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Oppositional defiant disorder [ODD] -- Now This Is Some Nonsense

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posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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I don’t have much experience in psychology child or otherwise; however, I can relate a personal experience and you all can comment if you so choose.I am a retired Military Officer, I own a business but I also substitute teach at various schools in the area since my business pretty much runs itself.

Anyway, one day the Superintendant calls and asks me if I’d be interested in subbing as an aide for a kid with special needs for a two weeks (only 2 actual days a week as its pre-school) while his regular aide goes on some religious mission. I have very little patience for “little” kids, I admit this to him – I prefer them when they can actually carry a discussion and be reasoned with. Well, as far as someone can reason with kids…

He is obviously desperate I feel obligated so I say I’ll give it a try. So I go in and get the “Intervention plan” briefing from the special Ed teacher. It says the kid has ODD and is on medication of various types.

The intervention strategy seems silly to me – basically it was “don’t challenge him directly in any way with language or body language” if he wants to do something other than what he is supposed to be doing at the time just make sure he doesn’t disrupt the class too much and let him roll with it as long as he’s not going to hurt himself..

So basically the kid goes to pre-school and while the other kids are following the rules and getting reprimanded or corrected for not doing so he is allowed to do pretty much as he pleases because the alternative – trying to make him actually “do” anything results in a class 7 nuclear disaster of anger. Oh and also he pisses his pants all the time so I have to take him to the bathroom like every 30 minutes – just in case.

Well, this goes pretty much as I expect it will – disastrously. I think of course that the reason the kid has ODD in the first place is the fact he can get people to not make him follow the rules because he manipulates the situation by melting down so he can do as he pleases. I think because I am a temp I can try an experiment a little and get away with my unsanctioned experiment and make him do what he was supposed to do. I loose.

First, getting a kid with ODD to go to the bathroom every 30 minutes when he doesn’t want to is insanity. So your choice is let him jkeep on doing whatever, in which case he pisses his pants and then you can change him or literally drag him kicking and screaming down the hall to stand there for 10 minutes arguing that he doesn’t have to go and unrolling the toilet paper and spraying febreeze or whatever in your face.

So I chose the latter as I don’t really get into pants changing for a 4 year old. Bottom line is that any time you told him to do anything he’d say no. Regardless of what it was. If you insisted or used physical restraint to guide him to where he was supposed to be he’d start hitting and/or banging his head on the floor – literally. He did it in the bathroom so I thought crap just let him do it how long will he go. He did it longer than I could watch him do it without fear he’d break the skin and me get in trouble. A long time – BTW. He wasn’t fake hitting either he was hitting his head against the tile floor hard…

I don’t know personally weather the diagnosis is real or what but the kid was 4 and clearly defiant for no reason other than he could be and get away with it. He broke my “give a crap meter” in one half day of pre-school. I can’t imagine having to do it every day for a job much less as a parent.

I did it for one day and told the school there is a special place for people who can do that every day – I won’t be going there because I can’t do it. Half day of school and I was more emotionally drained than I ever have been and I’ve been to war several times.

My question is which came first – the issue or the fact that their intervention plan was to let him just get away with it all the time by throwing a fit so he can do exactly as he pleases.

Also IMO there is no reason for this kid to be in regular school as he did not participate in a single thing the other kids did. Why mainstream the mainstreamable? He needs to be in a special school IMO. Why do we pay as taxpayers for him to have a special babysitter in addition to the teacher to follow him around so he doesn’t piss himself and hurt himself or another kid all day at 12 dollars an hour.

Anyway, perhaps ODD is real in this case – I don’t know why a kid of 4 years old would not comply with any directive at all other than he can and people indulge it. That or he is really messed up chemically somehow.

About the indulgence, to be honest, if I had to have a kid that melted down any time he/she was asked to do something to the point of pounding his head on the floor I’d probably just stop asking him/her to do anything after 4 years of it too.

I don’t envy the parents. Who were all of 20 and 21 respectively – so that means they were all of 16/17 when he was born. Sad situation...




posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 04:34 AM
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Teachers should just be allowed to spank and humiliate kids



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


Howdy Golf66,


My question is which came first – the issue or the fact that their intervention plan was to let him just get away with it all the time by throwing a fit so he can do exactly as he pleases.

I can only speak for our circumstance. I will never know for sure what caused him to start banging his head, and self harm but, these problems started after he got his DTP at 6 month old. We took him back to the doctor but, he referred us to a neurologist. That doctor wanted us to wait til he was older because he said the tests were invasive. I was 21 yrs old and I certainly trusted his recommendation. We were out there at Cherry Point, N.C.

Our kids were always known for their good behavior and manners. Behavior was handled spot on. We didn't go through what most parents call "the terrible twos". The issue we had seem to be something going on inside our son that frustrated him. This frustration came out on it's own and then he would act up. I remember him biting me, I bit him back and he didn't do it again. He headbutted me to, but when I did it back to him, he dropped ha...he didn't do that again either. By the time he was old enough for school, he was well behaved and used his manners properly. Not being able to focus very long is normal of a 5 year old. Bs on drugging kids into zombies so they will sit still...they are not animals.



