Top neurosurgeon 'spent six days in heaven' during a coma

reply to post by luciddream


Try explaining that to your average atheist!

When I do, they automatically gawk and say, "so you lean towards being a deist".

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by dominicus

 

Hold on, Hold on.. are you mixing spirituality with belief in god? like its exclusive to religious?

Did you know you An Atheist can be spiritual? without believing in a deity? Most Atheist are spiritual.

edit: these anomalies does not make "god" true.

edit on 10/9/2012 by luciddream because: (no reason given)

Yes i know an athiest can be spiritual w/o believing in a diety. Label it spiritual humanism or atheist spirituality or whatever you want, however believe has nothing to do whether or not God exists.

What im saying is that regardless of what you label yourself as, if you seriously take up any kind or form of serious spirituality, and really penetrate the depths of your inner self and reality in general, you will eventually come across an infinite beingness, consciousness, etc.

Belief or no belief, if its there its there.

Originally posted by reppie

Originally posted by chasingbrahman

Originally posted by sgspecial19
I get chills from reading the article; he is absolutely right consciousness does exist outside the body. When I meditate, I leave my physical senses behind and reach a state of consciousness where I am no longer limited to my body. The environment around me IS me, and there is a feeling of all knowing.

Actually, this is because the part of your brain's neocortex responsible for determining where you end and the rest of the world begins goes night-night during deep meditation. It leaves one feels deeply connected to the air surrounding them. I've experienced this during meditation, and it's extremely powerful.

Could you tell me how you did it?

I wish I could say that I did it alone, but I didn't. I bought a CD of Andrew Weil's titled "Sound Body, Sound Mind". After studying sound, Weil became aware of its impact on brain waves, then worked with some professionals in the field to develop [some really beautiful] music that would facilitate the transition from one brainwave pattern to another. Anyhoo, the first time I did it, this happened, and then I began researching which part of the brain was responsible for making us aware of where we end and the rest of the world begins, and that this part of the brain "goes to sleep" each time our brain experiences delta wave patterns. I just popped in the CD, layed on the floor in a comfortable position, and went on one heck of a trip! PM me if you have any more questions about this - I don't want to derail this thread!

reply to post by dominicus


You make too much assumptions and use circular logic.

It's like me saying, : but if you reach even further into yourself, you find this conception of God is but a projection of your superego and a coping mechanism for this fragile existence we each share.

These are OUR conclusions, not any one else's.

Originally posted by buster2010
Sorry but his word isn't proof. His visions could have been nothing more than the pineal gland becoming active after his brain shut down.

That argument always bothers me just like the '___' one. It's like finding out the mechanism behind it somehow disproves it. My light bulb turns on because I hit the switch. Just because I know that my finger hitting the switch makes it turn on, doesn't negate the fact that it is on.

sometimes all the facts in the world , add up to nothing .

that's why 6 billion people alive today , believe in

... God .

now looking forward to some more interesting revelations
from the dark masquerade called science

reply to post by Moneyisgodlifeisrented


I am an avid minecrafter, but on the xbox version (we finally get glass panes this week!). I am familiar with Creative (we also get that this week), but am only accustomed to playing on Survival. But I duplicate blocks like crazy.

My view: i spend my entire waking life scrounging for resources to build a life from. It isn't a game to me. Once I et full access to Creative mode, I doubt I will ever do Survival mode again. I play for the creative aspects (it is another medium of art to me)

Having said that, what you say is true: humans tend to get like Conan, at the end, sitting on his throne looking fully defeated by his own greatness. That boredom....that is always thrown up as the juxtaposition for godhood or for immortaility.

Problem is, we just don't know. As humans we have a mindset that is part and parcel to our biology. Without that biology, how would we know what our mindset is? Perhaps we would revel in an eternity of observation? Or interaction? Or maybe, like a dog being scratched by its owner, there is a being that we just revel is being in the presence of? You are touching on the purpose of existence of our ethereal being. And it is an interesting discussion. But, being the wet blanket I am, I have to remind you that it is all supposition based on guesses.

