I must be getting on the socialist partys nerves

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posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


So there is a Socialist party and by your POV it has an extreme platform, and they support OWS. So what? The US is a free country, so if a political party wants to have a platform to this end, that is its business. As for your claim in your linked ATS thread that this party is behind OWS, this is a load of scat. Yes, the party evidently supports OWS, but that doesn't mean it is the power behind this movement. There are/were likely many groups that supported OWS. There were businesses handing out food to the demonstrators; does that mean said restaurants were "behind" OWS -- as in running it and being in charge of it?

There's likely a US National Socialist party, aka the Nazi party; so what? It doesn't have a very big power base either.

So what's with your paranoid post, anyway? There's lots of small political parties in the US, are you going to write a rant post about each one?




posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Reminds me of this



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


Actually there are both and quite a number of variants.


~Heff



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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edit on 10-10-2012 by neo96 because: nevermind the letters from my post were redistributed to the more needy



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


I feel the same way. I have posted and linked and exposed and the Progressives here just say, "oh you don't know what socialism is".




posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Socialism is...agree with me or else you are a racist homophobic fascist neocon murdering tyrant.

speaking of which I think king obama has hacked neos account, could somebody check on him and make sure hes ok?

edit on 10-10-2012 by thehoneycomb because: spell checkers dont agree with me either



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


So there is a Socialist party and by your POV it has an extreme platform, and they support OWS. So what? The US is a free country, so if a political party wants to have a platform to this end, that is its business. As for your claim in your linked ATS thread that this party is behind OWS, this is a load of scat. Yes, the party evidently supports OWS, but that doesn't mean it is the power behind this movement. There are/were likely many groups that supported OWS. There were businesses handing out food to the demonstrators; does that mean said restaurants were "behind" OWS -- as in running it and being in charge of it?

There's likely a US National Socialist party, aka the Nazi party; so what? It doesn't have a very big power base either.

So what's with your paranoid post, anyway? There's lots of small political parties in the US, are you going to write a rant post about each one?



yes and the CPUSA, Nancy Pelosi(DSA), the Nazi Party, anti corporate Adbusters(which has communist sympathizers and organized OWS), Code Pink(as left as it gets), Ms Piven(who attended an OWS rally, and many more leftist organizations support OWS.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


Not sure what your point of mentioning these other parties is. Is it that they're extreme "leftist" and - gasp!- supported OWS and perhaps helped organize some OWS events?

If you call one of these groups a communist sympathizer, what do you call the US government and US businesses that have done business with communist China since the Tiananmen Square massacre? If you have a iPad or iPhone -- both of which are made in China -- you have also supported communist China. And the fact that China has bought over a trillion in US Treasury notes shows that Communist China supports the US. So if you hate/fear communists, then you'd better hate/fear the Republican AND Democratic parties, the US Chamber of Commerce and the United States in general. Just want to be sure that you are being consistent in your political views.

On a similar note, the US supported the Mujahadeen against the Soviets, i.e. the commies, and part of the Mujahadeen became the Taliban and Al Queda, so what's worse in your view a communist sympathizer or a proto-Taliban supporter?

As an aside, I have to say I am in awe of your member stats. Although you have been a member about 7 months less than myself, you have over 30 times as many posts and stars as me -- in a word: wow.
edit on 11-10-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:29 AM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


Actually hate and despise teacher's unions; but that's based on the Alabama education system; worst education system in the US. Here in Washington state, I'm happy with the eduction system and wouldn't begrudge them a raise.

Unless you are into home schooling or are a part of the 1% I don't see a viable alternative for public school.

Yep, still cool with the LGBTQ gay marriage; I have an adult child with gender identity disorder; and having been a paratrooper for twenty years I can honestly say that if I can accept it, so can the rest of you bigots.

I fight against ignorance every day of my life; but I respect the rights of others to express their opinions. If you don't believe in free speech for those you disagree with, you don't believe in free speech.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by Rastus3663
 


fine by me.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


Don't know where you are getting your information on undocumented blacks, but in the days of slavery, in Alabama, the free blacks were pretty well documented. That's because if you freed a slave, you had to post a $250 bond. Ironically, because of this, the second largest group of slave owners were black males. That's because they could not afford to post bonds for their family members.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 02:58 AM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by thehoneycomb
 


I feel the same way. I have posted and linked and exposed and the Progressives here just say, "oh you don't know what socialism is".



