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A question to the vets of Iraq and Afghanistan what are you saving us from?
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I have been talking/ arguing with vets of Iraq and Afghanistan over the last day and a half. Always with the we are there dying to protect our
countries and it's inhabitants . I keep bringing up the question what are we being saved from . Never do I get a reply to my answer , like they are
avoiding it like a plague.
Do these vets truly believe that they are saving us from terrorist from then middle east , Well I guess so seeing how they refuse to answer a simple question . I would assume one would be more likely to suffer from home grown terrorism ( some weirdo white guy ) in a movie theater , or some socially awkward kids in schools or a gun shoot out from rival gangs , than we are to be terrorized by some middle eastern guy with a bomb strapped to his chest or hijacking .
Is it really just to collect a paycheck or did you just want a vacation from the wife and kids or do you actually believe in this war on terror .
Shouldn't maybe you try to rid your own country of terrorism of weirdo white guys than bombing countries and bombing populated areas over some group who took down the trade towers who still your government seem to have no clue as to who really did it as it would appear iran is now getting the blame for it . story to iranian us lawsuit
Opps sorry Afghanistan guess we had bad intel yet again but look at those lush poppy fields popping up getting ready for shipment to the western world .
Then Off to Iraq where ohh no bad intel again nothing was found for wmd
so what was the point of that occupation in these vets opinion .
I also guess these vets don't realize when you start bombing countries for no reason there will be resistance such as the case with Omar khadr when troops are surrounding the house that broke out into gun fire
Omar khadr
Why is this child forced to apologize to the soldiers wife what every other allied forces should get the same for war crimes no ? Has any of you vets apologized to the wives and families for the shelling and /or killing of these so called terrorists .
So again what was it you vets from Iraq and Afghanistan are protecting us from . please I would really love to hear and understand how you feel you are defending our countries?
Do these vets truly believe that they are saving us from terrorist from then middle east , Well I guess so seeing how they refuse to answer a simple question . I would assume one would be more likely to suffer from home grown terrorism ( some weirdo white guy ) in a movie theater , or some socially awkward kids in schools or a gun shoot out from rival gangs , than we are to be terrorized by some middle eastern guy with a bomb strapped to his chest or hijacking .
Is it really just to collect a paycheck or did you just want a vacation from the wife and kids or do you actually believe in this war on terror .
Shouldn't maybe you try to rid your own country of terrorism of weirdo white guys than bombing countries and bombing populated areas over some group who took down the trade towers who still your government seem to have no clue as to who really did it as it would appear iran is now getting the blame for it . story to iranian us lawsuit
Opps sorry Afghanistan guess we had bad intel yet again but look at those lush poppy fields popping up getting ready for shipment to the western world .
Then Off to Iraq where ohh no bad intel again nothing was found for wmd
so what was the point of that occupation in these vets opinion .
I also guess these vets don't realize when you start bombing countries for no reason there will be resistance such as the case with Omar khadr when troops are surrounding the house that broke out into gun fire
Omar khadr
Khadr pled guilty to the murder of Christopher Speer. On October 29, 2010, despite the prosecution psychiatrist testifying that he showed no signs of remorse,[31] Khadr apologized to the widow of Speer for the pain he had caused her. Khadr also said his eight years in prison had taught him "the beauty of life".[32] Defence attorney Lieutenant Colonel Jon Jackson made a passionate argument to the war crimes tribunal sentencing panel saying that Khadr had no option but to fight in the gun battle: "Omar Khadr was a lawful target but he didn't have the right to fight back," Jackson said.[33] On October 31, 2010, Khadr was sentenced to eight more years in custody in accordance with the plea agreement which was unsealed after the military sentencing jury recommended that he should serve 40 years
Why is this child forced to apologize to the soldiers wife what every other allied forces should get the same for war crimes no ? Has any of you vets apologized to the wives and families for the shelling and /or killing of these so called terrorists .
So again what was it you vets from Iraq and Afghanistan are protecting us from . please I would really love to hear and understand how you feel you are defending our countries?
