I must be getting on the socialist partys nerves

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee

There are some good things in this and some clearly silly thing, don't dismiss ideas just because they come from a section of politics you disagree with, there have been on occasion some Conservative and Liberal ideas that I have got behind, because they were good ideas, it doesn't mean I've suddenly turned to the Dark Side :-)

Frankly I dont care what you think, as you are not an American citizen and have no say in the matter anyways.

I do appreciate your input though, thats why I responded and answered some of your questions, hopefully that helps clear up any confusion.

reply to post by polarwarrior

OMG, everything I've always wanted on one list!

Thank-you so much thehoneycomb for letting me know about them, it looks like they have one new member

Ok, but you already live in Australia. Stay there.

Originally posted by Ojeus4Unless
Dear all,

Just for the heads up, since this seems to be socialism against capitalism thread:

General definition of socialism:

A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

General definition of capitalism:

"An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit."

Best regards,
Ojeus

Capitalism vs socialism always reduces to freedom of choice vs one size fits all.

If a person can't make good decisions, that person will be exploited in any system.

"Seek ye first the good things of the mind, and the rest will either be supplied or its loss will not be felt."
Sir Francis Bacon
Read more at www.brainyquote.com...

The ones who have money and power will support which ever ideology or type of government will help them maximize their profits. They are above it all and wll be your friend when it benefits them and they will be your enemy when it doesn't. Getting hung up on socialism and capitalism is not very bright since both systems are corrupted by those who have the power to manipulate things to their selfish means.

If it benefits the rich and powerful for you to have rights/freedoms/wealth then you will have rights/freedoms/wealth. If when their business plan dictates it is time for you to lose some or all of those things ti will happen. At the end of the day it is simply business for them.

We are the only ones who get stuck on ideologies they just profit off them.

which is why they are out enjoying their wealth and we aer sitting here ranting on a forum...

reply to post by thehoneycomb


The Socialist Party's wants don't look to be much different than the Democratic Party's, maybe just taken to the Nth degree. Clearly they are just brothers from different mothers. Very scary!

Not much of a leap from Liberalism to Socialism.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Free birth control for all at the cost of tax payers.
Lowering the voting age to 15
An unrealistic demand to abolish racism, sexism and homophobia
Control of all rental units
End of foreclosures
Community based housing
A national Rail system
End of Interstate system
Federally funded car insurance
Public ownership of airline industry
Full residency for Illegals living here for over 6 months
Rights for prisoners to vote
Greater access to all media
Limits on election donations
Public Financing for political candidates
Free access to attorneys
Abolishment of the death penalty
Government ownership of cable and satellite companies
Public Funding for Newspapers and Magazines
Repeal of Copyright laws
Abolishment of privately owned internet intellectual property
Public ownership of all natural resources
Financial penalties to be imposed on private companies for toxic spills and waste"
Municipal ownership of Energy
A sliding scale that favors low income people
Public control of all agriculture
and way much more....

Huh...sign me up?

My favorite as got to be :

Financial penalties to be imposed on private companies for toxic spills and waste"

Really, how can you be against this, are you mad?
Who's gonna pay for the problems those companies caused? PUBLIC FUNDING?
Why is THIS suddenly OK to use public funding in your vision of reality?

Believe me or not, capitalism isn't the way to pave humanity a road towards evolution, space traveling and immortality. If you remove the fear and usual consequence of total domination of abusive power and greed by the leaders, communism is actually a very efficient economic system.

Nothing is ever only dark or only light.

I want my federal government to focus on the here and now, fix the economy and get everyone working. Screw green agendas (Solyndra) and tree-hugging and other social conundrums like gay marriage and anti gun crusades (fast and furious). Those can be extra credit issues to tackle in the future once the ship is heading full steam ahead with no leaks; shouldn't be handled at the fed level anyway. Right now we're about half-submerged and you want to stop and worry about the environment? That's what I call mad!

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
I have questions for the ATS community about this.

After seeing this, are you ok with the way the teachers unions have infiltrated our education system?
Are we going to continue to send our kids off to school hoping everythings gonna be ok?
Are we still cool with the LGBTQ gay marriage agenda?
Are there alot of these things on this site that drive us mad every day that we are going to just put up or shut up and keep living our lives like it doesnt bother us?

Theres way many more questions I have for all of you. But that would take pages and pages of stuff.

Also, sorry gay people, dont mean to pick on you.

edit on 10-10-2012 by thehoneycomb because: (no reason given)

I don't see a problem with teachers unions. In most systems teachers are underpaid, and have to deal with terrible parents calling to complain about their kid's poor grades at 8:00 at night, etc., crazed administrators... The list goes on. All for about the same pay as the mailman.

