Taliban shoot female rights activist teenager

Originally posted by purplemer
dang and to think the US trained them, gave them weapons and supported them....

Misleading title. They didn't kill her, she had an operation and recovered from the bullet wound.

Check your source she was not killed, she is in stable condition after being shot in the head.

reply to post by Sablicious


Don't judge the entire religion by the actions of the zealots.

Originally posted by DOLCOTT
Check your source she was not killed, she is in stable condition after being shot in the head.

Read the thread and you will know this has already been addressed.

And the time allotted to edit the post had past.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
What a horrible story. She works hard for what she thinks is right....they don't like it...so stroll right onto her school bus and shoot her in the head.

God help us if people here ever realize that the only thing stopping such casual brutality from happening in our society is the mutual unwritten agreements that specific lines not be crossed. Such as...shooting kids with reckless abandon right out for God and everyone to watch happen.

If that basic respect and sense of Taboo ever seriously fades or altogether vanishes...I fear Americans are capable of far worse than these other nations experience. I'll sincerely hope Katrina and occasional urban rioting is as close as we ever come to seeing what American versions of this story may look like. I hope, anyway.

Wrabbit, that's probably my most liked post you've ever written. I've read a lot of your posts across the boards and sometimes disagree with you but I am 100% with you on this post.

Look at history, when the moral code breaks down. People are capable of some wicked things when they know there are no consequences for their actions.

Originally posted by VforVendettea
Don't judge the entire religion by the actions of the zealots.

We don't judge every man on what the likes of Charles Manson did, but we do have have laws to remove people of this ilk from society.

The "oh! that's not my brand of Islam!" excuse has long been exhausted.

It dosnt matter what god you worship or how you worship him, the fact is there is NO excuse to shoot anyone, especially a little girl unless its in selfdefence and im thinking this wasnt!!!

no matter how much people say they where brain washed by militants to take there own lives as well as others in gods name they are wrong as god put us ALL here and im thinking the Taliban are scared of this girl, shes intelligent, savy, able to comunicate with the world and make human connections...............all the things they cant.

you didnt even acomplish your task/mission you loosers so she won AGAIN

hope she gets well and continues the fight.

ste

Firstly she was not killed she was operated on and is in a stable condition, From the conspiracy side what a great opportunity to send in special forces, bring her and her family to Britain grant them asylum and use her to put her (and our) ideas to the masses from a 'safe' position. Massive popularity vote and a free microphone for TPTB.
If it happens you heard it here first and want money for the idea government

Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by purplemer
dang and to think the US trained them, gave them weapons and supported them....

That picture is misleading and the title is outright false. No two ways about that by sheer history and timelines. The Taliban did not exist when Ronald Reagan was President. The Afghani's that Reagan was working with toward the end were the Mujahadeen. Some of whom were a faction led by Usama Bin Laden. Most were Afghanis and NOT Bin laden's Arab crew and went on to become the Northern Alliance. Those would be the guys who met us and worked with us in 2001 after 9/11 and who we then helped remove the Taliban from power.

Reagan was supporting the opposition to the Soviet Union's brutal occupation of Afghanistan. The people, events and general timelines are well documented in the book "Charlie Wilson's War" among others...although I can't speak to the movie. I never saw it. I just read the book which confirmed much I'd already read in numerous other reports of how that whole thing happened in the 1980's.

Of course... for some.. it's sexier to imagine Reagan was meeting with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Both would require a time machine and a whole different political world to have accomplished.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Reagan was supporting the opposition to the Soviet Union's brutal occupation of Afghanistan. The people, events

Which is different to what we're doing now... how? Last time I checked, all wars were fought for a 'just cause', from the viewpoint of those making an argument for their involvement.

Moreover, I do also recall stories of the Ruskis building schools for girls during their Afghanistan tenure and subsequently having theses structures blown up by the Neanderthal misogynist locals. Not unlike how the Taliban severe the limbs of the girls caught attending today's Western equivalent institutions.

The Russians are only the "bad guys" through the eyes of those who oppose them. Russia defeated the Germans in WWII and lost the Cold War only because they went broke, not because of some righteous divinity bestowed upon the US. It's all a matter of perspective.

