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Muslim Brotherhood - A New Dynamic and Reality, not a threat.

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posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:32 AM
During the late 40s, a vietnamese nationalist leader - Ho Chi Ming, was inspired by FDR's words of change to colonnialism to free all european colonies. Vietnam was then under French administration, but return after the war to continue with its colonnialism.

Ho had been a great help to USA in its war against the Japanese Imperial Army, saving american pilots and POWs. He had sought for American help, many times, after the war and yet was rejected obnoxious ignorant history retards within the Truman administrations who viewed Ho as a radical commie agent when all he wanted was democracy and freedom for his country.

IF the state dept then had enlightened administrators, Vietnam War would not have happened. But it happened, with USA supporting an absolutely corrupted and evil Diem regime and then military dictators, instead of the true freedom fighters that the vietnamese were and the respect that they had for USA then.

Today, we are seeing history repeating itself in Congress, over giving aid to Egypt.

There is a real concern with Muslim Brotherhood, for over the years, they did have rather bloodthirsty appetites, hatred for Israel and USA, etc.

These largely stemmed from ignorances and misunderstandings on both sides, played and manipulated by regional leaders seeking for power and misusing religion as a tool for greater control, and left much lingering pain and hatred over the decades.

And espacially so when the Muslim Brotherhood had been tarnished with the same brush applied by terrorists all over the world, and have no voice over national and international affairs, curtailed and imprisoned.

Ultimately, they do have a strong faith in Islam, and although some of which may be tainted with mis-interpretations, they can be brought back to the fold through greater peaceful discussion and debates on central tenets that ALL can agree on, unlike terrorist beasts whom want no ground except annihilation of mankind.

Today, Egypt has democracy, and the President is elected in a fair election. So far, he had not shown he is as bloodthirsty as others had portrayed him to be.

He went to Saudi Arabia on his state visit as a first, which showed he is willing to lay down the violent and repressed past, and forge a new chapter in peaceful relations with the Arab world

He then went on to Iran's Non Align Movement meeting, and actually courageously condemned Iran's role in the Syrian conflict. It goes to show he is no lackey to the Persian Apostate infidel leader, whom had been funding terrorists organisations and MB for decades.

He then condemned the atrocious anti-islam video, but he did not blame USA for the deed, unlike Iran, but instead blamed it on the individual. He did not call out for banning free speech, but only to ban hate speechs, not just for Islam, but for all religions.

He partnered with Israel to destroy the militant threat in Sinai, long thought and assumed to to be the Muslim Brotherhood thugs.

So far, he had been a show of moderation to the world. It may be a show just to get aid for his country, but nevertheless, Egypt is a democratic state today. If he fails to uplift the nation, he and the MB will be booted out, and another Muslim Kin, Muslim Comrade, Muslim Clan, etc, etc party will take is place.

As he had open his arms today, so too must the world open their arms, and through such an openess and willingness to talk, it will led to common grounds upon which all can stand on.

There will not be sitting by the fireside and singing Kumbaya all night for sure, for there will always be disagreements and misunderstandings.

But the Muslim Brotherhood had signalled that they are willing to talk, to be responsible as a govt sharing our world, and furthermore, with religious credentials that shares the common tenets of all religions, they will be a new dynamic and reality the world have to live with, not with any need hatred or suspicion, but mutual respect if they prove worthy, to progress and evolve as one mankind.

May congress and the state dept not make the same mistakes they made in 1965 Vietnam.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:59 AM
The MB gave up on violence a few decades ago for political power. Now they open schools, hospitals give loans to businesses so people can have jobs and other things that are good for their society. The MSM here in the states especially FOX keeps trying to paint them as a terrorist org and really doesn't try to show the truth about them. Like how they said the MB called for the violent protest over the video which wasn't true they called for a peaceful one like the protest that led to the ousting of Mubarak and condemned the violence as soon as it started. Something the MSM always left out when they reported on it.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 12:07 PM

Muslim Brotherhood - A New Dynamic and Reality, not a threat

The Muslim Brotherhood Motto - "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope." Yeah .. that's really not a threat at all, is it? :shk:

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:03 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Looking at it objectively, it is most certainly not a threat, unless those who harbour intentions to harm our common Creator's creations.

The Koran shares common and central tenets to the Bible, Judaism and majority of mainstream religion teachings. Only the worshipping form is different, but our Creator had never cared for outward form, only our hearts.

And much of our laws are derived from those very tenets that are taught in those sacred texts divinely given to mankind by Him, who had many names and known across many different cultures, time and space.

