A question to the vets of Iraq and Afghanistan what are you saving us from?

I guess this is the bottom line, you are asking a question of individuals who do not see it simply as 'what is the point'.

They see it as a mission, take this hill or assault that building. They see it not in the whole but in the job in front of them. You have the privileged of looking at the big picture, they do not.

reply to post by freedomSlave


If they want to save us from anything then come home and guard our borders. How can being over there make us any safer over here? How many dirty bombs could be slipped up through Mexico? Illegal drugs have no problem coming across. ICE is sending illegal immigrants home daily from the US. They slipped in no problem.

I guarantee bringing our Men and Women home and building more bases here will have a lot less of them coming home in coffins. The government has their mercenaries, oops contractors over there. Let them die for a dollar and let our troops come home and protect our families.

Remember what happened the last time we had our defenses in the wrong place at the wrong time? NORAD on 9/11.

reply to post by freedomSlave


My first war was Gulf War I and I still believe in doing the job I contracted to do.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

If they want to save us from anything then come home and guard our borders. How can being over there make us any safer over here? How many dirty bombs could be slipped up through Mexico? Illegal drugs have no problem coming across. ICE is sending illegal immigrants home daily from the US. They slipped in no problem.

I guarantee bringing our Men and Women home and building more bases here will have a lot less of them coming home in coffins. The government has their mercenaries, oops contractors over there. Let them die for a dollar and let our troops come home and protect our families.

Remember what happened the last time we had our defenses in the wrong place at the wrong time? NORAD on 9/11.

edit on 8-10-2012 by TheLieWeLive because: (no reason given)

Actually, in the words of bruce willis, 'General William Devereaux: The Army is a broad sword, not a scalpel. Trust me, senator - you do not want the Army in an American city.'

The last thing you want is the Army to man the border, that is not their mission statement, they are not trained to run this type of operation, they are trained to combat a force of equal firepower. As much as I have faith in the morality and dedication of our soldiers, it is like the old cold war scenarios, you do not want the US and USSR navy floating to close......

reply to post by freedomSlave


Nothing random about the missions I've been on. It's called intelligence prep of the battlefield. And yes, I understand that there are two sides to every story. Unlike many of my peers, I've never hated my enemy. because were I in their shoes, I'd be doing the same thing. Wars are started by the wealthy; for the most part its the poor that actually fights them.

reply to post by freedomSlave


If I wanted to fight domestic terrorism I'd have become a cop. Its not my job.

Originally posted by Rastus3663
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

Nothing random about the missions I've been on. It's called intelligence prep of the battlefield. And yes, I understand that there are two sides to every story. Unlike many of my peers, I've never hated my enemy. because were I in their shoes, I'd be doing the same thing. Wars are started by the wealthy; for the most part its the poor that actually fights them.

Well said, to know your enemy is to respect your enemy, to respect your enemy is to know them. A true soldier does not fight with hate, or malice, they fight because they believe in the mission they are given and the cause they stand for. It has nothing to do with the individual on the other side of the field in which they believe in their cause as much as you believe in yours. War may be started by hate at the top levels, but it is rarely conducted on the front lines in a manner of hate and emotions. In fact, most good soldiers will tell you that their response is not from emotion but training and experience not unlike a ring fighter or martial artist. The spirit of a warrior does not dwell on emotion but cold logic and the ability to predict their opponents next move.

I agree, tired of the ones who join and whine why don't we appreciate them saving us from a ficticious enemy that our Government created. They say "combat" No. It's an occupation. Vietnam & Korea & WWII was "combat".

What we have now is two, count em two Ocupations of other folks countries. We are doing what Russia did in the 70 & 80's. Invade, occupy, take what we want. Except we do it under the guise of freedom. We let 25 million illegals enter our country by simply walking across our pourous southern border. How dare anyone say "your protecting us from terrorist's, by being in another country. How ridiculous is that. We border Mexico & Canada, not Afghanistan or Iraq.

It's more than obvious that if our Government was worried about terrorist's from the middle east, they would close up that pourous southern border. If you joined the military to keep us safe. You should have just joined the border patrol, because that's where your needed. Not doing "opium patrols" in Afghanistan. No war was declared by our Congress, which makes the two occupations we are currently in "Illegal". And a soldier makes his oath to the Constitution of the United States of America not POTUS.To protect against all enemies foreign and domestic. And there's far more "domestic" than there is foreign. You all that joined have drank the Military Industrial Complex "kool aid". Sure aint mama's kool aid is it.

I am sick and tired of my country being the worlds bully. And we are. We have become a country of hate, as in all other countries HATE US. Tired of innocent kids dieing, ours and theirs. Enough to America is never enough.

I love how people want the military on our soil essentially at war. Really? You want the military at the border? Ever heard of posse comitatus? Its illegal to use the military as police. And if they were doing sll that, youd bitch about jt.