YouTube1
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Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Reagan was supporting the opposition to the Soviet Union's brutal occupation of Afghanistan. The people, events

Which is different to what we're doing now... how? Last time I checked, all wars were fought for a 'just cause', from the viewpoint of those making an argument for their involvement.

Please look into the Russian Occupation of Afghanistan before suggesting there is no difference. The U.S. may be unforgiving and down right ruthless toward the enemy in time of war.....the Russians make us look like cream puffs with a confidence problem.

The U.S. may air strike a village and try awfully hard to get one house and the guy that sparked the strike call in the first place. Russian Hind Pilots were known to simply hover in their flying battleship and casually strafe and shoot up a WHOLE village as if it was a slow day at the office and that was amusement. ...At least until the Stingers came (The CIA does something GOOD for a rare change) and the Hind Pilots came to have the nickname 'Cosmonauts' because they wouldn't come low enough to be engaged anymore.

United States support of the Mujaheddin was one of those rare and happy occasions in history where we did something RIGHT and did something GOOD. It kept the loyalty of the Mujaheddin all the way through 2001 when CIA and Green Berets teams landed almost immediately after 9/11 and went into Northern Afghanistan.

Of course.. We know how that good deed was rewarded by the whims of fate which makes it all the more tragic by how GOOD it all started..and actually DID accomplish. The problem was, when the Soviets left, So did America and the Afghan Civilians were left to the tender mercies of War Lords, Bandits and what would eventually form into the radical fundie Taliban.

History in a nutshell...and VERY well worth reading more about. FEW events display the night/day difference between the Soviet way of thinking and behaving and the American one. Afghanistan in the 1980's made that contrast so clear it almost glows in Neon.

The Taliban are scumbags period.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Please look into the Russian Occupation of Afghanistan before suggesting there is no difference. The U.S. may

I have and of course there are technical differences. But the outcome is the same—i.e., we see dead people ...lot's of 'em.

And so what if the Russians strafed "civs"? You think the West does not? You haven't seen 'Collateral Murder'? What, you're implying the more 'precise' and dissembled methods of extermination we employ is some kind of display of largess? Not merely a product of the instant information age we live in now, where people are much more accountable for their wartime actions, in real time, than they once were? You think war should bring out the best in people?

The fact is, Bin Laden was no reason to go into Iraq or Afghanistan: there were no "WMDs" and Bin Laden was hold up in the US' bestest bummy's crib, Pakistan! Moreover, the thousands of drone sorties that have been incurring Pakistan air space for years are largely viewed [by Arabs / Muslims] as far worse than anything the vodka soused Ruskis did to the goat herding Bacha Bazi brothers in the Afghani mountains. ...of whom not much is thought, even from the other hard line Muslims.

As far as I'm concerned, if the US wanted revenge for 9-11 (assuming a lot in that they didn't orchestrate it themselves) then they should have simply carpet bombed the Taliban into the Bronze... erhm... Stone Age, without warning or fanfare. Instead of declaring "war" this and "righteous" that; allowing these troglodytes with fighting in their DNA to spoil for a conflict they'd already rehearsed for in the 80s and effectively giving credence to the 'Jihad' ideals of the fanatics, in turn, fanaticising a slew of previously non aggressive Muslims. This approach to fundamentalist ideology (read: geo-strategical machinating) by the US is no scalpel to Russia's broadsword, to be sure. It's more like a rusted pitchfork wielded by a drunk yokel.

So, no. I'm sorry. No token, Obama-esque, consolation Nobel Prizes go to the current involvement of the West in the Middle-East. No more (no less) than to Russia's submission two decades earlier.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

well I have heard and seen many schools exploded just because of women are studying there by the hand of Taliban.
and of course women driving ban in Saudi arabia. it is stupidity. really a stupidity. I think this is because there is lack of education. many are killed in Pakistan (I mean those that are not drone killed !) by the hand of radicals for funny excuses and just because of their ideology.
I do not think that a foreign activist that is not familiar with their culture can change anything. social solutions should be emanated from that society.
for example, they claim that they are muslims, true muslims ! some one should ask them to bring their proof that this is the way of their prophet or whatever they believe in ! someone should speak with them with their own beliefs and culture.