Well, please do elucidate us as to what socialism is then.

Let me help you:

Socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

How has Obama done anything socialism like? Yes, he bailed out banks and auto companies with loans or cheesy stock purchases (not that I necessarily approved of them), but has he used these actions to put the control of production and distribution of capital and land, etc. into the community as a whole? No. What are government pensions and Social Security funds invested in? Businesses. What's the difference? Not much.

As for Obamacare, it is more fascism than anything else, i.e. the wedding of the state to industry/business, by forcing Americans to buy health insurance from private corporations. I'm not for Obamacare; I'm for a universal health care system that would cut out the health insurance and health care corporation middlemen.

Frankly, however, I'm be for some level of socialism in this country, in particular the nationalization of all the oil and mineral companies, so that the American people would be the beneficiaries of the nation's natural resources and so better protection of workers rights and the environment could be maintained. Another industry that should be nationalized is the nuclear energy industry. As is, the government has to underwrite loans to make any nuclear plants economically feasible and should there be a disastrous accident, it is going to be the government, i.e. the people, who have to pick of the bill for the clean-up because it will be beyond the financial resources of any company to do so. The same is the case with these offshore oil spills too. So socialism doesn't sound too bad to me.

You do realize we have a socialized postal service, socialized defense forces, socialized educational systems, socialized police forces, and socialized fire departments and emergency services, don't you? So if you are against socialism, you are against the US armed forces. Are you against the US armed forces? No? Really? Then you are for socialism. And clearly there are differing levels of socialism. I'm not for the corner store or bar being run by the government, but some things should be.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by MrInquisitive
 


Or the government ownership of production and no private property.

I already posted the definition earlier in the thread.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Subjects include, sex ed young children including an education on LGBTQ.


All children should be taught about sex, I'm not syaing they should learn about the mechanics of it at five years old, but if we as adults have a muture approach to teaching children about reproduction, and relationships then perhaps they may grow up to respect one another, and see sex the way it should be seen as something perfectly natural, not dirty and seedy, as 2000 of Judeo/Christian nonesense has taught us, education and understanding breeds tollerence, ignorance leads to fear and hatred, don't mean to sound like Yoda.


Free birth control for all at the cost of tax payers.


Equiping teenagers with contraception is a good thing, and all people for that matter, they are going to have sex, giving them protection from STIs and unwanted pregnancy will cost the tax payer less, less single mothers. Unfortunately Teenagers are sexually active before they can think responsibly, it makes sense to arm them with the facts and protection they may need, we as adults have that responsibility


Labor Unions for prisoners.


This I don't agree with.


Destruction of Capitalism and the Constitutional Republic of the United States


The Federal reserve and the US Government is currently trying to destroy Capitalism and the Constitutional US, don't go blaming that on us Socialists, you don't need any help from us there.


Exploitation and special privileges for minoritys


This is not socialism, everyone is equal under socialism, or is meant to be, this makes no sense at all


Exploitation and special privileges for women and children


Niether does this


Mandatory allowances for children


In the UK we have child benefit, everyone is entitled to it, can't see any problem with this.


Abolition of Parental consent


this is a bit vague, consent for what? Until a child is an adult, parents are in charge, this is a rather silly statement



Lowering the voting age to 15


Engaging teenagers in politics is a good thing, they aren't jaded at that age, however, the voting age should stay at 18, in saying that though, in the UK you can get married at 16, have sex, and join the army, so you are old enough to have sex, take a partner for life and kill and die for you country, but not old enough to drive, drink and vote for who you want to send, you kill and die for your country,


An unrealistic demand to abolish racism, sexism and homophobia


Why is that unrealistic? Education and understanding of different cultures and lifestyles, can only enrich your life, living in fear of them just makes you into a bigot, personally the people who would have a problem with this are probably racist, homophobic a sexist anyway, and aren't worth bothering with.


Increased Section 8 housing


I don't know what section 8 housing is


Control of all rental units


I wouldn't say control, but regulation, so you don't get vile slumlords exploiting tennents


End of foreclosures


Again I don't see a problem with this


Community based housing


Surely all housing and nieghbourhoods, should be based on community spirit, surely?


A national Rail system


Britain once had a Nationalised Rail network, it wasn't great, however now it's privatised it's a joke. France has a very Nationalised Railway.