Like Vietnam, you are asking the wrong group. Soldiers took an oath to obey lawful order, pose your question to the commander in chief.
First off, I agree that we had no business going into Iraq. And there is no reason for there still being troops in Afghanistan.
Sure a lot of the guys buy the crap that is being fed to them by MSM. But you also have to remember. That people do what they do. Carpenters build stuff, artists create art, and soldiers fight battles.Just because the reasons are BS or you disagree with it, those guys are not going to stop doing what they do.
With that being said, Afghanistan, is a horrible horrible place. No one wants to be there, at least not after they have been there for a few weeks outside of the wire. But no one is out there trying to kill civilians, they are over their trying to survive. There is no clear goal anymore, and there has not been for the past several years. The only thing the guys over there care about is getting home in one piece.
But that's what warfighters do, someone points them at a war, and says "Hey, go do your thing." It's no different than someone telling a construction worker that they need a building somewhere.
Sure a lot of the guys buy the crap that is being fed to them by MSM. But you also have to remember. That people do what they do. Carpenters build stuff, artists create art, and soldiers fight battles.Just because the reasons are BS or you disagree with it, those guys are not going to stop doing what they do.
With that being said, Afghanistan, is a horrible horrible place. No one wants to be there, at least not after they have been there for a few weeks outside of the wire. But no one is out there trying to kill civilians, they are over their trying to survive. There is no clear goal anymore, and there has not been for the past several years. The only thing the guys over there care about is getting home in one piece.
But that's what warfighters do, someone points them at a war, and says "Hey, go do your thing." It's no different than someone telling a construction worker that they need a building somewhere.
Originally posted by pointr97
Like Vietnam, you are asking the wrong group. Soldiers took an oath to obey lawful order, pose your question to the commander in chief.
So that means they must throw ethics and reasoning out the window What if they were ordered to jump off a cliff by commanding officer they are bound by law to do so ?
Originally posted by pointr97
Like Vietnam, you are asking the wrong group. Soldiers took an oath to obey lawful order, pose your question to the commander in chief.
Soldiers take an oath to the country, not to the commander in chief. infact theyre supposed to protect us from domestic enemies as well. they should be invading dc then
anyway....theyre brainwashed. Just like 95% of the regular people. Most people cant break the programming. Additionally, once they join, if theg figure out the problem with the war....they cant just walk out. Contracts you know. Probably part of the reason for the high suicides. Honestly what we do in the middle east is terrorism.
Now, i have my own theory, but thats for another thread. I think this is a matrix and that most people are sentient computer programs. Infact i am completely positive i have encountered a few of the agents..... But i wont derail this thread.
Originally posted by freedomSlave
Originally posted by pointr97
Like Vietnam, you are asking the wrong group. Soldiers took an oath to obey lawful order, pose your question to the commander in chief.
So that means they must throw ethics and reasoning out the window What if they were ordered to jump off a cliff by commanding officer they are bound by law to do so ?
Yes. Honestly lol my dad was courtmarshalled for going awol. His defense was he wanted to build a race car. Around the end of vietnam...lol
edit on 8-10-2012 by phroziac because: (no reason given)
The answer to your question is whatever the government says we are protecting you from. Personally I never gave a damn what the reason behind the war
was or is currently. The only thing that ever concerned concerns me was that I signed a contract to perform a service and fulfilling that obligation
allowed me to support my family.
It sounds like you've been talking to some wanna be heroes that think everyone should praise them for wearing a uniform. They turn my stomach almost as much as people who rant about what I should be doing as a soldier or the cowards that proclaim "the vets should rise up against the government".
It sounds like you've been talking to some wanna be heroes that think everyone should praise them for wearing a uniform. They turn my stomach almost as much as people who rant about what I should be doing as a soldier or the cowards that proclaim "the vets should rise up against the government".
Originally posted by watchitburn
Sure a lot of the guys buy the crap that is being fed to them by MSM. But you also have to remember. That people do what they do. Carpenters build stuff, artists create art, and soldiers fight battles.Just because the reasons are BS or you disagree with it, those guys are not going to stop doing what they do.
