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Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by StellarX
Fair enough.
I see that the commie bashers have tried to take over this thread.
Originally posted by azulejo
My friend, Chavez is there by TPTB.
If these idiots of "Socialists" (they are not real socialists) and against America, they wouldnt allow selling 22% of our oil to US, they wouldnt give away things to the US, they wouldnt allow tourism from US to Cuba which are the number 1 to visit with Canadians.
So, its all a farse. Che Guevara? I clean my arse with Che Guevara, assesin, murderer, he killed people just because, more than 300 people shot by him. How do I know? Because I know CUBANS that were there and guess who killed CHE? FIDEL CASTRO!
So, dont talk about him as he is against America because he isnt. It is very clear.
Nor, we want America interfering with our affairs.
Originally posted by azulejo
OHHHH BRAVO!!! YOU CAN USE WIKIPEDIA!
I am Venezuelan, I am NOT WHITE. I am pure Brown. Mixed African, Spaniard and Indian ok?
AND I HATE CHAVEZ
This is not some racial thing man, how many people in the shanty towns hate Chavez? many! Because he promised hospitals, schools, new houses and he didnt do anything!!
Many people that are poor are not with him... and wait for it!!! many RICH people are with him because they only get RICHER if they are with teh goverment... what happens if you are not?
well, expropriation!! they take everything from you!
Please do me a favor and come to Venezuela, live here with us and they GIVE AN OPINION....
WIKIPEDIA.......right
Originally posted by buster2010
90% of the vote has been counted and he had a 54% of the vote. Hell we declare winners here with far less than that.
Originally posted by NavyDoc
LOL, you actually think this was a free election? "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes." ~ Joe Stalin
Originally posted by metodex
reply to post by Darkrunner
Only those who have never seen authoritarism think that Democracy is the worst thing ever.
Bless America and their democracy.
Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Venezualans LOVE Hugo Chavez.
Hell they went on strike the last time somebody tried to make him step down.
~Tenth
The owner and president of the only television channel that remains critical of President Hugo Chavez, Globovision, was arrested by Venezuelan police, subject to an investigation into an alleged biased statement against the Government at a Inter American Press Association (IAPA) meeting.
...
Luis Ortega, General Attorney, explained that prosecutors are investigating Zuloaga for statements he allegedly made during a recent IAPA meeting in the Dutch Caribbean island of Aruba, where media executives from across the Americas criticized Chavez’ government for limiting freedom of expression.
Pro-Chavez lawmaker Manuel Villalba urged prosecutors on Wednesday to investigate Zuloaga for allegedly saying that Venezuela’s government is cracking down on its critics and purpotedly commenting that it was a shame that a short-lived 2002 coup against Chavez failed.
Also the National Assembly of Venezuela approved an agreement to reject the statements of Zuloaga to the IAPA, considering that they were untrue and serious accusations against President Chavez.
The agreement stated that Zuloaga attempted to damage the image and criminalize the constitutional and democratic government of Venezuela.
The parliamentarians called on prosecutors to conduct the necessary investigations in order to determine any criminal liability for false accusations.
...
Chavez's Foes Criticize Law Stiffening Penalties For Libel
December 11, 2004
CARACAS, Venezuela -- Legal reforms approved by Venezuela's Congress would stiffen prison sentences for slander and libel, drawing sharp criticism from President Hugo Chavez's opponents, who on Friday called it an attempt to crack down on dissent. The changes are "incompatible with freedom of expression," said Alberto Arteaga, a law professor at Venezuela's Central University. Under the old penal code, the maximum sentence for libel was 18 months in prison. The code passed by Congress late Thursday increased the maximum to four years in prison.
...
...
Addressing the newly elected Constituent Assembly in early August, Chavez called for the assembly to assume emergency powers that would supersede the authority of the nation's present executive, legislative, and judicial branches. "What is occurring is a revolution, and it will be futile to try to avoid it; Venezuela is being reborn from the ashes, and no one can stop it," he told the assembly.
...
