Top neurosurgeon 'spent six days in heaven' during a coma

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


Heaven is a religious concept.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by SpaceMonkeys

 

Heaven is a religious concept.

So some guy has what he claims to be a near death experience where he finds himself in a blissful, peaceful place unlike anything he has experienced before.
What word should he use which best describes in lehmans terms where he went which would give his culture the best idea of what it was like?

reply to post by CaptainBeno


I believe him. And that sounds like a beautiful place.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
From the article:

His forthcoming book

Book? so he has actual proof of an afterlife, and instead of sharing this freely on the net, and altering the entire worlds view...
he wants to cash in.

Guess heaven has gotten lax in its messaging.

Anyhow, in a dream, you can live a week in a few minutes before waking up.

Mom had a NDE...and she didn't see streaming transparent people..she seen solid people, and she wasn't in fluffy cloudville..she was on a beach. So..ya.

But by all means, read the book.

"Book? so he has actual proof of an afterlife, and instead of sharing this freely on the net, and altering the entire worlds view...
he wants to cash in."

This is a hell of a kick a$$ point, sorry for the slang
When you have read a lot on the net, especially ufo, people seeing Jesus and heaven etc. The REAL legitimate ones seem to stand out even further than the MONEY ones. Testimonies by people that didn't make money, not saying the ones that write a book and get famous are not legitimate but people like Gary Wilcox that had great character and didn't make a dime about seeing and speaking to two martians. James Padgett to me deserves much respect in my opinion, yes he was a medium but he didn't make a dime off his communications with Jesus. But not so with all the famous religions of the world today. Tons of pastors all over the world survive off of Jesus-Payola. Not really saying that is bad, but to me James Padgett had a job, he was a laywer in Washington DC. He did mediumship on the side. But no money! And that was the one Jesus selected as his chosen. At least from what I gather.

In the LDS religion (Romney's) faith. Sure there is a goodness in living a clean life, but ever sense Joseph Smith started the church it reeked of money, money, money and more money. Joseph parents were desperately poor and he even tried to sell the copyright when the book of mormon came out. Joseph Smith was arrested for glass looking (looking through a stone in a hat and telling people that there is gold etc. Which he never found). Let alone no book of mormon dna, artifacts etc.

Though I am not a fan of most mediums. I do think that James Padgett was an interesting character in that beings would come to him through automatic writing and would describe their condition be it a darker type place which they seem to be in distress or a lighter place in the highest realm like Jesus. And the ones in the darker place would seem incredibly impressed about the immense light that was surrounding James Padgett though he couldn't see it. And it seemed to be Jesus and his appointed apostles etc.

Or Gary Wilcox, spotted an oval craft and out comes two martians, it happened April 24th, 1964 on a New York farm. But he NEVER made money off it, even his brother never accepted money he was offered to tell his brothers story. And he was deemed sane and great character by doctors etc.

So when I see testimonies of heaven I have to give the thumbs up to people that do not make a dime off it and don't plan to as James Padgett - Jesus communication. Gary Wilcox - seeing martians.

It seems like there is a pattern in the world that ufo's seem to go secular, to individual, such as on farms etc. Like at ATS, somebody posted about a guy experiencing beings on his farm in Poland. He had a large bolder with an inscription dedicated to him after he died. Again individual contact and NO MONEY.

To me wether it be heaven, Jesus or ufo's, a PATTERN emerges. The ones that are a cut above the rest are the no-payola ones, and contact on a (one on one) basis. Some of you out there must understand this, because I sure see a pattern big-time!
Thanks for the post!

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


It sounds to me like he had a wonderful dream. I've had them before but a dream is exactly what they are. Not heaven.

If you are referring to heaven as a place you really enjoy, for example floating on a pool with a beer in your hand. I agree but I think he actually believes he died and went to religious heaven which we know is non existant.

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by SpaceMonkeys

 

It sounds to me like he had a wonderful dream. I've had them before but a dream is exactly what they are. Not heaven.

If you are referring to heaven as a place you really enjoy, for example floating on a pool with a beer in your hand. I agree but I think he actually believes he died and went to religious heaven which we know is non existant.

Actually the guy tried to debunk it by thinking of any logical reasons he could have had a vision while brain dead, after all he is a neurosurgeon.

Could it still have been a dream? Maybe so even though he tried to come up with reasonable explanations of how it could be possible in his current state of brain death.

But who are you to judge him what are your credentials and education? And whats your proof it was a dream?