If we're not "cool" the the gay marriage agenda, then we should leave the U.S., and go to a nation who supports social control by the government to fit a particular group's agenda. Saudi Arabia and Iran come to mind as possible destinations for people with such anti-American thinking. How anyone who wants the government to decide how people live their lives dares to call themselvves "conservative" is beyond my comprehension (or maybe they're just thoroughly confused about the idea of keeping the government out of people's personal lives being a key part of being Conservative.

reply to post by thehoneycomb


To the OP, I'm not sure I understand the premise of your thread. Are you saying because ofba post you made on ATS they changed their website? There seems to be some information missing, which seems to be why this thread is nothing more than a discussion of Socialism as opposed to how the socialist party website was changed because you were getting on their nerves.

Originally posted by dogstar23
How anyone who wants the government to decide how people live their lives dares to call themselvves "conservative" is beyond my comprehension (or maybe they're just thoroughly confused about the idea of keeping the government out of people's personal lives being a key part of being Conservative.

Well that's the deal about conservatives, they don't want no one messing with whatever they do even if it would be wrong for the majority but think that regulating, who people sleep with, is something to make laws about even if it will never influence them in any direct way.

That's the left and right paradigm, both feel the other side is stupid and clueless in particular issues.

I have to say that while I do not consider myself socialist, with some caveats (which are in parenthesis)...

Increased Section 8 housing (for those who truly need it and if the alternative is homelessness)
Greater access to all media (provided we're talking about public information information and unbiased news)
Limits on election donations (for corporate interests and lobbying firms or anyone/anything else that constitutes a conflict of interest)
Free access to attorneys (provided people are sufficiently low income that they cannot secure representation for themselves)
Abolishment of the death penalty
A sliding scale that favors low income people

... I have no ethical qualms with any of these. In fact, I would support and vote for them. (Though not necessarily for those advocating them.)

Just an opinion. Peace.

Let's see what you've found....

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

Subjects include, sex ed young children including an education on LGBTQ.

I have no problem with this. In a perfect world, parents would be smart enough to teach their kids not to hate other people for frivolous reasons like the person's sexual orientation or gender identity. Unfortunately lots of parents are window-licking retards, and still think these are suitable grounds for hating/discriminating against people. So it falls to the rest of society to pick up their slack, sadly.

Free birth control for all at the cost of tax payers.

This is fine. I mean, what do you want? More humans on my planet? I don't.

Labor Unions for prisoners.

Here I'm with you. This is a ridiculous idea.

Destruction of Capitalism and the Constitutional Republic of the United States

I'm going to need details.

Exploitation and special privileges for minoritys

Specifics, please. What do minorities get that you're not allowed to have, in particular?

Exploitation and special privileges for women and children

See above.

Mandatory allowances for children

If true, yes this is crap.

Abolition of Parental consent

Consent for what?

Lowering the voting age to 15

I doubt any serious political party would suggest this.

An unrealistic demand to abolish racism, sexism and homophobia

Okay.

Increased Section 8 housing

Yeah this is awful. We should just let all the homeless people die of exposure. That'll fix the problem.

Control of all rental units

New York seems to be doing okay.

End of foreclosures

Details, please.

Community based housing

As opposed to hermit-based housing? What the living # are you on about?

A national Rail system

How is this a problem? Lincoln didn't seem to be opposed, seeing as how his administration build a national rail system.

End of Interstate system

Please prove this one.

Federally funded car insurance

I'd be okay with this.

Public ownership of airline industry

I'd be okay with this, too. At least let me vote for the bastards who keep losing my luggage.

Full residency for Illegals living here for over 6 months

Residency != citizenship. News flash: They're already residing here.

Rights for prisoners to vote

Depends on the crime, I'd say.

Greater access to all media

Is this bad? The more information you have access to, the less likely you are to end up being an ignorant Teabilly hick. Sounds like a win-win, to me.

Limits on election donations

This is fine with me. Let the corporations have as much say in every election as any anyone else.

Public Financing for political candidates

We already have this, but yeah I'm fine with it.

Free access to attorneys

Aside from a spike in the number of scumsucking lawyers, this won't produce anything bad.

Closures of supermax prisons

Totally evil. Why shouldn't we have enormous prisons full of pissed off people crammed like sardines into spaces meant for half as many of them? Yeah the way we run things now is probably fine. Let's just go back to sleep, nothing could possibly go wrong.

Abolishment of the death penalty

Iran and the rest of the 3rd world completely agree with you on this.

Destruction of media outlets

Wait. If we destroy all the media, how will people have more access to it? I don't understand.

Government ownership of cable and satellite companies

As long as they don't own the content, this is fine. I don't care which empty suit is in charge of shuffling the paperwork.

