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Chavez wins re-election, electoral council says

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posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by StellarX
 


Fair enough.

I see that the commie bashers have tried to take over this thread.


There was absolutely nothing fair about what were done to the 'soviets' or the later terribly twisted mostly fascist Soviet union! Also as i believe any capitalist worthy of the title will probably avoid telling you is that what keeps them from unfair practices is firstly their morality ( the more moral a man the larger your comparative disadvantage in a capitalist marketplace ) and secondly the legality of the practice and the chance of getting caught&severely punished. The examples we have, and have had, of unregulated free capitalist markets makes socialist experiments to date look very good indeed given that they were at least trying something that we will eventually have to implement on a world scale if we plan to sustain human life around these parts.

The truth of the story is that by the time 'communist' Russia came about ( not that they were but lets pretend for the moment) the world was already run by capitalist in imperial or other like guises... Communism ( or more properly it's partly socialist roots) was also as best i can tell under attack from the the capitalist/imperialist from the start and as we should be able to agree attacking a 'new' social movement in it's developing phase is a good way to empower the radicals in it which is pretty much how the actual social democrats of the original formative soviets met their ends very quickly.

Suffice to say that given the power brought to bear against it it should surprise us that the Soviet Union managed to keep things together as long as it did and in my opinion that more than the socialist safety nets of the west ( that is widely and ignorantly presumed to be a original feature of a capitalist system) suggest very strongly to me that what makes countries powerful and enduring is not their internal competitive urges but a social contract that meets the basic needs of the most people. Isn't it striking that even with the hopelessly broken soviet model very significant proportions ( i recently heard a figure of 42% for east Germans) of people in the former republics would like to go back? Does it not tell us a lot about how messed up naked capitalism is?

But it sounds like when it comes to you at least i am preaching to the choir!

Cheers

Stellar

edit on 9-10-2012 by StellarX because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by azulejo

My friend, Chavez is there by TPTB.


Spare me that very presumptious salutation...

ALSO! Isn't it striking that generally speaking the middle and upper class people of the world see the anti-christ as some socialist/communist TBTB incarnation whereas the poor, who have actual experience with the far more life and soul destroying system that is capitalism, believes that TBTB will come in corporate and imperial guise? Is it not interest that our social class( meaning wealth) essentially determines what sort of economic system we fear?


If these idiots of "Socialists" (they are not real socialists) and against America, they wouldnt allow selling 22% of our oil to US, they wouldnt give away things to the US, they wouldnt allow tourism from US to Cuba which are the number 1 to visit with Canadians.


That is what people keep trying to tell you! Chavez is not anti American ( he offered the US free oil to 'help' after hurricane Katrina and other gulf storms same as he did for Cuba and Mexico... Chavez is anti IMPERIALISM and not anti-american. The problem has never been with Cuba as they are not embarrassed by their country as much as they do seem to realise the limitations of their successes! It is the US that does not want to allow tourism to Cuba as they are so very sure that Americans will notice that despite the poverty much else does seem to work far better than it has any reason to work in a supposed socialist hell hole.


So, its all a farse. Che Guevara? I clean my arse with Che Guevara, assesin, murderer, he killed people just because, more than 300 people shot by him. How do I know? Because I know CUBANS that were there and guess who killed CHE? FIDEL CASTRO!


Guevara , as far as my reading goes, was simply more of a revolutionary than Castro and much of the rest of the leadership and that is pretty much why the best thing they could do with him was to send him away to aid revolutionaries in other countries having very much realised that he would just be creating problems at home. Fidel Castro and much of the rest of the leadership are also by no means Anti-American and turned for support to the Soviet Union only after they had realised that no settlement or 'peace' was in fact possible with Washington. Not sure how you figured Castro killed him but i suppose the lack of support for his hopeless foreign adventures could be tantamount to killing him.


So, dont talk about him as he is against America because he isnt. It is very clear.

Nor, we want America interfering with our affairs.


Chavez is no angel and he seems to be a somewhat pragmatic guy who would deal fairly with America and other countries in like measure. Until the US stops it's economic or outright warfare against socialist leaning countries they must be resisted by economic isolation or like measures and until that strategy bears fruit we can only hope that the US government does not eventually succumb to the age old solution of starting a major war against a major power to destroy any remaining dissent at home.

Stellar
edit on 9-10-2012 by StellarX because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by azulejo
OHHHH BRAVO!!! YOU CAN USE WIKIPEDIA!