We should go back to the constitution and have a well regulated militia run by the state. Train everyone of a certain age, and keep them in their home. Sure some active duty would be needed to man bases, an attack could happen at any time. But they arent our police. We dont want martial law.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
I agree, tired of the ones who join and whine why don't we appreciate them saving us from a ficticious enemy that our Government created. They say "combat" No. It's an occupation. Vietnam & Korea & WWII was "combat".

What we have now is two, count em two Ocupations of other folks countries. We are doing what Russia did in the 70 & 80's. Invade, occupy, take what we want. Except we do it under the guise of freedom. We let 25 million illegals enter our country by simply walking across our pourous southern border. How dare anyone say "your protecting us from terrorist's, by being in another country. How ridiculous is that. We border Mexico & Canada, not Afghanistan or Iraq.

It's more than obvious that if our Government was worried about terrorist's from the middle east, they would close up that pourous southern border. If you joined the military to keep us safe. You should have just joined the border patrol, because that's where your needed. Not doing "opium patrols" in Afghanistan. No war was declared by our Congress, which makes the two occupations we are currently in "Illegal". And a soldier makes his oath to the Constitution of the United States of America not POTUS.To protect against all enemies foreign and domestic. And there's far more "domestic" than there is foreign. You all that joined have drank the Military Industrial Complex "kool aid". Sure aint mama's is it.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Guess you were never in uniform, including that of a boy scout.

reply to post by freedomSlave


You missed the point, I don't care if I'm saving the western world or not. This is how I make my living.. My loyalty is to my fellow soldiers. I don't care about the politics and I'm not a flag waving patriot. When people thank me for my service I tell them "honestly I do it for the money". So far everyone's been good with that and they appreciate my candor.

reply to post by pointr97


That first line sorta supersedes the others does it not? First oath is to Constitution and no I was never in a military uniform. I was smart enough not to drink the kool aid. Plus they want a whole person with all their fingers. And No I was never a boy scout, was kicked out for eating a Brownie. But I have an opinion . Just like you. And they differ greatly. Anti war vs war monger. I know which I am, do you? I like that last line, And so help me God. What God? It might as well say And so help me Santa or Mother Goose or insert your favorite fairey tale here.

Originally posted by pointr97
I guess this is the bottom line, you are asking a question of individuals who do not see it simply as 'what is the point'.

They see it as a mission, take this hill or assault that building. They see it not in the whole but in the job in front of them. You have the privileged of looking at the big picture, they do not.

First off thank you for taking the time and talking to me really do appreciate it . That is a good point

I guess this is the bottom line, you are asking a question of individuals who do not see it simply as 'what is the point'.

I would think it would be first and most important thing before agreeing to be deployed if weather or not they agree with the ethic of the whole situation . The impulse and knee jerk reactions of 9/11 i am starting to realized it dupped a lot of people to going to these places . I am very well aware of Afghanistan more than the war in Iraq as Canadian forces lead the mission after America decided to occupy Iraq . Sorry but my homeland occupation is more important to me than Americas. I would like to think the the troops are the last line of defense against an unethical war , they should be . as one mentioned it was more or less for a paycheck to support his family . As with my brother who severed in Afghanistan and Bosnia He did it for the money here you get a lump sum of money to do a tour on top of your wage. He didn't care about the ethic behind it just the money.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

If they want to save us from anything then come home and guard our borders. How can being over there make us any safer over here? How many dirty bombs could be slipped up through Mexico? Illegal drugs have no problem coming across. ICE is sending illegal immigrants home daily from the US. They slipped in no problem.

I guarantee bringing our Men and Women home and building more bases here will have a lot less of them coming home in coffins. The government has their mercenaries, oops contractors over there. Let them die for a dollar and let our troops come home and protect our families.

Remember what happened the last time we had our defenses in the wrong place at the wrong time? NORAD on 9/11.

edit on 8-10-2012 by TheLieWeLive because: (no reason given)

I agree we shouldn't be there bring them home I think we have done enough damage on bothside

reply to post by pointr97


I only starred you post with the oath, I should have starred them all. I remeber those words, spoken by me 13 years ago november 2. I still hold them just as faithfully today as I did then, one day this nation may once again require my services, when that day comes, I will once again fulfill my oath to the best of my ability. They will remain with me until the day I leave this world, and I will never forget to uphold them.

Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by pointr97
I guess this is the bottom line, you are asking a question of individuals who do not see it simply as 'what is the point'.

They see it as a mission, take this hill or assault that building. They see it not in the whole but in the job in front of them. You have the privileged of looking at the big picture, they do not.

First off thank you for taking the time and talking to me really do appreciate it . That is a good point

No thank you necessary, I appreciate you bringing up the topic from the aspect that there are a number of people with your philosophy. ie, how could they fight a fight they don't agree with. My first civilian boss and i had a long heated conversation about the operations, he finally said, 'this is the way I want you to do it.'. I stood up and said, 'yes sir, not a problem'. he stopped me and asked how I could do what I didn't agree with but also do the best job I could at it if my heart wasn't in it. I told him that he had never run into a soldier before, and further explained, 'we will give our opinion when requested, but when the order is given, we follow the order.' Now that sounds as if we are mindless zombies, but without cause, we are bound to follow the order as best we can. If we have even the slightest ground of anything unethical nature to the order, we are mandated to question that order.