I would never and never have contract myself out if I didn't feel ethical about the contract that was being presented to me . These soldiers are not being forced to go I am sure they have to sign and enlist for deployment this isn't ww1 or ww2 we haven't been drafted. Perhaps I am wrong about how one gets to serve over seas in America or allied nations on this so called war effort but here in Canada that is how it works.
I agree with you I think everyone is trying to survive and the people of the region too.
But no one is out there trying to kill civilians, they are over their trying to survive.
reply to post by freedomSlave
As a veteran of Gulf War 1, I believe can speak for my brothers/sisters in arms (at least in part). It really doesn't matter what answer we give you're still going to have issues with it simply because people like you don't understand what believing in something truly means. By that I mean, believing in something to the degree you're willing to stand up, and face it head on and be willing to lay down your life for it. It doesn't matter if what you believe is popular or understood by others. What matters is it's something you believe it so deeply you are willing to leave your family, friends and everything you know because you believe you can make a difference.
Until you do that, you'll never understand what true commitment is, therefore the answer to your question really doesn't matter because it's the question itself that's irrelevent.
I'm sure you'll reply to my post with some BS about what you believe, why those in the Military are stupid/mindless robots doing a job for the uber elite and not saving any one from anything...and to be totally honest, I could care less what you rant...it's circular logic that only suits your delusion of intelligence.
I can only say in closing that your thread begs the quote, "...OUR existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives....WE use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. WE have neither the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves to a person who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom WE provide, then questions the manner in which WE provide it! WE'D rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, WE suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, WE don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!"
To my brothers/sisters in arms - God Speed/Semper Fi - *Salute*
As a veteran of Gulf War 1, I believe can speak for my brothers/sisters in arms (at least in part). It really doesn't matter what answer we give you're still going to have issues with it simply because people like you don't understand what believing in something truly means. By that I mean, believing in something to the degree you're willing to stand up, and face it head on and be willing to lay down your life for it. It doesn't matter if what you believe is popular or understood by others. What matters is it's something you believe it so deeply you are willing to leave your family, friends and everything you know because you believe you can make a difference.
Until you do that, you'll never understand what true commitment is, therefore the answer to your question really doesn't matter because it's the question itself that's irrelevent.
I'm sure you'll reply to my post with some BS about what you believe, why those in the Military are stupid/mindless robots doing a job for the uber elite and not saving any one from anything...and to be totally honest, I could care less what you rant...it's circular logic that only suits your delusion of intelligence.
I can only say in closing that your thread begs the quote, "...OUR existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives....WE use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. WE have neither the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves to a person who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom WE provide, then questions the manner in which WE provide it! WE'D rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, WE suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, WE don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!"
To my brothers/sisters in arms - God Speed/Semper Fi - *Salute*
reply to post by freedomSlave
First off OP your way out of line, you act like they have a choice in any of this, your assessment if pure ignorance.
Second, have we had any other majr terrorist attacks since we began fighting in either country? No because all the trained terrorists are busy trying to kill the Americans occupying their homelands, not busy trying to sneak in here to make a statement, which is after all the point of the military right? To keep the fight away from the civies of their home country?
Lastly, your points are valid, but your delivery sucks, maybe work on some tact, so as not to intentionally offend the very people who have volunteered their lives "potentialy" for you so your family won't have to see the effects of war in their front yards. You should probably manifest your obvious anger to the correct party, the politicians that are responsible for all of this in the first place. It isn't the policies of the soldiers that are making everyone mad, and destroying civilians, and burning down countries, soldiers don't choose, they follow orders. Orders are made at the top of the ladder, not the bottom.
Or are you just an idiot?
First off OP your way out of line, you act like they have a choice in any of this, your assessment if pure ignorance.
Second, have we had any other majr terrorist attacks since we began fighting in either country? No because all the trained terrorists are busy trying to kill the Americans occupying their homelands, not busy trying to sneak in here to make a statement, which is after all the point of the military right? To keep the fight away from the civies of their home country?