Originally posted by Sablicious

"The Pakistani Taliban shot a teenage children's rights activist in the head on her school bus to avenge her campaigns for the right to an education in the militants' former stronghold of Swat."

LINK

Remember the fire bombing of Tokyo? A heinous act, even by current military maven assessments. In Taliban regions however, such tactics might not be viewed so sternly, methinks...

'Religion: The cancer of the uneducated mind'

edit on 10/10/2012 by dbates because: Changed "kill" to "shoot" in title.

Horrible event, it is even more disgusting when people try and use such horrible events to expand and promote their own ideology.

I think Idolism is the cancer of any mind, and in that respect atheists seem to idol the concepts of idolism. I say any, as there are many educated theists who engage in idolism, and a legion of uneducated atheists that engage in idolism.

Either way I really find it loathsome when people use passive aggressive behavior to skirt civil behavior. I suppose in any sociopathic system, direct conflict, or rather direct anything is discouraged. Almost like there is a point system and you get more points for indirect attacks while penalties for direct ones.

The sad reality is that it isn't religion, philosophies or atheist's responsible* for all the bad things in the world: it is neurological types. Could you imagine if some of the atheists who love to go out of their way to attack theists on this forum , were given social sanction to lynch, terrorize and harm theists* in any way they wanted?

It doesn't really leave much to be imagined. They push the limits without any sense of shame as is given how society turns a blind eye to their behavior. And history has recorded in a few communist nations what happens when evil, err I mean sociopathic and psychopathic atheists are allowed to run loose: Ten's if not hundreds of millions of people have been killed by atheists who wanted to purge/lessen religion. Who wanted to cure what they perceived as a "cancer".

Does that mean all atheists are evil? Probably not, but it does seem to imply that from a historical vantage point, certain people will cling to whatever movement will allow them to harm others depending on what they think will be an acceptable platform to attack from.

In the West such people cling to Marxism, Atheism and Feminism; in muslim countries it is no surprise that such people will wrap whatever is acceptable to society around themselves** so they could do what their counter parts elsewhere around th globe do.

A dance of psychopaths and sociopaths. A sickening dance I am sick and tired of seeing as I pour over the Histories to the daily news.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

well I have heard and seen many schools exploded just because of women are studying there by the hand of Taliban.
and of course women driving ban in Saudi arabia. it is stupidity. really a stupidity. I think this is because there is lack of education. many are killed in Pakistan (I mean those that are not drone killed !) by the hand of radicals for funny excuses and just because of their ideology.
I do not think that a foreign activist that is not familiar with their culture can change anything. social solutions should be emanated from that society.
for example, they claim that they are muslims, true muslims ! some one should ask them to bring their proof that this is the way of their prophet or whatever they believe in ! someone should speak with them with their own beliefs and culture.

One thing you have to keep in mind, they aren't us. They don't have our lofty lifestyles. They live in primitive, gender role rigid societies. The "oppression" of woman is total BS once you examine the hefty burden such societies demand of men. Now add in that these schools are often funded by Feminist private organizations, and pushed for by feminist's in Western Government.

What does that mean? That such funding will only go to create schools for girls and women only. From their vantage point it is an ultra raw deal. They take all the risks to keep their communities from starving and the gal's get a free first rate education.

Granted this isn't always the case as some people just like to instigate to cause problems, but if equal funding for education was afforded to the boy's of Afghanistan and Pakistan, I seriously doubt such things would be as common. This is no different then the racial bigotry certain elements in the West forced down the rest of the worlds throat. Instead of "whites first" it is now "Women First". I am not justifying or excusing this horrible attack, it is just that so many people are speaking on something in which they have no true comprehension of the emotions on the ground, what other human beings are experiencing. Personally for the record, I don't care much for muslims, I think they are wrong and that is my prerogative, my perspective.

But we each have our own perspective. And it is so easy to tell ourselves that only our perspective matters or that the sheer weight of other perspectives must drown out or outvalue our own.