Holy war is only the defence of the national constitution, made up of laws agreed upon society and ONLY sanctioned by the head of state after parliamentary debates.

Dying in the defence of the constitution, the laws that binds and protects every member of the society - family, relatives and friends, is the fire that drives every human to give his best, in EVERY society on Earth sharing our planet, for if he/she does not, the enemies will take over and subjugation happens.

So, are muslims any different from jews, christians, hindus, buddhists and even atheists ( folks whom only have yet to know our Creator on a personal free will manner ) ?

Conflicts will always be around the corner. Ultimately, every human, no matter our differences, do share common values and goals in life. It is only the common ground we ALL need to find and stand on, to progress and evolve, instead of killing each other, as taught by all divine teachers and sane leaders. Killing is only reserved for wild beasts who seek for no common grounds.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:10 PM
Geezus. Has anyone here read anything of Hassan Al-Banna?

Hassan Al Banna supported Islamic violence against the state; Al Banna was also an enthusiastic supporter of the Nazi collaborator Haj Amin Al husseini.

After the war when a warrant was issued by the governing powers for the arrest of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, it was
Hassan Al Banna who organized his asylum in Egypt, and it was Hassan Al Banna who raved in his support for husseini describing him as an 'angel' of God. This, the man who tried to export the Nazi final solution to Palestine, who actively capaigned for Nazi causes in the Arab world - this man alone who is essentially responsible for the WII Nazi era antisemitism now popular in the Arab world.

And the brotherhood is 'not a threat'? Did they not create Hamas - who regularly carries out suicide attacks? Did Al Banna not preach a love of death? And does not the motto of the Brotherhood recapitulate this love in 'dying in the way of Allah is our highest aim'?

And what about Yusuf Al Qaradawi - a major ideologue of the Brotherhood who regularly expresses support for suicide missions against Israeli civilians? This isn't an issue?

Anyone with a working brain knows that the Muslim brotherhood is a major threat to Israel, and sooner or later, will become a major threat to the world.
edit on 9-10-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:18 PM
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

ctually courageously condemned Iran's role in the Syrian conflict.

You really have little or no understanding of the conflict.

Syria is controlled by a shia government. Iran is a Shia government; Iraq is moving towards a regional alliance with Iran - all three forming some greater 'shia' authority.

The Free Syrian Army in Syria, the party officially at war with the house of Assad, are SUNNI Islamists ideologically aligned with the muslim Brotherhood. So no DUH that Morsey would condemn Iran. He wants the majority Sunni to be in charge of Syria, and not Shia.

Iran, but instead blamed it on the individual.

Are you serious? His government has been prodding the US government to pass laws to prevent Americans from insulting Islam. This is an extremist, and completely undemocratic stance towards free speech.

Freedom is democratic. To curtail freedom for the sake of religion, is called a 'theocracy'.

He did not call out for banning free speech, but only to ban hate speechs, not just for Islam, but for all religions.

You have literally no clue what democracy means. If america or any government would capitulate to this draconian law, it would be a massive victory for Islamism, and further proof of the west's own demented self hatred.

We have been tolerating anti-Christian and anti Jewish speech in the democratic world since its foundations. Why all of a sudden does Islam deserve special treatment? and what makes you think they honestly give a damn about 'protecting' other religions? Of course, to make their plea sound reasonable they will conflate their desire to curb anti-islam rhetoric with 'anti-religion'.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:35 PM
reply to post by dontreally

Are both Hassan Al Banna and Yusuf Al Qaradawi the elected leaders of Egypt today?

No they are not.

New EDUCATED generations had been born, unlike the uneducated goat herders of yesterday. Today, majority of muslims around the world are moderates.

There are undeniably die hards uneducated clerics and idealogues of yesteryears and their foolish naive supporters still alive. Let's not make the same mistake the companions of the good prophet Muhammad did after he died and went on an armed rampage. It's all about winning hearts and minds in this present generation.

And nothing more rewarding is the ability to provide the social political and economic safety structure that a responsible elected govt is mandated to do.

And that takes finding of common grounds to exist both locally and internationally, working with all, within the democratic framework that successful Arab Spring states are embarking on, or to be rejected and booted out if they fail unlike theocracies such as Iran, Russia, or China.

The elected muslim brotherhood no longer has that freedom to shoot darts in the dark as an opposition entity, but a responsible elected govt to care for its people sharing our world. States who failed to behave responsible will only face the wrath of NOT only world's humanity, but its own local citizens as well.