Public Funding for Newspapers and Magazines

Meh. You're kind of sounding like a broken record at this point.


Continued next post....

Repeal of Copyright laws

Throw in the patent system while you're at it and I'll vote for these guys all day long.

Abolishment of privately owned internet intellectual property

Yes, please. Give me more tho. This isn't radical enough.

Complete control of the internet

If by "complete control" you mean Net Neutrality legislation, only a complete stooge would oppose this.

Public ownership of all natural resources

This is a good idea. Natural resources should belong to US. Not to whichever douchebag lands the biggest bank loan.

Financial penalties to be imposed on private companies for toxic spills and waste

Already happens, and it should happen every time. Why are you opposed to this? Jesus Christ.

Municipal ownership of Energy

Good idea.

A sliding scale that favors low income people

Sliding scale for what? Taxes? We already have this, and it's the only way to go. I mean, unless you're a complete dick. Are you a complete dick?

Public control of all agriculture

Yes. Good. More.


Jesus you people are awful.

because capitalism is so much better lol. a healthy mix of both would be ideal but id prefer the lesser of the two evils.

what is happening now financially throughout the world is thanks to capitalism spiralling out of control. the way america is slowly dropping to its knees u will soon need a bit a social unity or u may never recover!

are you referring to the democratic party?

whichever party, america is completely fked anyway. just reading posts on this forum, u can tell how much fear has been ingrained into americans, if not they're dumb instead.

why do people think hitler and the nazis were socialists> they were sick occulist evil bastards who used socialism to get all the people on their side

I don't understand. How could socialists be bad? How can educating small children about sex be bad? It's clearly working well now. Kevin Jennings been such a great educator when it comes to this subject, that now children that practice fisting know how to do it safely. He's probably saved many lives. How could that be bad?

Originally posted by MagnificentTongue
I don't understand. How could socialists be bad? How can educating small children about sex be bad? It's clearly working well now. Kevin Jennings been such a great educator when it comes to this subject, that now children that practice fisting know how to do it safely. He's probably saved many lives. How could that be bad?

This kind of outright exaggeration is exactly why "Conservatives" aren't taken seriously by anyone. No one is teaching young children how to perform actual sex acts, and no one is proposing we do this. Conservatives know this of course, but if they don't twist the argument to ridiculous extremes, they won't have an argument at all. "Sex Ed" for young children is more or less limited to inoculating them against the crude and medieval prejudices of their parents, and teaching them that things like sexual orientation and gender identity actually exist in a spectrum and not in binary "black/white" or "right/wrong."

What's "wrong" with it is that many people insist on teaching the next generation to continue their destructive and hurtful prejudices, even (and sometimes especially) when those lead to disrupting social order and mutual respect. Society has not only a right, but an obligation, to defend itself against such awful hatred and backward thinking by correcting malevolent instruction learned from idiot parents.

reply to post by vexati0n


Oh, ok. So it's the government that knows best. Why do we even raise our children anymore? The government is so much better at it than parents are. We should just give our children to the government.

Also, if you did any research at all, you would know that Kevin Jennings' disciples taught kids as young as the 3rd grade about fisting. Don't you think that may be an irresponsible thing to do, given that kids are monkey-see, monkey-do?

Lastly, how is it that any and all sexual acts are now considered A-OK? The propaganda is telling us that anyway...
Is the argument that if the sexual deviation (notice I didn't say deviance) exists in nature, it's ok for us too?

Originally posted by MagnificentTongue
reply to post by vexati0n

 

Oh, ok. So it's the government that knows best. Why do we even raise our children anymore? The government is so much better at it than parents are. We should just give our children to the government.

Also, if you did any research at all, you would know that Kevin Jennings' disciples taught kids as young as the 3rd grade about fisting. Don't you think that may be an irresponsible thing to do, given that kids are monkey-see, monkey-do?

Lastly, how is it that any and all sexual acts are now considered A-OK? The propaganda is telling us that anyway...
Is the argument that if the sexual deviation (notice I didn't say deviance) exists in nature, it's ok for us too?

"The Government" is of the people, by the people, and for the people. It isn't some alien parasite that floated down from outer space and rules without any responsibility. You do know what Democracy is, right? So in that the government is the People, yes it knows best. It's just an agency we have organized among ourselves to oversee our own society.

I don't agree with Kevin Jennings' approach -- although it should be noticed it included teenagers, not "3rd Graders." His philosophy of eliminating prejudice and bullying based on sexual orientation is completely commendable, though.

All consensual sex acts between adults are A-OK, yes. If nobody's getting hurt and nobody's a child, then just shut your puritanical mouth and live and let live. You are not allowed to dictate to anyone else who or what they are allowed to do in the privacy of their own lives. Nobody's making you do it, so it's none of your business.