Pondering Hope

reply to post by Iamschist

No problem...Galad knows many things, even much more crazier things then that, and even the numbers of chaos Galad knows, I wrote them down somewhere. I just forgot were.

But anyways, if you take anything out of my post its that when in doubt and something or somebody bothers you, always keep a fish in handy and slap a fool with it to wake them up from there stupor. Even if that fool just happens to be you, then you must slap yourself with a fish. Its totally like a proven method of waking anybody up.

"Proven by who?" you would ask...."You don't want to know"....I would respond.

And have yourself a Happy Halloween.

People think that hope is all that any of us have left to hold on to.

What is hope?
Is it that tomorrow you will find instant happiness and the answer to life? Of course we can all find the answer to life immediately after you figure out a 1000 things to do with a ball of string.....Some people could find the answer to life in a roll of toilet paper, others will look in vain until they are dead.

What is being looked for when you have hope?

Is hope an excuse to not change how you live? I find that when I am thirsty, I take a drink. I don't 'Hope' a drink comes my way. When you break through one thing, don't be content. Evolve and look higher, you have nothing to lose. Hope can't be lost. It doesn't exactly exist, nor can it exactly be gotten rid of.....

Is there a logic in hope?
Life exists. It just is or it just isn't.
It's up to you to control your life by discovering it. Living in every day of it, with just a whisp of the future, being content to wake up daily.

Is it the denial of self understanding that leads to the need for hope?
LIVE your own dreams daily rather than suffering through hope or hopelessness. Sometimes they can be the same thing. Is hopeless and hope two sides of the same coin?

I have held on to "hope" and "hopelessness". We are all human. A couple of years ago, I thought I lost it. My sister slapped me round a bit "Quit bitching. Life is a blank canvas, paint your happy picture yourself, " I was too busy being a self-absorbed miserable wench to see I held the brush, and the canvas was blank before me.

Stress, anger, grief can belt you up quite a bit, pretty much knock the very breath out of you. Out of all the amazing things in this world you may have noticed you are a human, and having that on your side, you have the power to overcome all things. We're taught that we have limitations yet nothing is impossible, most of us just limit ourselves to fixating on the concept of IMpossible.

Losing hope is just giving into fear.

When you step out of the prison of fear, you realise, you were never actually locked in, your whole life , there was no lock. In your inner heart, you know when you are lying to yourself, and when you are not.

You're a beautiful human who can love, learn, feel & has opinions. We never seem to ponder on the miraculous nature that we exist.

So I ask you, what is hope? What don't you have, that you need to "hope" for.

Live out your imagination. Its fun.
Be fearless by facing fears.
Love the people close to you. Take care of them, and yourself in equal measure.

Much Love Zazz

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Thank you for your reply. I was thinking about hope philosophically. Many who answered took it to mean I was becoming hopeless. In Zen philosophy the practitioner seeks to rid themselves of attachments, caring about outcomes, and rise above the push pull of emotions to neutrality. This is more what I had in mind when I wrote the thread.

Hope can contribute to keeping you stuck. In part of your reply you say:

Live out your imagination. Its fun. Be fearless by facing fears. Love the people close to you. Take care of them, and yourself in equal measure.

In order to do that, I have to be willing to move forward, sometimes being in a state of hope, I am not facing reality, I am stuck wishing for circumstances to be as they were or as I want them to be, not as they are. In a way you prove my point, living here now, is a state with out hope or despair, it just is.

reply to post by Iamschist


Agreed...
Sometimes hope can be a killer
When we build a dream-world inside, beautiful and deep as it may be, if nothing resonates with the outer world,
rough and without pity at it may sometimes be... We break, we get stuck, we end up on the floor crying...
Because of hope, because of our deep love, that flows from and through our hearts...
We die a little each time, die a little and go deeper...
Understands a new, feel the morning sun... Again, yet deeper, more profound than ever...
A new day has dawned, a new day of love and hope...

Hope comes in many forms and shapes, like love...
Sometimes it is the knife that gives you the final cut into hopelessness
Sometimes it is the only thing to touch you in the depth of the shadows...

Lots of love to you my friend
Posted my newest thread in 'short stories', believe it or not lol
Just in case you didn't see it...
Had one of 'those days' too, yesterday...
Like everything stopped in making sense
But through the tears there is always a way
Through the loneliness there is always hearts to touch

Heart to heart
I love you

Originally posted by Iamschist
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here". These are the words written above the gates of Hell in Dante's work. I always thought that meant that you took off your hope at the door and entered into a hopeless state. What if, that is not the idea. What if it means in order to leave, you must abandon hope.

Turns out that hope is extremely hard to let go of.....

Sorry to know of your difficulties!
It might help if you defined "Hope", and all responses regarded that defiition.
In part, it would be good for you... And, on the other part - good for the discussion.
I, for one, would like to understand the dilemma more accurately, before choosing to respond (or not).
Thanks.

reply to post by laffoe


As usual we see eye to eye and heart to heart my dear friend. Balance is the trick eh? Love you

Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by Iamschist
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here". These are the words written above the gates of Hell in Dante's work. I always thought that meant that you took off your hope at the door and entered into a hopeless state. What if, that is not the idea. What if it means in order to leave, you must abandon hope.