Just waiting for you to manage the same brilliant feat and then i can retire to just reading it and not having to post links to get you started!



I am Venezuelan, I am NOT WHITE. I am pure Brown. Mixed African, Spaniard and Indian ok?

AND I HATE CHAVEZ


So who bought your plane tickets to the UK? Tell me about your own and your parents education levels and income? I am really interested as if it turns out that both you and your parents are as poor and as 'misinformed' ( i really want to say uneducated but they more often than have similar results and certainly appear similar on the Internet) as you seem to be and managed to row over the Atlantic in a little boat ( presuming you and your parents moved there) i will most certainly apologise profusely for confusing you with the 700 000 other Venezuelans that had sufficient money to move to other countries and start new lives there. Given what percentage moved to countries with relatively strict immigration laws they were NOT poor and very probably of the same general 'white' group ( that has caused so much trouble all over the formerly un-colonized world ) than the 800 000 - 1 million white South-Africans, 20 % of the 1990 population, who have taken their wealth and education and absconded from their responsibilities toward their country of birth. Had those people educated and wealthy people stayed in Either South-Africa or Venezuela odds are both countries would be doing MUCH better today but they clearly felt a stronger loyalty to their wealth than they did to their birthplace.


This is not some racial thing man, how many people in the shanty towns hate Chavez? many! Because he promised hospitals, schools, new houses and he didnt do anything!!


And what has the ANC been doing recently other than allowing the virtual execution of mine workers in defense of mining interests? Chavez clearly did not live up to all the promises he made and neither did the ANC but at least they are making SOME efforts in a world where the moneyed and corporate power of the world fights them with every weapon in it's truly large arsenal. If you do not believe there is a racial aspect is predominant perhaps you wish to tell me why the lighter skinned people live in the upper and middle class neighbourhoods and the darker skinned people life in the barrios? Admittedly Venezuelans , by a large margin, say they do not live in a racist society but when it comes to where you live, work and who you vote for Venezuela is divided along pretty much exactly those lines


Many people that are poor are not with him... and wait for it!!! many RICH people are with him because they only get RICHER if they are with teh goverment... what happens if you are not?


Yes and it makes sense for the Chavez government to include the wealthy people of Venezuela who are willing to make some concessions in terms of taxes and employing disadvantaged people in the society and to then either reward them with state contracts or to at least just largely leave them alone. Would you instead recommend that PSUV should not seek allies among the corporate leaders and instead alienate them all and further hurt the economy and livelihoods of people? Would that make him more or less socialist/crazy in your eyes? I mean when socialist try to somehow live with the capitalist owners of the world they are derided for not 'caring for the common' people but when they do act against them they are called fascist/dictators and worse? What is a socialist leaning party supposed to do, in your view, in this capitalist nightmare of a world?


well, expropriation!! they take everything from you!


If they did that all foreign investment would be halted ( it has not because they did not do so) so that would be crazy and explains perfectly why talk of nationalizing 'everything' tend to remain just that in most so called socialist countries.


Please do me a favor and come to Venezuela, live here with us and they GIVE AN OPINION....

WIKIPEDIA.......right


Why don't you just go back and stay in Venezuela as i stayed in South-Africa after it become less of a white mans paradise?

I didn't leave my country because I suddenly had to work a little harder to achieve the wealth that my parents achieved with hard work, but also with generous state support in terms of favorably working conditions as well as preferential employment, so why should you get to leave ( presuming you are living there and not just working there as i did ) and then attack me for lacking understanding when i am clearly showing you that i do have an understanding of the issues involved?

Stellar



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
90% of the vote has been counted and he had a 54% of the vote. Hell we declare winners here with far less than that.


LOL, you actually think this was a free election? "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes." ~ Joe Stalin



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Venezualans LOVE Hugo Chavez.

Hell they went on strike the last time somebody tried to make him step down.



~Tenth



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc
LOL, you actually think this was a free election? "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes." ~ Joe Stalin


That is a fair accusation and that is why Venezuela uses ( or used it last time i heard) a machine voting system where you vote for your candidate with the critical difference from US black box voting that the Venezuelan machines actually give you a paper print out showing what you did so that there can at least in theory be independent verification should you suspect foul play down the line. Like upstanding citizens anywhere poorer Venezuelans would rather have a paper trail so that elections are much harder to rig than avoid responsibility by pretending that the state have no other ways of figuring out who or what you will be voting for. The times where the state lacked the information to determine on who's side you would be on come election day is long over and black box paper less nonsense is either evidence of a intensely corrupt government or a paranoid&terrified citizenry or, certainly in the case of the US, both.