Was there no brain activity until the moment he opened his eyes and awoke? I've had dreams that seemed to last for days, but was only asleep 10 minutes. Maybe, as his brain regained activity, he dreamt.

Originally posted by moniesisfun
reply to post by dominicus

 

You make too much assumptions and use circular logic.

It's like me saying, : but if you reach even further into yourself, you find this conception of God is but a projection of your superego and a coping mechanism for this fragile existence we each share.

These are OUR conclusions, not any one else's.

It don't work that way. The experiences i speak of, happen prior to what the mind thinks of them. They circumvent the mind and completely shatter any bias. In fact many philosophies and mystical blueprints the world over, speak of 1 of the ways of getting "there", is to let go of all preconceived notions and relative programming.

These experiences destroyed not only all previous positions of atheism/agnosticism, but also crumbled what I thought religions and spirituality is all about. Its utterly ineffable.

There is no concept or projection or coping mechanism in what I speak of because this ineffable Beingness is experienced prior to any of that

Originally posted by Unity_99
As much as it may not be accepted by some, it will reach far more people if its published in a book, (and in a monied world he gets paid for this) and then later comes out in low cost kindle, and free pdf form, than if its just a document kicking around online.

Very true and besides, do you really think a long-practicing neuro-surgeon has any need at all to "cash in"? His story is already on the web, so let's not say he hasn't freely talked about this for some time--for free. And the man already has plenty of money.

Books are a crap shoot. This one will retail for $15.99, The wholesale price will be in the neighborhood of $8.79. Amazon will sell it for $9.59 and make a profit. The author will get a 10-12% royalty on the wholesale price, maybe 88 cents a book. If it reaches bestseller status at 100,000 books he'll make less than $100,000. He probably makes three or four times that much per year as a neurosurgeon. Taxes will take a third of that. Sure it's a nice chunk of change, about enough to buy a nice luxury automobile if he chips in. A nice BMW, but still not enough for a Mercedes S class. To claim his main motivation is to "cash in" under these circumstances really isn't credible.

I also get a kick out of these superficial objections. "Oh, it's his pineal gland." "Oh, he had pre-conceived notions of what he would see." "Oh, it's just DMZ." Here this guy is a neurosurgeon. You think he hasn't thought of this stuff? You think he doesn't know how the brain works just a tad bit better than you do? Do you actually believe you are being "insightful" here? Or are you whistling past the graveyard determined to explain his experience away by any method necessary to maintain your own worldview?

Y'all are accusing him of being delusional. I think you have it backwards.

reply to post by Phess

Yes, because I would trust someone to do a self analysis.

this is really interesting...NDE"S I remember reading about a hospital that tried to test this theory by putting an object way high up where only someone who left their body would be able to see it....they would get the details from people with these experience and see if they mentioned the object.

not to derail the thread, but related to the subject... what about people who have NDE"s that are unpleasant and what we would refer to as hell????there was a study and about 100 out of 700 cases were of this type (my link says about 15%) what are we to make of these?

iands.org...

The best thing with this kind of experience is that anyone can do it. This is actually one topic on ATS where we dont have to sit around and judge the credibility of others. Are they telling the truth? What is that blurry picture really showing? How likely is it that this guy is telling the truth? And so on.

Unfortunantly ATS prohibits discussions about the methods, so all I can say is that anyone can do it, and if you want to know how, you can research how the Peruvian Shamans are doing it. Hopefully that doesnt break any rules on ATS.

Its slightly embarressing seeing people in this thread talk about out of body experiences as something you imagine or something your brain makes up. If only you knew guys. If only.

Society is supressing this knowledge for a reason. So you stay inside the little box, and dont get any ideas about being more than a consumer of goods and services.

Just because he's neurosurgeon doesn't mean his experience is proof of heaven. I'm sure he will sell a lot of books and do the talk show circuit promoting it. Not to suggest he made it up, the publishers would have approached him. They know they have a best seller with this story. As he claims, he thinks he is the first on these two points:

"But as far as I know, no one before me has ever traveled to this dimension (a) while their cortex was completely shut down, and (b) while their body was under minute medical observation, as mine was for the full seven days of my coma."
.