Lastly, your points are valid, but your delivery sucks, maybe work on some tact, so as not to intentionally offend the very people who have volunteered their lives "potentialy" for you so your family won't have to see the effects of war in their front yards. You should probably manifest your obvious anger to the correct party, the politicians that are responsible for all of this in the first place. It isn't the policies of the soldiers that are making everyone mad, and destroying civilians, and burning down countries, soldiers don't choose, they follow orders. Orders are made at the top of the ladder, not the bottom.
Or are you just an idiot?
Originally posted by jacknast76
Well I gave you a star before I finished reading your racist post. Wish I could take it back. They are over there saving us from the crazy BROWN guys. Also so a turd like yourself can be a racist #.
lol i never knew that replying/ quoting removes the sensor symbols that wasn't a nice word . lol
seriously how was I being racist
reply to post by freedomSlave
You obviously know nothing about which you talk.
" they have to volunteer to go over seas or somthing" ( not your exact quote, but the jist is the same)
No, you sign up for 2 4 or 6 year contracts initially, then they asign you to a unit, that they can change at their pleasure, and they send unikts to war, if yours gets ordered to go, you go. Soldiers have no choice at all of anything, not their bed times, their meal times, their workout schedule anything.
Yes one may volunteer to go , but this is the exception not the rule, only one in thousands volunteers to spend 18 more months away from their families while risking life and limb every hour of every day.
Either your a tool, or you can't read, since this is all widely known and easily avvailable for anyone to know at the asking, you simply choose not to know so you can make retarded posts like these.
You obviously know nothing about which you talk.
" they have to volunteer to go over seas or somthing" ( not your exact quote, but the jist is the same)
No, you sign up for 2 4 or 6 year contracts initially, then they asign you to a unit, that they can change at their pleasure, and they send unikts to war, if yours gets ordered to go, you go. Soldiers have no choice at all of anything, not their bed times, their meal times, their workout schedule anything.
Yes one may volunteer to go , but this is the exception not the rule, only one in thousands volunteers to spend 18 more months away from their families while risking life and limb every hour of every day.
Either your a tool, or you can't read, since this is all widely known and easily avvailable for anyone to know at the asking, you simply choose not to know so you can make retarded posts like these.
reply to post by RecentlyAwaken
well gulf 1 you went in to help Kuwait you were helping that nation . you believed in the cause and it was noble
I just want to know after 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan If the troops still believe in what they are doing . I am just dumb founded why I could never get a response to my question
well gulf 1 you went in to help Kuwait you were helping that nation . you believed in the cause and it was noble
I just want to know after 10 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan If the troops still believe in what they are doing . I am just dumb founded why I could never get a response to my question
reply to post by inverslyproportional
well volunteering is essentially the same as signing a 2 or 4 or 6 year contract , it is the desire of the person to do so
well volunteering is essentially the same as signing a 2 or 4 or 6 year contract , it is the desire of the person to do so
My point was stated simply in a fashion that those that question the weapon for what the shooter does can understand.
Being a West Point grad, I know a bit about ethics, morality, and combat command. These men and women do a tough job, one that very few actually understand. They fight, bleed, and die to protect us from what the powers at be tell them to fight against. When you question their ethics, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, problems do happen, situations devolve into a pure mess. Yet I question you who question them for following an order given by their boss, how would you react when the bullets start flying?
They believe in the constitution, they believe in the command structure, they have to believe in these things to shoot at another individual. They do not kill for pleasure or money, they kill because they believe it is the right thing to do for the greater good. If a solider, any soldier does not believe in the cause they stand behind, the battle is lost before it begins. Duty, Honor, Country.
It is easy to arm chair quarterback the senate, or the president, yet unless you know what it is like to see your peer or worse, your soldiers shot and killed; you cannot begin to preach to them. Debate with them all you want, but they again are trying to defend an order given to them by their lawfully elected government. You have a problem with that government, vote them out. However, until then, do not take it out on men and women that i know will stand beside us against them when they finally do cross that constitutional line. And it will be those individuals who love freedom to the point of death that will make a stand not beside us but in front of us to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. While your private contractors and corrupt police are taking constant actions to limit your freedoms.