Stellar



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Keep believing Venezuela is perfect after 14(plus the next 6) years of media takeover,absurd amounts of state money wasted on propaganda and projects that never start, ran by a military communist coup plotter. But hey, he's anti-american so he's good. Yes, the majority may love him but: "Pan para hoy,hambre para mañana".

Research if you will, but you probably won't because you people have some kind of twisted '___' fantasy in your brains,and waking up may be too much reality:

-FONDEN (Fondo de desarrollo nacional)

That FONDEN scandal alone would be enough for an impeachment and jail time, but we live in an upside down country, and the president is the champion of the people,and probably the next Jesus.

Goodbye, and please, be informed.



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by azulejo
 


Greetings paisano, from Maracaibo. I'm glad you could leave the country, i will do so as soon as i graduate. I've got some thinking to do, where should i go, etc. I too am deeply heartbroken by the 7-0 elections.But i wasn't expecting a miracle. I just hope we can soon start recovering,without the help of foreign interests such as America,China,Cuba or Russia. To hell with them all.

Can you believe people treat you like a dog because you are somewhat educated on a third-world country?They sure love their ignorant folk, we got a lot of those here.

El vil egoismo, que otra vez triunfo


The best of luck partner



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by metodex
reply to post by Darkrunner
 


Only those who have never seen authoritarism think that Democracy is the worst thing ever.
Bless America and their democracy.


I lived and experienced socialism/communism in Cuba, so I know what authoritarism is... it is you who don't seem to want to understand what's right in front of your face...

The United States HAS NEVER been a democracy... It is a representative, Constitutional REPUBLIC... not a democracy...

I even gave the quotes of two authoritarians who knew and exploited "democracy"...

The founding fathers of the United States, even thou not all of them agreed on democracy, they KNEW and agreed when writting the U.S. Constitution, and it's Bill of rights, that "democracy" could bring many problems, and decided to include provisions that would stop the nation into becoming a "dictatorship of the mayority", and this is why for example the "electoral college" was added in our voting process.

This was done so that EVERYONE, including minorities, would be part of the voting process instead of relying on "democracy", or "mayority rule"...

Democracy is when 51% of the people can take away the rights of the rest of the 49% of the people...



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Venezualans LOVE Hugo Chavez.

Hell they went on strike the last time somebody tried to make him step down.



~Tenth


Really?, is that why the Chavistas, and Chavez have done everything in their power to limit the amount of people from the opposition who could vote?...


Is that why they have to intimidate, harrass, arrest, and even kill dissidents/protesters?...

You should look at pictures, or videos of how many VENEZUELANS have been in protests against Chavez...

You should read about the "changes" Chavez, and his chavistas have brought to Venezuela before you make claims not based on reality.

For example...



You should look at how Chavez, and his government have even made it a criminal offense to publish, or say anything offensive against Chavez or his government...

BTW, google seems to be biased in favor of Chavez, since if you try to use google to look for "criminalization of dissent against Chavez" will turn no results, but if you use Bing, or some other search engine, you will find a lot of results, and how in Venezuela it has been criminalized to publish, or say in public things against Chavez, and or his government

For example...



The owner and president of the only television channel that remains critical of President Hugo Chavez, Globovision, was arrested by Venezuelan police, subject to an investigation into an alleged biased statement against the Government at a Inter American Press Association (IAPA) meeting.
...
Luis Ortega, General Attorney, explained that prosecutors are investigating Zuloaga for statements he allegedly made during a recent IAPA meeting in the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, where media executives from across the Americas criticized Chavez’ government for limiting freedom of expression.


Pro-Chavez lawmaker Manuel Villalba urged prosecutors on Wednesday to investigate Zuloaga for allegedly saying that Venezuela’s government is cracking down on its critics and purpotedly commenting that it was a shame that a short-lived 2002 coup against Chavez failed.

Also the National Assembly of Venezuela approved an agreement to reject the statements of Zuloaga to the IAPA, considering that they were untrue and serious accusations against President Chavez.

The agreement stated that Zuloaga attempted to damage the image and criminalize the constitutional and democratic government of Venezuela.