Evolution and change .....happens. May the free world and espacially Israel wake up. Year 1948 is long gone. The promises of the new Israel then to the world that supported it must be upheld - to share Israel as a secular state will all as long as it has the capacity to do so.

And the Palestinian espacially the manipulated Hamas to end its delusion of Iran being a savior but only hell bent on prolonging the war and hatred with the jews for its own selfish purposes, to come to terms with sharing and end the insane call to push all Israelites to the sea. Mankind will NEVER allow it to happen to any ethnic group, nor will Allah who love us all.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:37 PM
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Looking at it objectively, it is most certainly not a threat, unless those who harbour intentions to harm our common Creator's creations.

I find it hilarious how you interpret an Islamic statement in the terminology of Christianity.

Where do you get the idea of our 'common creator's creations'?? What is that supposed to mean?

You assume, of course, that the Islam preached by the Muslim brotherhood - which is Salafist - is consonant with our own theological views of God.

Whats especially worrying about salafi theology - salafi means 'predecessors', referring to Islam in it's earliest says - is the special place it makes for Jihad, not just Jihad in the Sufi mystical sense, but Jihad in the martial sense, as in the early wars of the 'predecessors'.

You're applying your own ideas to words which have nothing to do with the concepts they ascribe to them. They are a MILITANTS creed. The Muslim Brotherhood aims, and everyone who knows anything about them knows this - for ressurecting the Islamic caliphate. So, naturally, that 'dying in way of Allah is our highest hope' refers particularly to the political ambitions of the brotherhood, not only in Egypt, or in Arab world, but also in former Islamic lands, which Al Banna specifically refers to: Andulasia, in Spain, souther france, and parts of Italy. And his final vision sees the spread of Islam the world over.

but our Creator had never cared for outward form

So then what, great Islamic scholar, are we to make of Shari'a? Which is the governance of outward and external things?

Holy war is only the defence of the national constitution, made up of laws agreed upon society and ONLY sanctioned by the head of state after parliamentary debates.

HAHA - are you serious? I almost think you believe this. Now you're trying to make Islam into John Locke!

If democratic laws come into conflict with Islamic law - i.e. sharia, guess which takes precedence?

Dying in the defence of the constitution, the laws that binds and protects every member of the society - family, relatives and friends, is the fire that drives every human to give his best, in EVERY society on Earth sharing our planet, for if he/she does not, the enemies will take over and subjugation happens.

What books have you been reading? Now you're essentially identifying the Islamic conception of Allah with a democratic state.

I don't deny that some, moderate Muslims would make this identification, but the brotherhood CERTAINLY DOES NOT make that identification. Stop lying, or stop reading crappy books.
edit on 9-10-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:46 PM
reply to post by dontreally

Thanks for your reply.

I would not respond to the rest of your post, as I respect your freedom of speech, and leave it to others to read and form their own conclusions on the impact of such freedoms that harms a society's beliefs, with lies or propaganda such as that offensive video had proven, regardless of one's religion.

But I would comment on your belief that President Mursi only acted over Syria because of sectarian divisions.

Are USA, Europe and the Free World also Sunni Muslims, if your logic and premise true, that they raised a ruckus at the UN over the issue?

No they are not Sunni muslims. They were only humans, and are incensed on how the humanslayer Assad had been SLAUGHTERING fellow humans. Similiarly so too President Mursi. It was a voice of outrage for humanity, for suffering and empathy is universal. Only wild beasts have no empathy.

May you stand corrected. Cheers.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 03:43 PM
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Are USA, Europe and the Free World also Sunni Muslims, if your logic and premise true, that they raised a ruckus at the UN over the issue?

That's a deranged conclusion to come to.

Within the non-Islamic world, sectarian issues within Islam obviously do not matter. The US, Europe and other countries have their own rationales for why the genocide in Syria should stop, chief amongst various reasons is humanitarian concerns.

Conversely, in Islam, there is the perennial subject of Shia and Sunni sectarian rivalry. Sunni have historically been the dominant ones, as they represent 85% or 1.2 billion Muslims, while the Shia are a mere 150,000,000 or so million, mostly in the vicinity of Iran, Iraq, and parts of Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, India, and Pakistan.

So imagine the surprise of the Sunni leadership, who just 200 years ago ruled in IRAN, that Iran, Syria, southern Lebanon (Hezbollah) and now Iraq seem to be forming a Shia bloc of nations against the Sunni ruled nations. Can the Sunni leadership let this happen? Of course not; so the Brotherhood, representing Sunni Islamist interests, would first and foremost oppose Assad because of his Shia alliances with Iran, and only secondarily because of the injustices done to the sunni faithful in his country.

