What John Kerry's America would have looked like...

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posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by CMCLA2003
You know Ed you point out what John Kerry's "America" will be if he is elected, which I do believe you exagerrated quite abit. But why don't we be fair and balance, like Fox news LOL.

Im voting for Kerry because I believe this man can do great things for this country, and im tired of the same!


It's a lovely notion, but there is no longevity of thought in either of these leaders truthfully. It'll be more of the same of two directions to the same place.

That place is distruction as we can not continue to build forever without radical change every so often. That change should be a major rehashing of the complete government structure (back to basics sort of thing).

Otherwise we get wiped out when our pants are down when we crash.

But the major opposition to something that will enact lasting change, is in people desire not to "burst the bubble" a bit. They do not look at the big picture.




posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:31 PM
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edsinger...

I see caplitalism in its truest form as nothing more than a way to keep the rich rich and to neglect the poor... The problem with capitalism is it assumes money is the most important thing in life... It isnt and untill people get that through their heads the world is going to be money driven and in the end that will # the whole planet up



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
edsinger...

I see caplitalism in its truest form as nothing more than a way to keep the rich rich and to neglect the poor... The problem with capitalism is it assumes money is the most important thing in life... It isnt and untill people get that through their heads the world is going to be money driven and in the end that will # the whole planet up


Again, that is a distortion to rival the capitalists claim that other forms of government (i.e. Socialism) is corrupt, etc.

Capitalism is not what you discribe, but something rather different (much like Marx). Neither are evil in theory, only in practice.

The form does not matter, humans will have their hands in whatever we set up, and that is the path to distruction.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempeEmpty the Social Security trust fund by $507 billion to help offset fiscal irresponsibility and at the same time slash Social Security benefits.



Uh recession? Uh ECONOMY bad BEFORE took OFFICE then 911.



Originally posted by dgtempeCut Medicare by 17 percent and reduce veterans benefits and military pay.


Didnt I read somewhere that this was voted on in 1997 and Kerry voted for it? I remember this somehwere, it was ALREADY set to happen PRE-Bush



Originally posted by dgtempeEliminate overtime pay for millions of Americans and raise oil prices by 50 percent.


Really? Your reading the New York Times arent you?

50%, well that sure is all Bush's fault again.....So the $87 a barrel was Reagans fault to huh? How much oil does Bush Jr drill for? How many Senators will not let us drill our own in Alaska and California? TREEHUGGER ALERT!



Originally posted by dgtempeGive tax cuts to businesses that sent American jobs overseas, and, in fact, by policy encourage their departure.


Tax cuts that got corperate folks to start INVESTING again, Venture Capitalists etc etc etc , a growing economy that is unmatched since Reagan!



Originally posted by dgtempeGive away billions of tax dollars in government contracts without competitive bids.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


And there is a thread on this, SO DID CLINTON. There was no other company that could do it, and even Halliburton had to subcontract out.


Originally posted by dgtempeInvolve this country in a deadly and highly questionable war, and


Read the 911 report. and see this thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by dgtempeTake a budget surplus and turn it into the worst deficit in the history of the United States, creating a debt in just four years that will take generations to repay.


Oh here we go again, In reagans's years the deficit was WORSE when adjusted for inflation and it brought the boom of the ninetes!

July 2003

Policy Summary
The White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) recently projected that the US federal budget will see an unprecedented $691 billion deterioration in its budget situation moving from record surpluses of $236 billion in 2000 to record deficits of $455 billion in 2003. This paper outlines some of the basic characteristics of the current situation and places them in the context of recent history.

The current $455 billion deficit is:

the highest deficit in current dollar terms in history
the highest deficit adjusted for inflation since WWII
$1,561 per person
4.2% of GDP
In addition, when you exclude the social security surplus, the deficit is currently 5.7% of GDP and the second largest percentage since WWII (only the 1983 budget under Reagan had a larger deficit.)




Originally posted by dgtempeI'll take evil Kerry any time.


Good you can have him and his taxes!



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
edsinger...

I see caplitalism in its truest form as nothing more than a way to keep the rich rich and to neglect the poor... The problem with capitalism is it assumes money is the most important thing in life... It isnt and untill people get that through their heads the world is going to be money driven and in the end that will # the whole planet up


And what alternative do you feel is better? Socialism? Ok you are so entitled.

I believe that America would be stronger if we hadnt created a dependant voting block with free handouts. I believe in blood, sweat, and tears.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:41 PM
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His plans for America are totally

Anti-American!