Also IMO there is no reason for this kid to be in regular school as he did not participate in a single thing the other kids did. Why mainstream the mainstreamable? He needs to be in a special school IMO. Why do we pay as taxpayers for him to have a special babysitter in addition to the teacher to follow him around so he doesn’t piss himself and hurt himself or another kid all day at 12 dollars an hour.

I agree. But, I don't agree with our system transitioning to a socialist system. We have been doing it for over 20 years now and it is failing to create independent, productive and responsible young adults. Heck, it tossed out procedures that were effective in dealing with disruption and turned classrooms into little more than babysitting centers. This issue of severely handicapped children in the same classrooms is another example as to why what we are doing is a failure. I would also say, why do we pay taxes to train our children to be indoctrinated to desire a socialist system that has already proven to be a failure throughout history? That's messed up.


Anyway, perhaps ODD is real in this case – I don’t know why a kid of 4 years old would not comply with any directive at all other than he can and people indulge it. That or he is really messed up chemically somehow.

I don't know why we are dumping 4 yr old kids in a classroom anyway, they are too young. They ought to be in the care of the parent or daycare.


I don’t envy the parents. Who were all of 20 and 21 respectively – so that means they were all of 16/17 when he was born. Sad situation...

Every generation of kids beg to be taught things in school that will be useful in real life.... and still the system ignores the pleas. We do need to teach teens about child development and parenting skills. We need to teach kids to respect each other and life in general. Maybe we might not find so many babies in dumpsters. Maybe teen suicides would drop.

Think about this for a moment...we encourage teens to have indiscriminate sex, then we have a system that pays them a welfare check for being irresponsible .... how messed up is that?
I know you didn't go in to be a babysitter and let me tell you, it wasn't like that 20 years ago. When couples have a child, someone needs to be home to raise that child, it is not normal to have a family with no parent there to raise them. These unfair laws and entitlements are dividing the family intentionally imo.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by OldSchoolMom
I can only speak for our circumstance. I will never know for sure what caused him to start banging his head, and self harm but, these problems started after he got his DTP at 6 month old. We took him back to the doctor but, he referred us to a neurologist. That doctor wanted us to wait til he was older because he said the tests were invasive. I was 21 yrs old and I certainly trusted his recommendation. We were out there at Cherry Point, N.C.


All I can say is that the boy in my case was clearly not old enough to be a rebel or acting with any rational reason to be defiant so perhaps there are some kids who do meet the definition of the disorder ODD. This is in opposition to the OP's claim that it’s all BS.

I also say if you have a kid who is like the one I experienced - I hope you get a reward in the afterlife of your choice. I could not do it for a lifetime - one half day of school and I was spent.

I don't know in the long run how he will turn out but I can only opine that if their plan for intervention is basically non-intervention and indulgence it isn't going to be a pretty outcome for either the boy or society.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


Kind of like my brother said to me... he said "I DON'T know how you do it, day after day, week after week."
Many people have told me I have the most patience they have ever seen.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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My daughter has been to see a psychiatrist, we have tried her without her medication, she was actually harming her younger sister by keep gripping the fresh scar she had after an osteoplasty for her erbs palsy. I have moved to a bigger house to give her her own room and space so she can calm down without having to interact with her sisters. We have tried being loving and compliant, we have disciplined her for her behaviour. I have been to numerous doctors, clincs, you name it, I've tried it. I don't want to 'label' my children, I don't think it's fashionable or clever, but in this case the diagnosis she was given fits like a glove. At the end of the day pulling faces and declaring this condition doesn't exist doesn't help my daughter in any way. I did what any decent parent would do, I did my own research on the subject to see what caused it, were there any dietry changes I could do, behavioural modification etc. There are a whole host of other symptoms which go with this condition which haven't even been discussed yet. A child with ODD often suffers from depression and anxiety which we have to keep a close watch on. They aren't keen on physical contact unless they initiate it, they are impulsive to an extreme level and always act before considering the consequences, subsequently they can be a danger to themselves and others, and yes they will hurt themselves to get a reaction if they have to by banging their head off a wall or floor when angry.

I would call myself a decent parent, I'm human like anyone but I take an active interest in the wellbeing of my children, their health, their education and their safety is my prime concern. I am a patient person and not easily provoked by my daughter as reacting in a strung out manner to her outbursts only makes the situation worse. She is NOT allowed to get away with hitting other people or carrying on in a nasty manner. I tell her, as I tell all my children that her condition is NOT an excuse to act in an antisocial way, and she knows this. She is often her own worst enemy, and that is the shame of it. She sat with me one day and told me that she doesn't like getting frustrated but she just gets so angry she can't stop herself. By denying that ODD existed I would be doing her no favours at all. She is calmer now than she has been in a long time. She is in a special school with other children who have similar conditions. She was previously in a normal school and was isolated and bullied for her condition. She is starting to relax around people who don't look at her as some sort of freak and this is making her more relaxed at home. Kids like this NEED acceptance, patience and support, not simply dismissed as unruly, antisocial horrible children with parents who probably couldn't give a crap. It's not about what's best for you or what you believe, it's about what's best for your child.






 
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