Oh whats that? Its just another useless opinion based on squat?

It was just a dream I say!! So that makes it so cause i said so.. LOL the egotism in this thread is mountains high.

reply to post by hellbjorn012


Well we know he didn't go to heaven don't we!

Originally posted by DarthFazer

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
My take. He's a neurosurgeon. he fell into a coma, he woke up from said coma and described somthing extrordinary to say the lest. Nerosurgeon + coma+ extrordinary story about he's been to heaven+ wrote a book about it all === A whole lot of money from book sales. Not to mention the speaking circuit and the book tour, means big dollars and all the while he's making that money, he sure is'nt putting that malpractice insurance to use.

When i come to ATS and someone is making a out of this world claim seems 9 times out of 10 there is a book involved when someone experiences a UFO or a ghost or in this case a NDE. They have to write a book. Because when something unexplained happens people are transformed in to an author or writer

died came back to help humanity ...must write a book... must make money

Now i am leaning toward huckster, go figure

edit on 9-10-2012 by DarthFazer because: (no reason given)

I see where your are going with this but I don't understand the knee jerk reaction because someone wants to capitalize on an experience they had. I for one would do it as well. It's easy to character assassinate someone for capitalizing on something for whatever reason but that's just a blanket argument that you could apply to anyone.

Forget a second that he's making money off of his experience. Does that invalidate the experience? If you think it does, then what you are really saying is he is a liar - made up the entire thing - to write a book about it and reap in cash, based on a fraudulent claim.

Except in this case he isn't making it up. He has medical records, EEG's, MRI's and a team of docotors to vouch that he was brain dead for six or seven days. He *could* be making up the NDE - but why? Most people after coming out of a coma are happy just to be alive and well again.

No, I think all these posts trying to assassinate the good Dr. for simply trying to capitalize on his experience are misleading and detracting from the main point which is that this guy had an amazing experience and we should be discussing THE EXPERIENCE and not the fact he's trying to make some money.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by zeeon

Originally posted by kurthall
reply to post by zeeon

 

I don't care how smart the guy is....A dream Is a dream! 5 min of dreaming can seem like forever!

Except the part of the brain that provides "Dreams" (The cortex) was completely inactive.
How do you explain that?

After his coma and before he completely woke up, his brain was working more normally. It is that time that the brain could have constructed a dream.

Or maybe that part of his brain was "completely inactive" only in the sense that our science can understand/detect.

edit on 10/9/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

While it could be true that we were simply unable to detect some minute brain activity in the Dr. as of right now that's just speculation. Why not discuss the actual experience? I mean come on ATS'ers - this guy is a NEUROSURGEON - how much more of a credible witness do you people want!?!?!

Seriously - everyone gets so caught up trying to disprove or discredit people that they forget to even address what the man is talking about. What if Heaven is real? This Dr. is basically saying Heaven is the real deal. That he went there and it was almost as the bible describes it. Let's talk about his experience rather than try to discredit the guy.

reply to post by zeeon


They are also conveniently forgetting that he was probably making far more as a neurosurgeon than he will ever make with this book.
Or that writing about such things might curtail his professional career, thereby reducing his potential earnings.

Besides, he's already told the gist of his experience, free of charge.
And you can always go and borrow the book, instead of buying it.

Originally posted by Vanitas
reply to post by zeeon

 

They are also conveniently forgetting that he was probably making far more as a neurosurgeon than he will ever make with this book.
Or that writing about such things might curtail his professional career, thereby reducing his potential earnings.

Besides, he's already told the gist of his experience, free of charge.
And you can always go and borrow the book, instead of buying it.

That's also a great point. What do the naysayers have for motive? The Dr. is already wealthy. You can't use debt as a motive. Greed? Maybe...but that's a blanket motive that almost anyone can fit under - need to be more specific then that.

Also the points above that you mentioned - alot of his colleagues are going to look at him and sneer now..."your one of those people". Who LIKES to attract that sort of attention to themselves? I know I don't.

I'm intrigued by the guys experience. I had an OOB experience once. It was pretty amazing. It wasn't a NDE but I believe these sorts of things happen. I also think that Heaven is what you want it to be. Why would God force you to a "Heaven" that isn't custom tailed to YOUR LIKING. Does that make much sense? If God is a personal God, then it stands to logically reason that Heaven would also be personal (and not template like...a mall for instance (unless your perfect heaven is a mall))

As somewhat of an agnostic I find this mans experience pretty amazing. It makes me stop and think for a second what if this heaven and hell thing is real?