Raise taxes??? Socialised medicine??? Robbing peter to give to Paul????

This grey haired succubus is anything but American...


I also don't think An American War Veteran would create lies and put his fellow vets in harms way and degrade them for political gain ...

He's sure got balls doing the # he's done... I think it's time for someone to castrate his ass...

Clinton sold China nuke secrets... Kerry sold his fellow vets out.... What makes you think he wouldn't sell this country out or the people that live in it???



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:47 PM
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An Anti capitalist attitude is one thing, but when you don't even have a clue of what your talking about is another...

The beauty about being in a free market society is that YOU hold the power to make YOUR life how YOU want it to be...

That has to do with being responsible, caring about yourself, your family, making choices that you'll enjoy making so that you can make your life however you want it to be...

Having the choice to mold YOUR life the way you choose to is what freedom is all about...

You don't have that choice if your living under communism....



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:49 PM
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Jethro

thats why i was careful to say capitalism in its truest form... I know in practice nothing works and in theory, everything works. I just feel the left works better in theory than the right if you look at the society in general not just the economy



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 11:57 PM
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You know your pointing out Kerrys faults, but have you pointed out one of Bush's faults? No you haven't. I do not trust Bush whatsoever, I remind you who awards contracts to companys who dont even bid on them? The H word comes to mind....... You know maybe if we didnt go to Iraq and put that money behind some domestic programs, or help find Bin Laden we wouldn't be in as bad shape. Or instead of giving us that tax break, I have a great idea what would have helped the economy a public works project. You take that tax money hired people (therefore more jobs are created) and build something big that would make everyone want to travel and see it, and put it in a state that needs it. That would have also help us get out of the recession. But of course you want a president who was a C average student to lead this country. You know if your going to critize kerry for his faults, than critize Bush for his. FAIR AND BALANCE!



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 12:10 AM
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I guess some people would rather have a C average student then a treasonous anti american wolf in sheeps skin...


A C student person seems alot more better then the lurch...


Have you even thought about what will happen to the economy and to people's wallets if Kerry gets in??? If your a true liberal you should be thinking about those middle class folks and having sympathy for em, cuz if kerry gets in, their gonna be takin it up the ass hardcore...

[edit on 18-10-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 12:45 AM
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Like the middle class isn't already taken a beating from the Bush Administration? Health Care Premiums are outrageous, tuition is becoming so you can't afford it, loss of jobs! Yeah I guess thats how conservate Bush is, hes for the middle class, NOT! He cares about one thing, to help the special interest group that is lining his pockets full of money. Dont argue with me that hes not hard on the middle class, he gave the richest people in the country a tax break, which equalled about 89 billion dollars, must be nice to get a piece of that chunk of change. Besides the way Bush's plan to solve the deficit issue is to keep borrowing, do you realize we have to borrow about 1.2 billion dollars a day just to keep this economy going. And I believe congress has to come back in november to increase the federal borrowing limit, since we just breach the ceiling. Also I believe the environment will be a lot better of without Bush. You know you are talking about a president who didnt get a majority vote last time he ran, he won by the electoral college. Which should be changed. The great uniter he wanted to be known for, hes the great divider



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by CMCLA2003
Like the middle class isn't already taken a beating from the Bush Administration?


Well you cant build growth in such a short time, the economy is moving and lets not stunt it with more taxes.

[edit on 18-10-2004 by edsinger]



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 02:08 AM
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True Lies,

I am not a communist, just because i have very left views... its like me accusing edsinger or youself for being Facsist because you are quite to the right in your views... I believe capitalism is good but you have to look out for the people who cant support themselves. Human beings are social and should look after each other, not just themselves. I am socialist in some ways yes, but i dont like to say i follow any political doctrine (like religious doctrines) i formulate my views and argue what i believe is the best... but obviously that wont work for everyone.



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
True Lies,

I am not a communist, just because i have very left views... its like me accusing edsinger or youself for being Facsist because you are quite to the right in your views... I believe capitalism is good but you have to look out for the people who cant support themselves. Human beings are social and should look after each other, not just themselves. I am socialist in some ways yes, but i dont like to say i follow any political doctrine (like religious doctrines) i formulate my views and argue what i believe is the best... but obviously that wont work for everyone.


I ahve to agree with you in a sense. We ahve to take care of those that cant and our elderly. But we ahve built a socialist/capitalist society that rewards laziness. Free rides are not the route to go......



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 08:40 AM
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The key to capitalism is the recreation of family and community. They are the strength that prevents the government from having to be too heavily involved in our lives.