Like the perspective of the sheer number of men in Saudi Arabia. People often speak of Saudi women's limitations but completely ignore their gendered privileges. They have the Privilege of not having to worry about finances, starving to death or being homeless compared to that of Saudi men. We need to keep in mind how truly primitive the societies we seek to judge truly are. And how barbaric our ancestors will judge us for our ignorances.

Most people say they don't have the time or interest to* study or appreciate the struggles of our ancestors, yet they comment on it regularly when it suites their political/ideological biases.

Both the men and women, boy's and girls of these societies need help; heck that could be said of humanity as a whole.

Originally posted by korathin
for all the bad things in the world: it is neurological

This "neurological" you speak of, it is something that is not natural, but rather nurtured. Herein lies the problem: parents' indoctrination of their progeny in the the child's formative years.

There needs to be a 'circuit breaker' to this cycle of ideological inculcation from one generation to the next. There is no other way to nullify the intolerance and violence inherent the systems of control we dub 'religions'.

No amount of 'post indoctrinal' education can remove the damage done to a person's brain if they've been reared in a religious environment bent of bending the child to its whim. Just look at any number of examples of clearly educated people committing heinous acts in the name of their particular brand of "faith". It doesn't take a a sub normal IQ to ascribe to the concepts of heaven and hell, and the various avenues proclaimed to lead to these fanciful destinations. All it takes is a vulnerable brain to be polluted by the fear that religion feeds upon.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by kyred
The people of Pakistan must decide if this is okay with them and are they willing to live with such things.

I believe Pakistani authorities condemned the act ... but I can only say this based off radio reporting on my way to work.

The people have to rise up. The women have to make their voice and actions heard. They have to fight this battle from within.

Civil Wars are the worst.

While I believe there is already a thread on this subject, I'm not so sure this is the solution. Islam needs to progress into the 21st century. Radicalism exists as a certain malignancy within this religion (as it does in many, but more so in violent forms within Islam today). We see outrageous acts of injustice committed by extremists every day. A revolt within Pakistan will change nothing. Islam needs to modernize itself, and return to certain principles it once held in which scientific achievements in multiple fields were valued and philosophical differences were at least entertained (and not met with acts of murder). The west could offer a helping hand by stepping out of middle eastern issues to an extent.

Nothing will change in this regard until Muslims decide to bring themselves and their religion into the 21st century. They risk it all if they do not, by starting a terrible war (which their radical imam's look forward to) that could potentially reduce not only their own people and religion, but the entire world to a memory.

It has to start with what is in their hearts (and by extension what they teach their children).

edit on 9-10-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

I fail to see how Islam suddenly comes into this. The girl was Muslim. Her family was Muslim. Her supporters are Muslim. And Islam is the problem because the Taliban attacked her. It's like me robbing a bank and saying it's in the name of God. Would you believe that I really did it for God?

Originally posted by korathin
One thing you have to keep in mind, they aren't us. They don't have our lofty lifestyles. They live in primitive, gender role rigid societies. The "oppression" of woman is total BS once you examine the hefty burden such societies demand of men. Now add in that these schools are often funded by Feminist private organizations, and pushed for by feminist's in Western Government.

yes but I did not mean that women have lofty lifestyles in other countries for example western countries.
feminism is something rubbish and some sort of colonialism for those societies and some sort of Exploitation for western countries !

What does that mean? That such funding will only go to create schools for girls and women only.

yes maybe your point is true but I did not notice it I thought it was a female school as regular as other middle eastern schools. because muslims schools are seperated for females and males because of religious issues.

Granted this isn't always the case as some people just like to instigate to cause problems, but if equal funding for education was afforded to the boy's of Afghanistan and Pakistan, I seriously doubt such things would be as common.

yes education should be for all genders.

Like the perspective of the sheer number of men in Saudi Arabia. People often speak of Saudi women's limitations but completely ignore their gendered privileges. They have the Privilege of not having to worry about finances, starving to death or being homeless compared to that of Saudi men.

yes I know and I see but all of us have some metrics for ourselves that others can criticize us according to them and their metrics are Islam so they are acting contrary to that !

Both the men and women, boy's and girls of these societies need help; heck that could be said of humanity as a whole.

I think you want to say that Families need help. all of such issues should be resolved within families.