End of Interstate system


No idea what this means


Federally funded car insurance


This could work like our national insurance, where you pay a fee from your wages, ensuring the low paid are insured, uninsured drivers are a menace and give insurance companies the excuse to put up premiums.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Public ownership of airline industry


I wouldn't say full ownership, but perhaps a chance for the public sector to own a small stake??


Full residency for Illegals living here for over 6 months


Immigration is always a sensitive issue, if a person can prove they are willing to contribute, and work hard, I see no problem with this, however if they are not and are just after a free ride, then they should go home


Rights for prisoners to vote


We recently had this debate in the UK and even the Socialists disagreed with this, you are in prison, you are being punished by society, therefore you have no say in society.



Greater access to all media


I don't see a problem with this



Limits on election donations


A lot of things I see on here from Americans is how much money is spent on election campaigns and how disgusting it is, surely if you take some of the money out of Politics you may get a slightly better breed of politician, here's hoping :-)



Public Financing for political candidates


This wouldn't be a bad idea, candidates would only have a certain amount of cash to campaign with, and it's your money, they would be constantly reminded of this, it would empower the voter more, so they would have to be clever with their campaigns unlike they are now,


Free access to attorneys


Everyone hits hards times at some point, and if we need a legal professional to help us, as we all have the right to due process, surely we should have that help. It doesn't mean the end of private Lawyers, lawyers make tons of cash anyway



Closures of supermax prisons


Forgive my ignorance I don't know what these are


Abolishment of the death penalty


The death penalty is Government sanctioned murder, it is not justice, only the absence and failure of Justice


Destruction of media outlets


That doesn't make sense, because they were just advocating more access to Media???? Silly idea anyway


Government ownership of cable and satellite companies


I see no reason why there can't be a Public television service to run parallel with the all the Independent ones, everytime there is an American celeb on the BBC they love it, because they swear there ar$e off :-)


Public Funding for Newspapers and Magazines


Again it's a ballance, between public an private, no-one wants to see Murdoch owning everything, and no-one wants to see the government owning everything, but I think there is room for a public newspapers and magazine to run parallel with private titles, it would boost jobs, may actually make money if they are any good, and possibly restore some Journalistic integrity to the profession.


Repeal of Copyright laws


Don't agree with this


Abolishment of privately owned internet intellectual property


Don't agree with either, not all property is theft


Complete control of the internet


This is just silly and unworkable and frankly wrong


Public ownership of all natural resources


In a way we should own our resources because they are ours, and we should decide what is done with them


Financial penalties to be imposed on private companies for toxic spills and waste


Well of course they should be fined, if you tipped your rubbish out in the park would you not expect to be fined for it?? It's a no brainer.


Municipal ownership of Energy


Again it could run in tandem with the private sector, and could possibly generate revenue.


A sliding scale that favors low income people


Low income people should be helped, humanity should make it's goals to abolish poverty hunger and disease, instead of argueing over scraps, there is enough money out there to do this, it's just the few at the top who control it all want to keep it so they pit us against each other so we don't see them stealing from us all everyday.


Public control of all agriculture


Same answer as the one before last, Again it could run in tandem with the private sector, and could possibly generate revenue.

There are some good things in this and some clearly silly thing, don't dismiss ideas just because they come from a section of politics you disagree with, there have been on occasion some Conservative and Liberal ideas that I have got behind, because they were good ideas, it doesn't mean I've suddenly turned to the Dark Side :-)

Peace Dude



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Subjects include, sex ed young children including an education on LGBTQ.
Free birth control for all at the cost of tax payers.
Labor Unions for prisoners.
Destruction of Capitalism and the Constitutional Republic of the United States
Exploitation and special privileges for minoritys
Exploitation and special privileges for women and children
Mandatory allowances for children
Abolition of Parental consent
Lowering the voting age to 15
An unrealistic demand to abolish racism, sexism and homophobia
Increased Section 8 housing
Control of all rental units
End of foreclosures
Community based housing
A national Rail system
End of Interstate system
Federally funded car insurance
Public ownership of airline industry
Full residency for Illegals living here for over 6 months
Rights for prisoners to vote
Greater access to all media
Limits on election donations
Public Financing for political candidates
Free access to attorneys
Closures of supermax prisons
Abolishment of the death penalty
Destruction of media outlets
Government ownership of cable and satellite companies
Public Funding for Newspapers and Magazines
Repeal of Copyright laws
Abolishment of privately owned internet intellectual property
Complete control of the internet
Public ownership of all natural resources
Financial penalties to be imposed on private companies for toxic spills and waste
Municipal ownership of Energy
A sliding scale that favors low income people
Public control of all agriculture
and way much more....