Turns out that hope is extremely hard to let go of.....

Sorry to know of your difficulties!
It might help if you defined "Hope", and all responses regarded that defiition.
In part, it would be good for you... And, on the other part - good for the discussion.
I, for one, would like to understand the dilemma more accurately, before choosing to respond (or not).
Thanks.

Thanks for your reply. Difficulties go with life yes? Mine at that particular time caused me to examine hope in this case, imho this is part of the reason we have difficulties so we can examine constructs we have.

Webster defines hope as:

hopedhop·ing Definition of HOPE intransitive verb 1 : to cherish a desire with anticipation 2 archaic : trust transitive verb 1 : to desire with expectation of obtainment 2 : to expect with confidence : trust

www.merriam-webster.com...

Since the thread is an examination of hope, not sure what your asking me?
For the purpose of this thread, to desire, want, wish for would be closest

Originally posted by Iamschist
Thanks for your reply. Difficulties go with life yes? Mine at that particular time caused me to examine hope in this case, imho this is part of the reason we have difficulties so we can examine constructs we have.

Webster defines hope as:

hopedhop·ing Definition of HOPE intransitive verb 1 : to cherish a desire with anticipation 2 archaic : trust transitive verb 1 : to desire with expectation of obtainment 2 : to expect with confidence : trust

www.merriam-webster.com...

Since the thread is an examination of hope, not sure what your asking me?
For the purpose of this thread, to desire, want, wish for would be closest

Sorry - Didn't see the date of this thread 'til after responding.
I was not asking - because I don't know...but rather because many people attach many different ideas to "a word".
In this case, it seemed that many respondents were aligning their responses with their-own definitions, such as: "hope" is some formless desire for future happiness...or, a specific "wish" for a Christmas gift...or "a reason to go on"...
Nevertheless - "hope" things are moving in an acceptable direction for you!

reply to post by WanDash


Thanks for your hopes for me Do you have any philosophical thoughts on hope yourself? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Do we need it? What happens if we don't have it, does that always mean despair, or can it mean something else?

Originally posted by Iamschist
Thanks for your hopes for me

Do you have any philosophical thoughts on hope yourself? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Do we need it? What happens if we don't have it, does that always mean despair, or can it mean something else?

I thought the OP was an outstanding question.
I have pondered "hope" many times over the last few years, and can't say I've come to any conclusions.
Part of the issue lies in what I'm attaching the "hope" to.
It seems to me that the "hope" so many (including myself) put so much stock in, is really "the formless" kind. The kind that has no real face or other features than - "better than today". Like the cows that scratch-up their hides, pushing their necks as far as possible through barbed-wire fences, to eat the grass on the other side.
When you have no money or certain things - you build up this fantasy about what it will be like when/if you do get money/things. When you get them, though - hope is dead, and you have to come up with another fantasy to look forward to. So, after a while - you have a big pile of dead hope sitting around you...but you can't stop yourself from wanting - to make the pile grow.
I could probably keep going - but it would probably be very repetitive, and I'm still working on adding...to my pile.

I guess I may be describing "hope" as "fantasy".

I recall that at some point in the Christian Bible (New Testament Epistles), "hope" is likened to "an anchor".
That might not be wrong.

reply to post by WanDash


I like what you had to say very much. The visual of piles of dead or used up hope all around us, is haunting and a unique perspective. I enjoy being surprised into seeing or thinking in a different way, and you have provided that.

I like the idea of hope as an anchor, bit of a contrast to say it is a fantasy and also an anchor, how can this paradox exist? The Bible also draws the comparison of hope and faith, is that where the idea of an anchor comes from? Interesting.

False hopes are more dangerous than fears.

J. R. R. TOLKIEN, The Children of Hurin


This is an interesting thread.
I've always found hope to be my grace. When things have gone from bad to horrible, when I've lost loved ones for example, or am feeling stuck and that things will never cease to be "groundhog day"--I let myself fall into a dark place. I watch myself do it, allow the blackness of hopelessness come in and blot out all light inside me.
Then one moment, one hour, one day, I say to myself, enough is enough, and I allow hope back into my view, and then light reenters my space.
It sounds corny, but I remember vaguely some line in the Lord of the Rings about there always being hope, in the face of overwhelming darkness. And to me, that is why hope is not an "attachment" but a gift from light.

However, I was intrigued by the thread and found some quotes to the contrary of my line of thinking - one by a favorite of mine, E Tolle.

Hope is a horrible thing, you know. I don't know who decided to package hope as a virtue because it's not. It's a plague. Hope is like walking around with a fishhook in your mouth and somebody just keeps pulling it and pulling it.

ANN PATCHETT, State of Wonder


Hope is what keeps you going, but hope keeps you focused on the future, and this continued focus perpetuates your denial of the Now and therefore your unhappiness.

ECKHARD TOLLE, The Power of Now

reply to post by Galadriel


Thank you for the reply. I love your quotes!! They are exactly what I was thinking, or rather questioning when I wrote this thread. If Dante had that in mind when he wrote that iconic line over the gates of hell.

I do think that hope and light are associated too. Hopelessness can certainly be called dark. The coin is probably best on it's edge or at the very least awareness of the excesses.