To highlight this hierarchy of priorities, just look at the Palestinians: the Arab or Muslim leadership could have remedied the issue long ago, but the Sunni leadership along with the Shia leadership both refuse to countenance the presence of an autonomous Jewish state in what they regard as the 'heart of Islam'; thus, the humanitarian concern takes a backseat to the political agenda of using the Palestinian 'trauma' as a weapon against Israel's international standing.

They were only humans, and are incensed on how the humanslayer Assad had been SLAUGHTERING

A wonder why Morsy hasn't also condemned the atrocities of the Free Syrian Army against Christians in Syria.. what about them?

Oh, that's right. They're Muslims, and Christians are infidels. And your concept of a unified humanity doesn't enter their thinking processes.
edit on 9-10-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 03:46 PM
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

More BS, I suggest you go to the mideast, see how you are treated. Convert or Die. No threat there. Wake up and smell the truth.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 03:49 PM
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Today, majority of muslims around the world are moderates.

Oh, really?? Then what do you make of the rule of Shari'a in Iran, and Pakistan, and Afghanistan (particularly in Taliban ruled areas) Egypt and Saudi Arabia? All of which are Islamic goverments; the first 3 are Islamic 'republics' where Shari'a of course takes precedence to the law: thus, women are denied the democratic right of walking outside without a head scarf; where citizens are not allowed to speak critically of Islam - so no freedom of speech. And I can multiply issues in each of these countries, all of which deal with 'honor' killings in the thousands every year.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making such sweeping erroneous generalizations about the Islamic world when what you say doesn't reflect reality. Doesn't that bother you? Or are you interested in spreading false views of the Islamic world?

Also, since you consider the Islamic 'moderate', why exactly, then, do most of the real moderates advocating actual reform within Islam do so from Europe? And not the countries they're native to?? Perhaps because they know they face a real threat of assassination if they were to do it in their own backyard?

posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 10:47 AM
Thanks for the replies. I welcome negative responses, even those with deliberate intentional insults and putting one down, espacially when they are either born out of bigotry, or more frightening - ignorances.

1. With the situation in Syria, it is not a sectarian conflict that the Free world including arab states are supporting, nor are the rebels waging a sectarian war as Iran, Russia and their dogs are propagandazing.

It is just simply a People seeking for justice, regardless of their differences, with the HumanSlayer Assad.

To remain in topic, as this is about Muslim Brotherhood and in relation to the currently elected Egypt head of state - President Mursi, he had called for the end of atrocities in Syria for ALL humans there, and NOT just the end of atrocities upon the majority Sunni People, same with all concerned fellow humans in our world.

It is just pure speculation on your part, if not wilful smear upon the Egyptian president, to support your hatred of the Muslim Brotherhood. Show proof on WHERE he had claimed to support only the sunni muslims and not all syrians, or you had just been found out to be spreading your hate propaganda here.

Sunni or all, what is most critical is for the Syrian bloodshed to end, which ALL free world nations are calling, joining up and supporting for. Anything else can be sorted out later when peace or at least the rule of law is enforced in Syria.

So leave your Muslim Brotherhood PREJUDICES at the door, and enter into the priority to help end the bloodshed in Syria, which all are doing except Putin and the Iranian leaders whom supports that humanslayer to continue its rain of death upon innocents daily for close to 2 years already.

2. What exactly is 'Sharia law' that cowardly bigots had been lying about all along for decades? I will be brief and simple.

Sharia law are basically the moral and ethical guidelines laid down in the Koran and Sunnah as revealed to the Divine Teacher Prophet Muhammad for his once barbaric pagan people/society to be civilised, progress and evolve.

Many of those guidelines are the SAME as what is taught in the Old and New Testaments. If you condemn those guidelines in the Koran, you are condemning equally the Testaments.

Today, instead of Sharia or Biblical laws, we in the west followed mainly the English Common Law and its legal processess. The English Common Law are basically guidelines taken from the Testaments, and eventually progressed and evolved over time, to keep with society's growth in social, political and economic terms.

Some fundamentalists from Judaism, Islam and Christianity would claim that evolution which caused those guidelines to change is totally changing the very basic original codes.

However, nothing is further from the truth.

Evolution only change the WAY the original codes were presented, and DID NOT change its essence. Some new terms and requirements were even added to ensure the essence of the code is further protected and enhanced.

For example:- gambling is strictly forbidden in ALL human moral guidelines.