The parliamentarians called on prosecutors to conduct the necessary investigations in order to determine any criminal liability for false accusations.
...

m24digital.com...




Chavez's Foes Criticize Law Stiffening Penalties For Libel

December 11, 2004

CARACAS, Venezuela -- Legal reforms approved by Venezuela's Congress would stiffen prison sentences for slander and libel, drawing sharp criticism from President Hugo Chavez's opponents, who on Friday called it an attempt to crack down on dissent. The changes are "incompatible with freedom of expression," said Alberto Arteaga, a law professor at Venezuela's Central University. Under the old penal code, the maximum sentence for libel was 18 months in prison. The code passed by Congress late Thursday increased the maximum to four years in prison.
...

articles.orlandosentinel.com...

Not to mention other things Chavez has said, and done...


...
Addressing the newly elected Constituent Assembly in early August, Chavez called for the assembly to assume emergency powers that would supersede the authority of the nation's present executive, legislative, and judicial branches. "What is occurring is a revolution, and it will be futile to try to avoid it; Venezuela is being reborn from the ashes, and no one can stop it," he told the assembly.
...

www.worldpress.org...

Not to mention the other ways that chavez, and his government have been stopping, or trying to stop dissent, including closing most tv, and radio stations, and only allowing a couple to keep their licenses only if they continue to bow down to Chavez's despotism...

edit on 9-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by NavyDoc
LOL, you actually think this was a free election? "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes." ~ Joe Stalin


That is a fair accusation and that is why Venezuela uses ( or used it last time i heard) a machine voting system where you vote for your candidate with the critical difference from US black box voting that the Venezuelan machines actually give you a paper print out showing what you did so that there can at least in theory be independent verification should you suspect foul play down the line. Like upstanding citizens anywhere poorer Venezuelans would rather have a paper trail so that elections are much harder to rig than avoid responsibility by pretending that the state have no other ways of figuring out who or what you will be voting for. The times where the state lacked the information to determine on who's side you would be on come election day is long over and black box paper less nonsense is either evidence of a intensely corrupt government or a paranoid&terrified citizenry or, certainly in the case of the US, both.

Stellar


LOL. No, Chavez does not intimidate or crush the opposition at all.



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc

LOL. No, Chavez does not intimidate or crush the opposition at all.


That's sarcasm right?...

It has got to be sarcasm...



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by metodex
Keep believing Venezuela is perfect after 14(plus the next 6) years of media takeover,


It is actually widely understood that the large majority of the media in Venezuela is still privately owned and controlled and that is why most the western world believes that Hugo Chavez is the incarnation of Stalin... The fact that there isn't just a complete silence about Mister Chavez's 'outrages' ( such as there is about the millions who have died in central African wars in the last decade) tells me all i need to know about who controls the media there and is also why it's so easy to see that the ANC has little if any practical control over the media in South-Africa. If the Venezuelan media started to regularly praise Mister Chavez and that message reached me i would become concerned but yeh, i am not of the opinion the capitalist class of Venezuela will let go of the significant control the retrain there without new coups or general bloodshed.


bsurd amounts of state money wasted on propaganda and projects that never start,


It's the same in South-Africa... The ANC , like any political party who wants to stay in power, tries to replace current state officials with their own professional people and if there are not sufficient numbers of those they take party loyalist and put them whatever their credentials or qualifications. This is how party politics works everywhere and it is simply foolish to suggest that the PSUV should have left the same people in control that robbed the country blind and ensured that little if any reached the poorest 50%. Even i wish that the ANC could have started a general training program when they took over the country thus creating many more professionals that would both be loyal to the ANC AND have the professional skills to serve the larger public as efficiently as possible.


ran by a military communist coup plotter.


What is with all this communist BS? Do you even realise that communism had for all practical purposes disappeared from the world scene by the time Chavez gained power? The only thing you are doing by harking on about communism is to suggest that you do not know what communism is ( the Soviet Union wasn't communist or very socialist) and just want to scare people with illusory phantoms. As for him being a coup plotter so was Nelson Mandela and most of the ANC leadership in their time. Best i can tell from a distance Chavez has done more for poor Venezuelans than Nelson Mandela and the ANC managed to do for poor South-Africans so perhaps that is why Mandela is revered and Hugo Chavez hated; the illusion of a saintly figure that resisted but in the end failed to change the society he took over is much easier to deal with in the west than someone who not only preached change but managed to bring it about.