Remember who is there defending and not taking.
Being a West Point grad, I know a bit about ethics, morality, and combat command. These men and women do a tough job, one that very few actually understand. They fight, bleed, and die to protect us from what the powers at be tell them to fight against. When you question their ethics, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, problems do happen, situations devolve into a pure mess. Yet I question you who question them for following an order given by their boss, how would you react when the bullets start flying?
They believe in the constitution, they believe in the command structure, they have to believe in these things to shoot at another individual. They do not kill for pleasure or money, they kill because they believe it is the right thing to do for the greater good. If a solider, any soldier does not believe in the cause they stand behind, the battle is lost before it begins. Duty, Honor, Country.
It is easy to arm chair quarterback the senate, or the president, yet unless you know what it is like to see your peer or worse, your soldiers shot and killed; you cannot begin to preach to them. Debate with them all you want, but they again are trying to defend an order given to them by their lawfully elected government. You have a problem with that government, vote them out. However, until then, do not take it out on men and women that i know will stand beside us against them when they finally do cross that constitutional line. And it will be those individuals who love freedom to the point of death that will make a stand not beside us but in front of us to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. While your private contractors and corrupt police are taking constant actions to limit your freedoms.
Remember who is there defending and not taking.
edit on 8-10-2012 by pointr97 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Rastus3663
The answer to your question is whatever the government says we are protecting you from. Personally I never gave a damn what the reason behind the war was or is currently. The only thing that ever concerned concerns me was that I signed a contract to perform a service and fulfilling that obligation allowed me to support my family.
It sounds like you've been talking to some wanna be heroes that think everyone should praise them for wearing a uniform. They turn my stomach almost as much as people who rant about what I should be doing as a soldier or the cowards that proclaim "the vets should rise up against the government".
Ok but do you really feel that you are saving the western world from terrorism when random acts of violence that can be classified as terrorism happen all the time in our home countries?
Originally posted by pointr97
My point was stated simply in a fashion that those that question the weapon for what the shooter does can understand.
Being a West Point grad, I know a bit about ethics, morality, and combat command. These men and women do a tough job, one that very few actually understand. They fight, bleed, and die to protect us from what the powers at be tell them to fight against. When you question their ethics, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, problems do happen, situations devolve into a pure mess. Yet I question you who question them for following an order given by their boss, how would you react when the bullets start flying?
They believe in the constitution, they believe in the command structure, they have to believe in these things to shoot at another individual. They do not kill for pleasure or money, they kill because they believe it is the right thing to do for the greater good. If a solider, any soldier does not believe in the cause they stand behind, the battle is lost before it begins. Duty, Honor, Country.
It is easy to arm chair quarterback the senate, or the president, yet unless you know what it is like to see your peer or worse, your soldiers shot and killed; you cannot begin to preach to them. Debate with them all you want, but they again are trying to defend an order given to them by their lawfully elected government. You have a problem with that government, vote them out. However, until then, do not take it out on men and women that i know will stand beside us against them when they finally do cross that constitutional line. And it will be those individuals who love freedom to the point of death that will make a stand not beside us but in front of us to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. While your private contractors and corrupt police are taking constant actions to limit your freedoms.
Remember who is there defending and not taking.edit on 8-10-2012 by pointr97 because: (no reason given)
ww1 ww2 I would of signed up draft or I agree and can justify these wars . Maybe I am wrong about how your military work when troops are being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan . are they being forced to go because your government is at war if I am wrong tell me . As I said in my OP no one has flat out answered the question what are we being saved from when we cant even avoid home grown terrorism . I just feel this is a pointless front for war .
reply to post by freedomSlave
No OP, it is the desire of the patriot volunteering to serve their nation, to do somthing meaningful that will benefit all Americans, because they are selfless, not selfserving.
They didn't volunteer to go to any other country to do anything.
They volunteered to beready to defend their nation from attack, as once we are attacked and the coastal cities with millions each are already burning to the ground, it is to late to train an army for months, so you can defend them.
Soldiers must be trained before they are needed, not after.