OMG, everything I've always wanted on one list!

Thank-you so much thehoneycomb for letting me know about them, it looks like they have one new member



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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I am not certain as to what the current Communist party's doctrines represent, but I can tell you that from reading Marx and Engels I would openly welcome this type of government and economic system, if it were implemented correctly. Their doctrine states that Socialism is a later form of Communism, where government has been abolished. Today it seems that Socialism is used in a different manner entirely. The problem with modern day Communism is that it has been corrupted by governments who do not adhere to the strict rules laid out in the Manifesto of the Communist Party. The simple idea of seeing capitalism for what it really is is astounding in my opinion, and a capitalistic system WILL collapse. It can only be held together for so long.

The main problem with a Communistic system is that people are corrupt. If a staged could be reached where the people could collectively govern themselves, without needing officials of government watching over them, this system would be optimal, and this is theoretically what Socialism, in its truest sense, actually is. Public justice would be much fairer than a corrupt legal system, but it would also be much swifter, with harsher punishments. This is needed in this type of society, as breaking the rules has such dire consequences in terms of going against what the doctrine stands for.

Anyone can label these forms of an economy/government as anything they wish, but it would do this person well to actually research what these systems represent in their truest and purest forms, because there is much propaganda to be had, especially in the West given the history of Communist countries and their clashes with the West. Communism, in the sense of say the USSR and China, is the scourge it was made out to be, but I stress that this is not what the system represents. Those forms of government and of economy are not and were not Communist or Socialist, in the academic sense, from what I have personally read and understand.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Rastus3663
 


Oh yes, I am aware of that, but thanks for bringing that up.

But honestly the whole slavery thing and civil war is a bit confusing to me. I guess thats because I went through high school in the 90's and was taught the revisionist version of American history. You know, like the white people came and enslaved everyone and became slave owners in the south who whipped all of their slaves.

Do you have any recommendations for books I could read that are less biased and more truthful about what things were really like, both good and bad?



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee
 





All children should be taught about sex, I'm not syaing they should learn about the mechanics of it at five years old, but if we as adults have a muture approach to teaching children about reproduction, and relationships then perhaps they may grow up to respect one another, and see sex the way it should be seen as something perfectly natural, not dirty and seedy, as 2000 of Judeo/Christian nonesense has taught us, education and understanding breeds tollerence, ignorance leads to fear and hatred, don't mean to sound like Yoda.


We are taught about sex, in elementary school. We are taught about the anatomy and different functions of different parts and the act of sex itself, the terms of pregnancy, what to expect, pros and cons, genetics and genetic make up, chromosomes, what makes a boy a boy and girl a girl etc, genetic traits and dominant and in dominant genes, birth control, abstinence etc. It does not get more straight forward than that.

What they want to add to the curriculum is education about LGBTQ and tolerance etc. I have no problem with the tolerance part, but I think it reaches to far at a young age. Most students at that age have not began to realize their attraction to the opposite sex, gone through puberty or anything like that. I think the LGBTQ should be left out all together and not expanded upon because the implications could drive the outcomes for young impressionable children.




Equiping teenagers with contraception is a good thing, and all people for that matter, they are going to have sex, giving them protection from STIs and unwanted pregnancy will cost the tax payer less, less single mothers. Unfortunately Teenagers are sexually active before they can think responsibly, it makes sense to arm them with the facts and protection they may need, we as adults have that responsibility


I dont have a problem with birth control. Except many types of female birth control can be very harmful to the female reproductive system

I have a problem with it being free because it comes at expense of the tax payer.

Another part of this issue that I accidentally left out is that they also want free abortions during any term of pregnancy at the expense of the tax payer. This reaches into the obamacare stuff. But anyways I have a major problem with this more so than the birth control.




The Federal reserve and the US Government is currently trying to destroy Capitalism and the Constitutional US, don't go blaming that on us Socialists, you don't need any help from us there.


marxist and socialist political figures created that system





Exploitation and special privileges for minoritys


This is not socialism, everyone is equal under socialism, or is meant to be, this makes no sense at all


Not quite, the only group exclusively entitled to the minority status in America is blacks according to the way the census data classifies minorities. America is the melting pot of all nationalists and race, there are no such things as minorities this day and age, we have everything and one group does not outweigh another. Blacks are largely on the government dole, because the census data is geared as such.