With some luck Chavez's popularity will grow in the west as people learn more about the achievements of the PSUV.


But hey, he's anti-american so he's good. Yes, the majority may love him but: "Pan para hoy,hambre para mañana".


If you are not anti American ( in the general sense of being anti imperialist and anti corporate capitalism) yet you are probably young or alternative part of the small fraction of capitalist that actually benefited by the system; congratulations, so am i! You do realise that the majority of the worlds citizens lives in capitalist countries and the vast majority of them are poor and either working harder and harder to achieve higher living standards or in fact becoming poorer? Do you not understand that what allows decent living standards in Western Europe and small segments on most capitalist countries is the former imperial exploitation of previous centuries or the current exploitation of the poorer citizens in those or foreign countries? If capitalist is good why are the GIni indexes ( inequality indexes) of most countries worsening?


Research if you will, but you probably won't because you people have some kind of twisted '___' fantasy in your brains,and waking up may be too much reality:


I probably have some illusions about how good/bad things are going in Venezuela but arriving at a more balanced picture is very hard given the massive capitalist propaganda campaign against the PSUV. How are we supposed to be SURE about what is happening in that country when the same media that told us there were WOMD in IRAQ is telling us Chavez had shrines built to both Hitler and Stalin? At least i know i can't trust western media or the capitalist class of Venezuela (that still owns the media just like the capitalist class in South Africa still owns our media) media reporting about the social reform goals of the PSUV but that obviously leaves me only with South American sources or Venezuela state sources or dissident reporting here and there which is obviously biased in it's own ways...

Continued
edit on 10-10-2012 by StellarX because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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-FONDEN (Fondo de desarrollo nacional)

That FONDEN scandal alone would be enough for an impeachment and jail time,


I think the significant difference may be that capitalist are simply presumed to be after the money so while American and capitalist elsewhere are angry when corruption is exposed they sort of shrug it off because one may suppose that many of them would probably do the same thing in the same situation; the system engenders corruption as what else are you supposed to do when you are advised to look after your own interest?

The difference with socialism and socialist aims is that not that people do not get involved in corrupt practices but that it exposes them as NOT being socialist and NOT having the interest of the wider community in mind. That is the difference and that is why socialist voters can act with true moral outrage against the corruption they can find and expose and that is why we may be able to eventually have a sustainable socialist world order where people can pursue their own aims to same capitalistic measure but never a sustainable purely capitalistic order.


but we live in an upside down country, and the president is the champion of the people,and probably the next Jesus.


The difference between Venezuela and South-Africa seems to then be that the large majority of people still vote for the ANC in South-Africa not because they especially 'love' president Zuma but because they know they can not go back to the old purely capitalist system as that will be even worse. The PSUV has as best i can tell done more for poor Venezuelans than the ANC has done for poor South-Africans and in less time too...


Goodbye, and please, be informed.


I do what i can but obviously others would better judge me than i could so that is partly why i am here. I know i should employ a less aggressive posting style but old habits die hard and i do think i am very very slowly becoming more open minded when it comes to 'engaging' with the 'stupid' people that just don't want to agree with me!



Cheers



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX

It is actually widely understood that the large majority of the media in Venezuela is still privately owned and controlled and that is why most the western world believes that Hugo Chavez is the incarnation of Stalin...


It is the contrary to what you claim... Most media in Venezuela has been shutdown by Chavez, and I have posted proof that they have even criminalized, and even arrest people who have spoken too much against Chavez... So your claims are obviously not only wrong, but very ignorant...



Originally posted by StellarX
What is with all this communist BS? Do you even realise that communism had for all practical purposes disappeared from the world scene by the time Chavez gained power? The only thing you are doing by harking on about communism is to suggest that you do not know what communism is ( the Soviet Union wasn't communist or very socialist) and just want to scare people with illusory phantoms.


What's this claim that Chavez is non-Communist BS?... You are showing again nothing but ignorance. Chavez at first claimed not to be even socialist, then he gained power and said he was implementing socialism, and several years back he was interviewed and CLEARLY said in a presidential speech to be communist... For crying out loud he has said castro is his mentor, and that Venezuelans should learn to be like Cubans...

Chavez has read Marx, but he prefers Trotsky, as what he has said he wants is a GLOBAL "permanent revolution"...

Since it is obvious you can't read, or understand Spanish I will let all these lies you are telling to simple ignorance about Chavez...

