reply to post by OkieDokie
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
a) Jesus had to pray to the "One who could save him from death"... showing that only God could have saved him from death. Jesus cannot be
b) Jesus was seeking a way out. Recall his prayer before his capture.... "Let this cup pass from me". He did not willingly surrender to the Jews
to make his so called "sacrifice".
c) Jesus was heard, meaning he was saved from death. Which basically counters the claim about Jesus being dead for 3 days for three days. It cant
be said that a man was saved from death AND was dead for 3 days.
2. Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who
obey him and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
a) Jesus had to learn obedience.
Does someone who is "fully man and fully God" need to learn obedience?
b) The promise of eternal salvation is for all who obey him...
OBEY, not just believe he died on the cross for their sins. I also don't recall Jesus teaching people that they need to believe that he died for
their sins to be saved. Not even AFTER his resurrection when his followers saw him. Why is that?
c) Jesus was designated by God to be a high priest in Melchizedeks order.
Jesus was NOT God but instead was appointed by God.
edit on 8-10-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)
I think there IS a need for theology lessons here.
1. There is a need for you to uinderstand the Trinity. 3 in 1. Christ was a part of the Godhead, equal with God the Father, and The Holy Spirit. Jesus
knew he was to be the sacrifice for sin from the foundations of the world. No man could have fullfilled the requirements of being spotless, thus God
had to take on the flesh and remian blameless. Jesus prayed to God the Father because his flesh was becoming weak from the weight of the full wrath of
God being laid on it. Wrath that should have been directed at you and I. When it says the Jesus was "heard", it does not mean that His prayer was
answered the way that you have believed, that he did not die on that cross. It means that God the Father carried Him trough the agony of death and
raised Him on the third day just as it is written and as was witnessed by over 500 people in the region at the time. He was delievered from death
through the resurrection.
2. Jesus learned obedience by submitting to the will of the Father while He was in the flesh. It was required of Him to overcome the flesh in order to
be blamelss and defeat sin on the cross. On part b of this one, I have to agree with you. We are told in Scripture that we are to pick up our cross
daily and follow Him. Many professing Christians fail in this miserably. It is because of this that I believe that there are many unsaved and deceived
people who sit in the pews every sunday and are in reality destined for hell. I have no way of knowing who, only God knows their hearts, but we are
told that on the day of Judgement that many will say (Me paraphrasing) "Haven't we done all these things in your name?" and God will say "Depart
from me you workers on iniquity, I never knew you". On C, I don't know enough to say it very plainly, maybe someone can help me out on this one. In
the Bible, there are many "Types" of Christ. Adam and David are also types of Christ and display some of the characteristics of the Savior that was
Very good questions!
I'm confused..From what was said, it appears as though Jesus could have failed. He pleaded and prayed to be saved, he learned obedience and was made
perfect.... it sounds as if he was only saved by his actions.... which means..... he could have failed himself if he is Jesus AND God AND the Holy
Spirit? The Holy Trinity? What would have happened if this portion of God, in the form of Jesus, had failed? If his prayers had not been Heard?
I don't see the logic in this. To me, this means Jesus could not be God, but absorbed into the GOD fold being? If he was God in Jesus' form, why
did he need to pray to himself and be heard in order to be saved? In this regard, I cannot see how the Holy Trinity is All One.