I guess this is the bottom line, you are asking a question of individuals who do not see it simply as 'what is the point'.

I would think it would be first and most important thing before agreeing to be deployed if weather or not they agree with the ethic of the whole situation . The impulse and knee jerk reactions of 9/11 i am starting to realized it dupped a lot of people to going to these places . I am very well aware of Afghanistan more than the war in Iraq as Canadian forces lead the mission after America decided to occupy Iraq . Sorry but my homeland occupation is more important to me than Americas. I would like to think the the troops are the last line of defense against an unethical war , they should be . as one mentioned it was more or less for a paycheck to support his family . As with my brother who severed in Afghanistan and Bosnia He did it for the money here you get a lump sum of money to do a tour on top of your wage. He didn't care about the ethic behind it just the money.

I am a bit sad by the soldiers that do it for the money, but I can understand it. It isn't the foundation of why they do it that matters, it is their actions in combat. I'm of the Bosnia generation, and I will be the first to attest that we needed to be there. However, Clinton didn't send us there to do anything else besides try to keep the three factions from killing eachother. Afghanistan is nothing more than us holding ground on hostile territory in which we have no safe haven. Think about the point of the trooper.......they would gladly come home, why would you want to be in that area if you didn't have to be. I can promise the minute that order is given, they are packed in five.

Originally posted by Rastus3663
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

If I wanted to fight domestic terrorism I'd have become a cop. Its not my job.

lol very true made me laugh .

However if we cannot stop the terrorism at home how do we expect to stop it in other places . we are just pissing them off by trying to dictate their countries . These counties we are occupying are an utter mess now and will fall in to civil war when we pull out . if the shoe was on the other foot and america was being occupied for the war on terrorism I am sure many wouldn't put up with it either and start to fight back. It needs to stop , the governments don't care what happens to it's troops . and it is up to all of us to stop it troops and civilians it is your lives on the line all in the name of what it's just not right for anyone the troops suffering on the front lines to the civilians who are in shock from what is happening . it is just breeding hate on both sides of the war and will probably be a conflict again with our kids .

Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by Rastus3663
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

If I wanted to fight domestic terrorism I'd have become a cop. Its not my job.

lol very true made me laugh .

However if we cannot stop the terrorism at home how do we expect to stop it in other places . we are just pissing them off by trying to dictate their countries . These counties we are occupying are an utter mess now and will fall in to civil war when we pull out . if the shoe was on the other foot and america was being occupied for the war on terrorism I am sure many wouldn't put up with it either and start to fight back. It needs to stop , the governments don't care what happens to it's troops . and it is up to all of us to stop it troops and civilians it is your lives on the line all in the name of what it's just not right for anyone the troops suffering on the front lines to the civilians who are in shock from what is happening . it is just breeding hate on both sides of the war and will probably be a conflict again with our kids .

Maybe I have missed a news bit or two, what terrorism at home? The number of deaths from terrorism at home is non-existent, we have more deaths from smoking (and I smoke, and still do), car crashes, plane crashes, convenient store robberies, car jackings, home invasion, ...the list goes on and ends with our current greatest killer in the US, Obesity.....Seriously, a big mac kills more than a terrorist does, maybe we ought to siege McDonalds.

Originally posted by Rastus3663
reply to post by freedomSlave

 

You missed the point, I don't care if I'm saving the western world or not. This is how I make my living.. My loyalty is to my fellow soldiers. I don't care about the politics and I'm not a flag waving patriot. When people thank me for my service I tell them "honestly I do it for the money". So far everyone's been good with that and they appreciate my candor.

Actually I respected your first post it was honest it was the first honest reply I had received since i started asking this question the other day.. This thread really helped me more understand were a lot of you are coming from and mind set. Refraining from my knee jerk reactions to try to understand a little better

reply to post by freedomSlave


You once again seem to think soldiers have a choice, you used the words "avree to be deployed".

Your agreement is not obligatory, you don't get a choice in the matter at all, you will go where ordered when ordered or you will be punished under the uniform code of military justice( UCMJ for us military types). Which will most likely result in around 15 years in lovely Fort Levenworth Kansas ( a military prison for those that don't know) or a dishonorable discharge, which voids all the benefits for your college education and medical care at the VA.

It is not vvoluntary to be deployed, you don't agree to go, they tell you and you must, or you will wish you had.

Was this in any way unclear to you? It has been stated at least 4 times now in this thread, yet you act like the President walks into your unit day room and says "who wants to go risk their lives and kill civillians, while not seeing your family for 18 months, for little pay?"

IT IS NOT VOLUNTARY, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE, YOU MUST GO IF ORDERED, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE!!!!!!!