And your claims that the U.S.S.R. wasn't communist or very socialist is the most ignorant and stupid claim ever made by new socialists... I am sure you are one of these new socialists who wants to rewrite history so people swallow the lies you want them to believe...



Originally posted by StellarX
With some luck Chavez's popularity will grow in the west as people learn more about the achievements of the PSUV.


Are you out of your mind?... Crime has become wrose since Chavez has gained power. I have written extensively about Chavez, and the truth of what has been happening in Venezuela since before Chavez gained power, and since then I have proven that Chavez and his chavistas use intimidation, and dirty tactics, including threatening people, arresting people in Venezuela who speak/write too critically about Chavez and his government. He is also known to have been sending help/aid to terrorist groups including the FARC in Colombia and he was called on it by Colombian military, and government people...



Originally posted by StellarX
If you are not anti American ( in the general sense of being anti imperialist and anti corporate capitalism) yet you are probably young or alternative part of the small fraction of capitalist that actually benefited by the system; congratulations, so am i! You do realise that the majority of the worlds citizens lives in capitalist countries and the vast majority of them are poor and either working harder and harder to achieve higher living standards or in fact becoming poorer? Do you not understand that what allows decent living standards in Western Europe and small segments on most capitalist countries is the former imperial exploitation of previous centuries or the current exploitation of the poorer citizens in those or foreign countries? If capitalist is good why are the GIni indexes ( inequality indexes) of most countries worsening?


WRONG... the poorest people in the world are found in SOCIALIST and COMMUNIST countries such as Cuba, China, Vietnam, Burma/Myanmar(which was until very recent communist/socialist), India (which is a socialist country), etc, etc, etc...


Originally posted by StellarX
I probably have some illusions about how good/bad things are going in Venezuela but arriving at a more balanced picture is very hard given the massive capitalist propaganda campaign against the PSUV. How are we supposed to be SURE about what is happening in that country when the same media that told us there were WOMD in IRAQ is telling us Chavez had shrines built to both Hitler and Stalin? At least i know i can't trust western media or the capitalist class of Venezuela (that still owns the media just like the capitalist class in South Africa still owns our media) media reporting about the social reform goals of the PSUV but that obviously leaves me only with South American sources or Venezuela state sources or dissident reporting here and there which is obviously biased...


It is not the same media...and the information we have about what has been happening in Venezuela comes directly even from the mouth of Chavez, and what he, and the chavistas have been doing...

You are obviously extremely biased being an obvious socialist, or worse, and not knowing jack about socialism or even communism...

edit on 10-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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BTW, for you to read CLEARLY, and understand that he is a communist here are HIS OWN WORDS in Spanish...

I will even translate part of the script.


...
Y te juro, José Vicente, te juro, que aún sintiéndome al borde de la muerte salí en tu defensa y dije ¿comunista? Bueno, podrá ser comunista, yo también lo soy, y luchamos por la dignidad de los seres humanos.
...Cristo era comunista. Era un comunista auténtico, antiimperialista, enemigo de la oligarquía y de las élites del poder.

Link

"and I swear to you, Jose Vicente, I swear, that even when I was feeling close to death I went to your defense and I said communist? Good, he can be communist, I AM ALSO ONE, and we are fighting for the dignity of human beings.
...
Christ was communist, he was an authentic communist, anti-imperialist, and enemy of the oligrachy and of the elites in power."

In fact if you read what Christ had supposedly said he said he didn't come here to change any laws, or to get people out of power or anything like that...

Chavez like many other people are just ignorant, and will twist, and lie for people to accept his views on socialism and communism...

In another instance here is part of what Chavez has said about the "socialism" that he wants...


Por otra parte, y ante la preocupación expresada por algunos obispos sobre el contenido del "socialismo del siglo XXII", que será el objetivo de su nuevo mandato, Chávez les remitió a los escritos de Karl Marx y Vladimir Lenin y a la Biblia para que "aprendan lo que significa socialismo".

www.terra.com...

In the above Chavez says that in order for catholic bishops to learn about the "socialism of the 22nd century, which is going to be the goal of his new mandate, Chavez told them to read the writtings of Karl Marx and Lenin, alongside with the bible to know what socialism means"...

You can't lie to me, or try to twist what Chavez has said or done, or to any other person who understands Spanish and has read extensively and done research as to what Chavez has said and done.

BTW, Spanish is my first language.

edit on 10-10-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: fix link.





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