Also the points above that you mentioned - alot of his colleagues are going to look at him and sneer now..."your one of those people". Who LIKES to attract that sort of attention to themselves? I know I don't.

Yes, but it's not only about unwelcome attention. He could actually be ostracised by his colleagues, with grave repercussions for his job (and therefore his earnings).
Look at what happened to Jacques Benveniste. He was hailed as a great scientist... until he made the life-altering "mistake" of looking into homeopathy seriously, as a scientist, and publishing his finds.
He went from hero to zero and died disgraced (in the eyes of his colleagues, that is).

It's not exactly the same here, of course, but publishing such things is always perilous, professionally, in circles that are so orthodox-minded. They could doubt his sanity, which for a neurosurgeon is tantamount to a professional death sentence.

And let's not forget what he said: that he 'understood that science never could and never will be able to understand' the greater reality of life. (My paraphrase.)

It's hardly what orthodox-minded scientists want to hear.

I'm intrigued by the guys experience. I had an OOB experience once. It was pretty amazing. It wasn't a NDE but I believe these sorts of things happen. I also think that Heaven is what you want it to be. Why would God force you to a "Heaven" that isn't custom tailed to YOUR LIKING. Does that make much sense? If God is a personal God, then it stands to logically reason that Heaven would also be personal (and not template like...a mall for instance (unless your perfect heaven is a mall)) As somewhat of an agnostic I find this mans experience pretty amazing. It makes me stop and think for a second what if this heaven and hell thing is real?

I forgot to address the most important part of your post...

It's impossible to know for certain, of course, but I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on this.
I think - or rather, I feel (based on personal experience) - that "heaven" is indeed a highly personal, custom-made, tailored reality that you fashion yourself during your lifetime - specifically through the "subtle heart", as the Sufis called it. (And joy is the signal post that leads to it. :-))

Just because it cannot usually be seen with our earthly eyes it doesn't mean it's any less REAL.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
He's a neurosurgeon, which means he studies extensively the mind and its affects and coma's and so forth.
Id say he's studied it so much it was the first thing his brain thought of when it went into default!
Heaven?... its a mental thing. His mind just went to its own interpretation of heaven!

That would sound good but his mind was shut down! He was being monitered for brain activity! If he was able to think without any electrical activity in is neocortex then this could have only happened outside his physical body!
Though noone can know for sure either way except for what we know deep in our hearts! What do you know outside the nagging of your mind?

reply to post by Vanitas


Exactly! There are so many things we can't see with our eyes but we have found to exist.
Molecules, Atoms, Nuclear forces, Magnetic Forces...we only know of these things because we have successfully been able to measure them - not really see them with our own two eyes. (atleast when they were discovered).

Posters here are so quick to believe in Aliens, Ghosts and all sorts of other paranormal stuff - but dang when it comes to "Heaven" or "Hell" or anything with a relgious tone posters all jump in the hate / discredit bandwagon. This coming from an Agnostic like myself!

I for one totally agree with you and I'm going to purchase this mans book and read it. I think he had a life changing experience and I'd like to know more about it!

I am a barber and over the years, my customers have told me stories of out of body experiences when they died for a few minutes, many seeing the light or dead relatives in the scenario. I firmly believe there is an afterlife I once had an out of body experience. I saw an angel and went to an old house and flew up through the house. I wasn’t trying to have an out of body experience it just happened. It was beautiful and euphoric and since it happened in the early 90’s I have no fear of death…

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


Maybe if he was not a neurosurgeon. They tend to make enough cash to not have to worry about what you are suggesting.

reply to post by GafferUK1981



Funny that you mention this. Believing in a God has nothing to do with religion. In fact, a report was release yesterday that said more and more Americans are not affiliating with a given religion, but still believe in God and consider themselves spiritual, including praying every day.

Religion has nothing to do with that. Religion is a man made order, designed to make people follow rules. God is everyone and all of us. Big difference.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


I was intrigued until I came across the line "his forthcoming book...."

No thanks. Money is the clear motive here.

I don't doubt his claim about going to a place of puffy clouds, after all, it was his NDE. I think we all have a different path in life and it takes us to different places. Maybe all the things we do in life decides what level you end up on. Be kind of boring if everybody came back with the same experience, Yeah, I died and met mom. pfffft.