontopic: hah cool thread im new too.
i made some of the observation you're wrinting too, or better i felt that way how you described it

--- this is maybe offtopic but talking about new members and old members, the headline of ats "deny ignorance"
its all nice and a good sentence to let the ppl think before they write, but it doesnt mean anything no more.
everyone is accusing everyone to be ignorance, so its kinda lost his message.

If you would create an name-mode, who gives every member every two weeks a new name, nobody would check the names anymore and just would rate the person on his input ( so that was the complicate way)

or everything is just anonymous, but on the other hand this would be to unfriendly names gives a nice touch


and the last one, just disable the achievements

besides all this i still like ats very much, alot of different ppl with different way of thinking

I am one of the emotards who gets caught in ban waves on other forums,
but although this site seems realllllllly neat,
I've also noticed the lack of interest in topics where theory outweighs actual application,
err, rather, if the idea has not been demonstrated and they can't "see the VID", no one gives a dang.


Is that about close to what you mean? lol

And also there are a lot of people who assume their sources are infallible, and if you post an alternative view, they tend to be fairly cruel about that. Also if you use the wrong term in a technical discussion, even if the OP isn't technically advanced, the other posters are often technogeeks who like to pounce on the uneducated,

Uneducated does not mean stupid! We are watching and learning here, and the arrogant should look out, imo.

Thanks for the uplifting post. Obviously many agree with you.




Perhaps some of us don't communicate well, i.e. Idiot Savants in a Gabbity Gab pond?

reply to post by Jason88


I believe this is a very important aspect in addition to the OP observations. We are very visual beeings and having a nice avatar as well as a visually tasteful design of your posts/thread is gonna attract more attention all other things beeing equal.

Many good points made here so won't reiterate what's already been said/written.
What should surprise myself and many others is that no one has mentioned that there are a few intelligence agencies as others of 'concern' which have staff that work together on this site and star one another to put their posts ahead of the rest and flag each other's threads, to stay ahead of the pack so to say. Now I know this for a fact; not speculation. It should be addressed as there 'are' posters here as well as some mods who know what I speak of though do not speak or Act on the issue for 'fear' of reprisal?

The troller-tramps need help/guidance as any other as they are human beings as well, some with shinier badges, more stripes, prettier feathers, tighter pants, and glossier shoes than another but...... They often need the most help as they have become 'products of the system' and often know not they have become automatons unto another; which no one respects, including themselves. Point is, everyone needs the troooooth where it can be found in such a conditioned/segmented/structured/compartmentalized 'society' they find themselves in. Let's not perpetuate it; K? Deny Ignorance is something we should all strive for otherwise some ignorance goes unchecked and is encouraged to continue. Let's do the Right Thing Here and call a spade a spade when it's clearly a spAde.

I believe the mods should examine the trends of posters whom always seem to 'follow each other around' starring one another's posts. The trend is one's friend if it's examined for what it is. For some reason? this is a known issue though has not been corrected. I have watched the content providers on this site for over 4 years now and the 'players' are well known to myself as well as the staff and some mods. One could examine the posters' IP addresses/various screen names/aliases used and examine a few years data to see who's following who on varous boards, who's starring/flagging who and so on. The data is there for the analyzing though some of this is political as well of which is understood for there is much data mining going on here as well as intelligence gathering for agencies of that concern as well as publishers and journalists looking for a good story or data for their own agenda which is expected.

The obvious trolling teams patting one another on the backs, starring each other's posts in collusion, flagging each others' threads to remain in front of the pack of 'others' should come to an end as I personally know, primarily second hand or not in person, of many very intelligent and gifted content providers that have left this site in the past due to the manipulation/collusion as well as censorship that has gone on in the past.

There is always a better way. I enjoy reading the content of various members here on ats as there are many well informed, creative/intellectual and inquiring minds and seem to keep an adult composure with minimum childesh, insulting commentary and other related foolishness. I could go on though I think I've made my point and it needed to be made and realized for what it was/is. I believe this site has a good structure/good flow/layout and so on. No problems with the site other than the comments above.

Just keeping it real folks.
Fine, don't starry me.
Whaaa! Sniffy-snort.....Wa-wa-wa-Whaaa.....as so on.....

I only give stars to comments that have a cute girl in their side picture.

Whether the real person is female or not is irrelevant. Look at me, I have a female sounding name and I have a picture of a bald dude. Which for the record is actually me... I'm not afraid of government agents!!

Star me if you like bald dudes!

reply to post by Rubicant13


Interesting how 'group think' as a concept can infiltrate even cyber space simply because it is the pathway the brain has been washed into following even though members of the group seldom actually meet each other. An excellent thread and so well written. I wish every ATSers would read it right through.

Cheers,
Totally Unpopular Dancer to a Different Drumbeat Lonely Drifter

SF, I loved this thread! You must be an INFJ as well good friend. I love those who think outside of the box in order to gain a better understanding of the way things work, and how people influence particular instances. Although I can right good, I have always stood and watched from the sidelines because of the extraordinary competetion here at ATS such as yourself. I have always felt that people do swarm around those who are more experienced, but as another poster said I have seen elder members get their butt's handed to them by newbs. When I find the time I would love to create a thread that genreates lots of stars and flags, because I do think that you need to gain some sort of respect before you can be taken seriously, especially by skeptics around these parts. Keep it up the good work, we'll see you around.



reply to post by Rubicant13

Are stars and flags that important? Do they bring rewards, and even credibility upon the poster?

ATS is not some MMRPG where such trivilities are worshipped.

The greatest reward one gets here on ATS is the very opportunity to post what you feel and think FREELY and ANNONYMOUSLY, something that is gradually getting rarer and practically non-existant in some countries today.

Those who can award you are members only, but DO KNOW, there are MANY MANY more whom are not members but do read your post and consider them if found worthy, and that is reward enough, if what you wrote and thought is sincere, honest and came from your heart, to change others or be changed if we are wrong. You...have been heard, know that well.

ATS is site that attracts millions ALL OVER THE WORLD daily. You may not realize it, but it does have an impact upon the world and ourselves. Even a drop of water raises the ocean water level - a truth and a reality.

So please, let go the gripe of 'stars and flags'. It is only an accesory, easily attained by many other means. If awards are what one seeks, MMRPG offers better incentives and even cash for time spent.

But if it is truth, denying ignorances and sharing of views to comprehend a wider picture and world in relation to our daily lives, ATS is the best place for you, where all are equal. Ranks exists not on ATS, only the value of your thoughts which are representative of who you are and your intentions, as a fellow human sharing views with the world, in many different topics offered here.