Remember people, the right does not always want to eliminate social programs because they are greedy (which happens, but is less the norm than one would think).

We simply would like to have greater control over our donations, money, investments, and aid. I would much rather have the government give me my money back and be able to aid my community better with it.

The standard responce to this idea is that we can't trust people to give and help others, so we must do it for them.

There lies the problem. When you take away social responcibility, you create a system where people do not give because they assume the government is handling it (which they are supposed to be doing, but are obviously failing at).



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyJethro
The key to capitalism is the recreation of family and community. They are the strength that prevents the government from having to be too heavily involved in our lives.

Remember people, the right does not always want to eliminate social programs because they are greedy (which happens, but is less the norm than one would think).

We simply would like to have greater control over our donations, money, investments, and aid. I would much rather have the government give me my money back and be able to aid my community better with it.

The standard responce to this idea is that we can't trust people to give and help others, so we must do it for them.

There lies the problem. When you take away social responcibility, you create a system where people do not give because they assume the government is handling it (which they are supposed to be doing, but are obviously failing at).


I cant find a thing wrong with any of this, but as you well know the Government will never give us such control over our own lives.



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I cant find a thing wrong with any of this, but as you well know the Government will never give us such control over our own lives.


Yes it will if you vote *cough cough* libertarian


One thing I don't understand are the people who don't trust our current government, but would trust another one that is the opposite of this current admins views. How could you trust somebody thats speaks out of both sides of his mouth, and if he needs to he'll speak out of his ass...

How could people support a government where they want to control where your money is going, they want to control the needy, how much they be allowed, food stamps ect, I don't think the food stamp issue has even been addressed why do we still have them? So many issues so little time.


If you allowed yourself the responsibility of putting your money where you think it hould go, that is far more better then having the government control where it's going... YOu don't even really know where your money goes to as it is, if it's supposedly going to programs that help poor people ect ect, why don't we see any improvement?? Or does it go to the people who are running the programs so they can pay for their employees, desks, computers, lighting, ect ect...

I would rather be able to see my tax dollars going to the state level so I at least see where the money is going and at least see improvements in my community...



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by edsinger
I cant find a thing wrong with any of this, but as you well know the Government will never give us such control over our own lives.


Yes it will if you vote *cough cough* libertarian


One thing I don't understand are the people who don't trust our current government, but would trust another one that is the opposite of this current admins views. How could you trust somebody thats speaks out of both sides of his mouth, and if he needs to he'll speak out of his ass...

How could people support a government where they want to control where your money is going, they want to control the needy, how much they be allowed, food stamps ect, I don't think the food stamp issue has even been addressed why do we still have them? So many issues so little time.


If you allowed yourself the responsibility of putting your money where you think it hould go, that is far more better then having the government control where it's going... YOu don't even really know where your money goes to as it is, if it's supposedly going to programs that help poor people ect ect, why don't we see any improvement?? Or does it go to the people who are running the programs so they can pay for their employees, desks, computers, lighting, ect ect...

I would rather be able to see my tax dollars going to the state level so I at least see where the money is going and at least see improvements in my community...



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 12:22 PM
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I had to pay my tax cut back, 100%.

Was Osama in Iraq? Is that why we invaded? Oh I know why, Saddam admitted to attacking us on 9/11.

Didn't Saddam buy all of his wmd's from Bush sr? Yeah, I recall hearing something like that. He then turned around and used them on his own people. I think we still supported him in the iraq/iran war afterwords as well. Hmmmm.
, I don't know.

Did you know that a bunch of schools in my area had to convert janitor closets into classrooms and actually almost double class sizes? You want to know why? Because they are underfunded. If you want to play sports or something extracurricular you know have to pay and average of $300 per student plus any equipement they might need. This is on top of the taxes you already pay. I know of one school that lost 4 varsity players becouse they can not afford to play. Varsity players that had excellent chance of getting a football scholarship. Now they will be lucky if they can get into community collage.

Do not take me wrong this doesn't mean I am voting for kerry, because I am still unshure. I will say that my vote will not be going towords bush. He is just a blabbering fool who needs to go back to elementary school and learn how to talk.



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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"What John Kerry's America will look like..."

- No....honest, it's true ......it would be exactly like the caricature commie hell-hole I'm describing.....no really, it would.....no, come on, listen, everybody.....stop thinking about how aweful Bush's tenure has actually been and listen to my scare stories.......everybody.......listen......tax, reds, commies, freedom, 9/11, terrorists and terrorism, God, God bless America.....










[edit on 18-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]





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