Exploitation and special privileges for women and children


Niether does this


This is explained above and will below, see abolition of parental rights, abortions etc.





Mandatory allowances for children


In the UK we have child benefit, everyone is entitled to it, can't see any problem with this.


I dont know what that is, but in America, parents can raise their children any way they want. It is not up to the state to decide how parents should parent.





Abolition of Parental consent

this is a bit vague, consent for what? Until a child is an adult, parents are in charge, this is a rather silly statement


Birth control, sex, abortion, school field trips and social programs, curfews, boyfriends, sleep overs at friends and early every aspect of parents raising their children.





An unrealistic demand to abolish racism, sexism and homophobia


Why is that unrealistic? Education and understanding of different cultures and lifestyles, can only enrich your life, living in fear of them just makes you into a bigot, personally the people who would have a problem with this are probably racist, homophobic a sexist anyway, and aren't worth bothering with.


You can not abolish human thought, emotion, intellect.

We live in America, not George Orwells 1984 or the minority report. There is no such thing as a thought crime here. It is all protected under our first amendment right to freedom of speech.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee
 





I don't know what section 8 housing is


It is affordable housing and in some cases free for welfare recipients at the expense of the American taxpayer.





Control of all rental units


I wouldn't say control, but regulation, so you don't get vile slumlords exploiting tennents


We already have that.





End of foreclosures


Again I don't see a problem with this


Because nothing is free, somebody has to pay for it, one way or another.





Community based housing


Surely all housing and nieghbourhoods, should be based on community spirit, surely?



I dont know, ask the survivors of the holocaust or the bolsheviks.





A national Rail system


Britain once had a Nationalised Rail network, it wasn't great, however now it's privatised it's a joke. France has a very Nationalised Railway.


End of Interstate system


No idea what this means


Our interstates federal highways that connect cities together, America is a travel based economy. They want to restrict our constitutional right to travel and force us into the rail system as mentioned above in a way that controls, regulates and restricts travel.

Ever heard of Nazi Germany?





Federally funded car insurance


This could work like our national insurance, where you pay a fee from your wages, ensuring the low paid are insured, uninsured drivers are a menace and give insurance companies the excuse to put up premiums.




Unconstitutional.





Originally posted by thehoneycomb
Public ownership of airline industry


I wouldn't say full ownership, but perhaps a chance for the public sector to own a small stake??



Currently, airlines are privately owned. This implies huge problems and a basic theft or takeover of the airline industry.





Greater access to all media


I don't see a problem with this


This implies greater access for the government to the media, not the people to the media. What this implies is that dissent would not be tolerated and would be censored. Basically the media would become the governments mouth piece.





Free access to attorneys


Everyone hits hards times at some point, and if we need a legal professional to help us, as we all have the right to due process, surely we should have that help. It doesn't mean the end of private Lawyers, lawyers make tons of cash anyway


We already have this and a constitutional right to appoint a public defender. What this implies is a takeover of all private lawyers and complete regulation over the law industry.





Closures of supermax prisons


Forgive my ignorance I don't know what these are


These are the high security prisons where they put mass murderers and the upper echelon of prisoners with security risks.





Abolishment of the death penalty


The death penalty is Government sanctioned murder, it is not justice, only the absence and failure of Justice


In the cases of mass murder, it is much more reasonable to have them put to death, then have the tax payers pay to feed them and house them til the day they die.





Government ownership of cable and satellite companies


I see no reason why there can't be a Public television service to run parallel with the all the Independent ones, everytime there is an American celeb on the BBC they love it, because they swear there ar$e off :-)


It says government ownership. Basically a monopoly and complete control. Please see my comments about dissent and freedom of speech above.





Public Funding for Newspapers and Magazines


Again it's a ballance, between public an private, no-one wants to see Murdoch owning everything, and no-one wants to see the government owning everything, but I think there is room for a public newspapers and magazine to run parallel with private titles, it would boost jobs, may actually make money if they are any good, and possibly restore some Journalistic integrity to the profession.


Yeah right, see above.





A sliding scale that favors low income people


Low income people should be helped, humanity should make it's goals to abolish poverty hunger and disease, instead of argueing over scraps, there is enough money out there to do this, it's just the few at the top who control it all want to keep it so they pit us against each other so we don't see them stealing from us all everyday.


Good idea in theory, but in reality it doesnt work.





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