Originally posted by StellarX
Originally posted by NavyDoc
LOL, you actually think this was a free election? "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes." ~ Joe Stalin
That is a fair accusation and that is why Venezuela uses ( or used it last time i heard) a machine voting system where you vote for your candidate with the critical difference from US black box voting that the Venezuelan machines actually give you a paper print out showing what you did so that there can at least in theory be independent verification should you suspect foul play down the line. Like upstanding citizens anywhere poorer Venezuelans would rather have a paper trail so that elections are much harder to rig than avoid responsibility by pretending that the state have no other ways of figuring out who or what you will be voting for. The times where the state lacked the information to determine on who's side you would be on come election day is long over and black box paper less nonsense is either evidence of a intensely corrupt government or a paranoid&terrified citizenry or, certainly in the case of the US, both.
Stellar
Originally posted by NavyDoc
LOL. No, Chavez does not intimidate or crush the opposition at all.
Originally posted by metodex
Keep believing Venezuela is perfect after 14(plus the next 6) years of media takeover,
bsurd amounts of state money wasted on propaganda and projects that never start,
ran by a military communist coup plotter.
But hey, he's anti-american so he's good. Yes, the majority may love him but: "Pan para hoy,hambre para mañana".
Research if you will, but you probably won't because you people have some kind of twisted '___' fantasy in your brains,and waking up may be too much reality:
-FONDEN (Fondo de desarrollo nacional)
That FONDEN scandal alone would be enough for an impeachment and jail time,
but we live in an upside down country, and the president is the champion of the people,and probably the next Jesus.
Goodbye, and please, be informed.
Originally posted by StellarX
It is actually widely understood that the large majority of the media in Venezuela is still privately owned and controlled and that is why most the western world believes that Hugo Chavez is the incarnation of Stalin...
Originally posted by StellarX
What is with all this communist BS? Do you even realise that communism had for all practical purposes disappeared from the world scene by the time Chavez gained power? The only thing you are doing by harking on about communism is to suggest that you do not know what communism is ( the Soviet Union wasn't communist or very socialist) and just want to scare people with illusory phantoms.
Originally posted by StellarX
With some luck Chavez's popularity will grow in the west as people learn more about the achievements of the PSUV.
Originally posted by StellarX
If you are not anti American ( in the general sense of being anti imperialist and anti corporate capitalism) yet you are probably young or alternative part of the small fraction of capitalist that actually benefited by the system; congratulations, so am i! You do realise that the majority of the worlds citizens lives in capitalist countries and the vast majority of them are poor and either working harder and harder to achieve higher living standards or in fact becoming poorer? Do you not understand that what allows decent living standards in Western Europe and small segments on most capitalist countries is the former imperial exploitation of previous centuries or the current exploitation of the poorer citizens in those or foreign countries? If capitalist is good why are the GIni indexes ( inequality indexes) of most countries worsening?
Originally posted by StellarX
I probably have some illusions about how good/bad things are going in Venezuela but arriving at a more balanced picture is very hard given the massive capitalist propaganda campaign against the PSUV. How are we supposed to be SURE about what is happening in that country when the same media that told us there were WOMD in IRAQ is telling us Chavez had shrines built to both Hitler and Stalin? At least i know i can't trust western media or the capitalist class of Venezuela (that still owns the media just like the capitalist class in South Africa still owns our media) media reporting about the social reform goals of the PSUV but that obviously leaves me only with South American sources or Venezuela state sources or dissident reporting here and there which is obviously biased...
...
Y te juro, José Vicente, te juro, que aún sintiéndome al borde de la muerte salí en tu defensa y dije ¿comunista? Bueno, podrá ser comunista, yo también lo soy, y luchamos por la dignidad de los seres humanos.
...Cristo era comunista. Era un comunista auténtico, antiimperialista, enemigo de la oligarquía y de las élites del poder.
Por otra parte, y ante la preocupación expresada por algunos obispos sobre el contenido del "socialismo del siglo XXII", que será el objetivo de su nuevo mandato, Chávez les remitió a los escritos de Karl Marx y Vladimir Lenin y a la Biblia para que "aprendan lo que significa socialismo".