Investment is a modern concept, and in bare truth, is nothing more than gambling, for there is no such thing as perfect investments. It is made legal because capital is needed for a company and a nation's economy to grow while regulating excesses. Man are no longer sheep or agriculture farmers of the past anymore.

Without it and return on investments, there will be no earnings, and with abortions considered a sin, the growing population will be mired in poverty while the land is briming with resources - above and under the ground untapped due to lack of capital.

For the western world to return towards Sharia or Judiac laws, it would only mean regression, as the western world had evolved far and had provided much for its population and economy. It is not perfect, but there is still a system rule of law to ensure the very basic tenets of moral and ethical guidelines are still followed.

For the muslim world, they are a Society - in - progress. Far too many of them lack the opportunities in education that the free world has, and those who have such opportunities often misused it to control and keep the population in regression. Knowledge is...power, which can be either responsibly used or irresponsibly misused.

The Arab Spring is an awakening of the People - being far more educated than their parents were, and it is through them that Sharia laws in muslim state will eventually evolve and have to evolve to keep up with the growing needs, countering harmful concepts, and advancement in science and tech, no matter who is incharge of the nation, for democracy is won, and those leaders who fail will be booted out.

The Arab states legal system will not evolve overnight. It will take time. And with wider participation in honest debate within democracy to freely speak up, be patient, and you will see its progress, as seen daily. Even a rough edged river stone will become smooth over time

edit on 10-10-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 29 2012 @ 02:21 PM
Events in the muslim world are getting clearer by the day.

Syria is turning out to be the muslim sectarian clash as envision by some, but soley between Shias and Sunnis. Both sects from around the world are sending, or volunteers going on their own free will, to kill each other.

Shias from Iraq, lebanon, sudan, with a stopover funded freely by Iran before entiring Syria as the usual 'pilgrims', while Sunnis from around the world make their own way through the porus borders

It's a no brainer on who will win in the end.

The persian apostate infidel leader Khamenei had been a fool, and so too his predecessor Khomeni. They both stupidly thought that by manipulating arab anger against Israel and the west will make the Sunnis forget about their centuries old conflict with each other.

Truth will always prevail, just as the financial crise had to happened to reveal the deep and regressive flaws in humanity. So too the apostate's foolish manipulations.

He should have sought for the West's democratic ways to protect Shiaism, as western progressive democratic idealogies protects all religious freedoms. But he did not, and now bear the brunt of the awoken Sunni anger against his cunningness, and are demanding blood. Even Hamas woke up now, abeit slowly.

The free west can support the 'rebels' but should stay out of this fight and never attempt to put western boots on the grounds. This is a issue that will be fought by the religion alone, and Syria, unfortunately, will be the final battle ground to determine the winner. There can only be one.

The flaw of Shiaism is in its centrality of focussing upon the mythical Mahdi, wherelse, the Sunnis, while believing in the Mahdi, do not focus upon him, but rightly on the teachings of the prophet Muhammad, and had became a force in the world with its majority.

But there is no need to fear Sunnism, for in its true sense, it is a democracy as taught by the good prophet Muhammad, who left no heir nor appointed any leader. It was the rule of assembly, and not just by one.

Al Queda is long dead, along with its leader and idealogies. Who is Zarwari, but only another human. He is not a prophet or elected leader of the muslim community, thus what he mouthed is only pure BS, if not apostasy if he dare claim divine messages, for after Prophet Muhammad, Islam will have no more messenger, and anyone who claim so is an apostate.

So too the same with any aspiring Sunni militant commander. They have no authority and Islam is not to be so blasphemously misued by them, and will not be supported by the muslim world.

Today's sunni militants may seek for Syriah law, or ban education. Let them. Tyrannical rule of a People had been proven as failures by mankind for centuries. Those militants will have to answer, be responsible and accountable to the People for social-political - ecnomic issues.

If they fail, they will be booted out, no matter how pious they are. Idelogies alone cannot feed and progress the nation. Brain drainage will occur, and loss of economic might will follow quickly next.

Their leaders have to share the world with the rest of mankind, and follow international rules of law based upon human rights, otherwise, other nations will not deal with them, and as the world depend on trade to progress, they lose economic growth and will be booted out.

But if they are willing to cooperate, work within the human rights asperations of all humanity - muslims or non-muslims, sharing our world for common goals of peace and prosperity, they will survive.

As true islam is about democratic principles, so too is the rest of humanity whom we can work together to achieve same goals, except for tyrant states, whom will be dying out soon, so too tyrant militant wannabes.

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