The vision he saw was created by his own mind with his brain not functioning as it should and who knows what medicine might have influenced it. Not to mention what meningitis infection does. Coma is a trance state and in a trance one could enter into otherworldly realms.. People can be very convinced they went somewhere.

His vision or whatever you want to call it sounds very childlike to me. The arcing transparent beings that leave streaks across the sky are right out of children's or sci if movies. The clouds are nothing more than how heaven is depicted in Philadelphia cream cheese commercials or movies. The suggestions of how heaven appears have already been implanted in his brain. Not enough is known about how the brain works even if he thinks he does know. He's experienced a trance state, and being that he found out afterwards he was on life support most likely influenced his belief they his trance was a visit to heaven.

His experience is told Here

reply to post by CaptainBeno

"I was in a place of clouds. Big, puffy, pink-white ones that showed up sharply against the deep blue-black sky," he wrote in an article for Newsweek. He also goes on to describe "Flocks of transparent, shimmering beings arced across the sky, leaving long, streamer-like lines behind them."

Sounds pretty.... boring, really. Who the hell wants to live for eternity in clouds??? That cannot be the afterlife, surely??

How dull.. How mundane...

No, I think this was a "personal" internal experience that his mind gave him during his coma. And by no means simple - from the sounds of it his brain was effectively shut down. So it only gives more reason for us to study this incredible organ!

Originally posted by violet
. People can be very convinced they went somewhere.

You mean like you are convinced they didnt, reading about it on ATS and having no experience with it?

Our conciousness is not local inside the body to begin with. See my previous post. You can do this yourself. So just do it and come back and tell us what you saw. There is simply no way you will think its inside your brain after having done it.

And if you dont want to do it, I think its only fair that you dont try and tell people what they are experiencing.

I truly want you to try this. The sceptics are the most fun to listen to afterwards. "This is impossible!"... eh, no its not. You have been told it is, which is a completely different thing.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


If you guys want to watch the documentary Through The Worm Hole talks a lot about his experience.
www.youtube.com...

What I find super cool on the neurosurgeon blog is that all of the comments from other doctors are all open minded and accepting. The PHD on the first page of this thread was also willing to accept the possibility and is totally hyped about it.

Yet on ATS, with the vast majority of our members not holding PHDs, I'm seeing all sorts of skepticism. A lot of it comes in the form of proudly declaring the catalyst of these journeys as if it somehow negates the experience.

Why is it that neurosurgeons can see that observing the cause does nothing to change the outcome but many non-doctors can't? Just seems backwards from what I normally see with science vs non-scientist.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by milkyway12

 

who said what in the where now?
Never said I was an expert, that was just my opinion.

Something wrong with me thinking for myself out loud instead of believing this clieche '' near death '' experience story by a man wanting to sell a book?

heaven in my mind doesn't exist as a place people gather (or souls)
heaven in my mind is what your personal belief is, therefore when you die, your mind wanders to that piece of memory you always allocated for 'heaven'

People are allowed their own versions of heaven, so why are you having a go at me for stating how i think it works?

edit on 8-10-2012 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

I've always thought this to. Why can't we have our own versions of heaven? Your heaven may be hell for me lol therefore it wouldn't be heaven! I still sure hope there is one but I still wish every day for me and my loved ones to have a long happy healthy life. That is all I want in this world...I'm not much of a materialistic person. When I have money I want to spend it on experiences not on material things.

Originally posted by chelle21689

I've always thought this to. Why can't we have our own versions of heaven? Your heaven may be hell for me lol therefore it wouldn't be heaven!

Hah! I know what you mean. For example, the Christian version of heaven is this city made with colors I don't like, with rules I don't like, it's forever bright as hell, it never gets dark, and you are "promised a fulfilling days work every day".

That sounds terrible!