By your scewed logic, all police should be trained to serve and protect only after someone calls 911, well guess what, by then it is too late. Just as firemen are necessary before a fire starts not after, and sergeans are necessary before a car accident happens not after, so are trained soldiers necessary before we have foreign troops ravaging our lands.
You sir a just trolling, as nothing you have said or asked at any time has even a cursory amount on informed thought put into it.
No OP, it is the desire of the patriot volunteering to serve their nation, to do somthing meaningful that will benefit all Americans, because they are selfless, not selfserving.
They didn't volunteer to go to any other country to do anything.
They volunteered to beready to defend their nation from attack, as once we are attacked and the coastal cities with millions each are already burning to the ground, it is to late to train an army for months, so you can defend them.
Soldiers must be trained before they are needed, not after.
By your scewed logic, all police should be trained to serve and protect only after someone calls 911, well guess what, by then it is too late. Just as firemen are necessary before a fire starts not after, and sergeans are necessary before a car accident happens not after, so are trained soldiers necessary before we have foreign troops ravaging our lands.
You sir a just trolling, as nothing you have said or asked at any time has even a cursory amount on informed thought put into it.
Originally posted by freedomSlave
Originally posted by pointr97
My point was stated simply in a fashion that those that question the weapon for what the shooter does can understand.
Being a West Point grad, I know a bit about ethics, morality, and combat command. These men and women do a tough job, one that very few actually understand. They fight, bleed, and die to protect us from what the powers at be tell them to fight against. When you question their ethics, put yourself in their shoes. Yes, problems do happen, situations devolve into a pure mess. Yet I question you who question them for following an order given by their boss, how would you react when the bullets start flying?
They believe in the constitution, they believe in the command structure, they have to believe in these things to shoot at another individual. They do not kill for pleasure or money, they kill because they believe it is the right thing to do for the greater good. If a solider, any soldier does not believe in the cause they stand behind, the battle is lost before it begins. Duty, Honor, Country.
It is easy to arm chair quarterback the senate, or the president, yet unless you know what it is like to see your peer or worse, your soldiers shot and killed; you cannot begin to preach to them. Debate with them all you want, but they again are trying to defend an order given to them by their lawfully elected government. You have a problem with that government, vote them out. However, until then, do not take it out on men and women that i know will stand beside us against them when they finally do cross that constitutional line. And it will be those individuals who love freedom to the point of death that will make a stand not beside us but in front of us to protect us from enemies both foreign and domestic. While your private contractors and corrupt police are taking constant actions to limit your freedoms.
Remember who is there defending and not taking.edit on 8-10-2012 by pointr97 because: (no reason given)
ww1 ww2 I would of signed up draft or I agree and can justify these wars . Maybe I am wrong about how your military work when troops are being deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan . are they being forced to go because your government is at war if I am wrong tell me . As I said in my OP no one has flat out answered the question what are we being saved from when we cant even avoid home grown terrorism . I just feel this is a pointless front for war .
The wars are quick sand, they started as an emotional response to exact justify for what happened those many years ago. We were first in afghanistan, I think most have forgotten that was were we started after 9/11 and it was almost demanded by the american public. Iraq, as most of us here can agree, was a smoke and mirror show, yet when an edict of war is given....The troops are required to obey, and yes, some troops and officers disagree with it. Yet, the choice of where to go and who to fight as an enemy is not within their power if it is a lawful order. Both engagements over the last decade have obviously spun down the toilet, but it is not the troops decision to go or stay. However, their current role is not to engage as much as it is to protect their troops and each other.
It is not the soldiers that are currently engaging as much as it is they are playing a defensive operation, responding to hostile fire as it comes on them. They know it is time to come home, but the order has not yet been given, so like like the soldiers in the trenches of WWI, we stand until ordered to do something else. They were ordered to hold the lines, and so they dug and they dug and they died.
There is no point any more and anyone that knows the history of warfare in Afghanistan will tell you, no invading force has ever succeeded. However, our soldiers, marines and sailors have not been ordered home yet, so they stand their ground.
edit on 8-10-2012 by pointr97 because: (no reason
given)
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