Born again... and again?

reply to post by Deetermined


So now you agree he said it was free? You were saying the opposite earlier.

He says that he can't see clearly "now", meaning at the time of him writing the letter. The letter was written after he supposedly gained the holy spirit. If the holy spirit makes you see clearly then why did he say he couldn't see clearly after gaining it?

It's a clear contradiction, you just refuse to see it.

1 Corinthians 13:12
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

"We" includes himself, meaning he couldn't see clearly at that time, a time after he gained the holy spirit.

He says then we "shall" see face to face, meaning in the future. Why would he say he "shall" see clearly as a child when he is an adult? Is he saying he "shall" be a child again? The only way he "shall" see clearly like a child again is if he is literally born again through reincarnation.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Akragon

 

Funny i believe the same thing... As i've said previously in this thread, you won't see me trying to disprove Jesus' words. One of those "false Gods" you're talking about made his home in the OT.

Well, if you truly believed Jesus' words, then you'd know that Jesus referenced his Father as being the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, so I guess you don't believe him after all.

Pardon the late reply...

First off, i don't recall ever denying the true God is the God of Isaac/Abraham/Jacob... IF there is only one true God, then obviously HE must be their God as well as everyone elses. That really has nothing to do with what is written about God by men in the OT...

Now IF... the OT was written or "inspired" by God as many christians believe, that would be an entirely different story... but its obvious it wasn't. IF God inspired said books of the bible there would be no contradictions, no errors... it would be one solid story... unfortunatly its not, theres so many holes in the "official" story... its almost transparent...

Interesting you bring that passage up though...

Paul referenced a "God of this world"... perhaps he is the God which "inspired" much of the OT?

Have you read Matthew 22? its the chapter that holds the passage you referenced... Pay close attention to the parable which contains that verse...

And of course you could take a look at any number of my threads which deal with the OT and the issues contained within...

But somehow i think you've already made up your mind about what you believe... So it really doesn't matter what a "non-Christian" has to say about said book either way...

Does it?

reply to post by wildtimes


I agree with your analysis and especially about the Mithraic/Zoroastian origins of Christianity. Having been a "born again Xtian" 30 odd years ago I came to understand that modern day millenialism/pentecostal christians are very much like the Catholics who they would often sneer at. The simple crux of the matter is they need the fear of hell fire/eternal damnation of the soul to herd in through fear new converts. Its interesting how a thread on reincarnation quickly becomes overun by xtians ramming down their viewpoint. But thats ok, they'll have to do a few extra lifetimes to learn of Love. By love I dont mean their version of love where they say that its their love of humanity that forces them to bring the word of the Jesus of the New Testament to bear down on non-beleivers. They conveniently forget that the new testament/apostolic creed was forged by the sword and fire by a ruthless Pagan roman emperor called Constantine, who saw that the old Roman Empire needed a new State sponsored religion to control the minds of the masses. As to Paul of Tarsus....well where do we begin. I would call him the hijacker. A so called miraculous conversion and he then becomes the spokeperson of the new church. the polemic between James and Paul is conveniently whitewashed by the church.
With the stick of Hell the church grows in numbers all the while telling their converts to await their reward in the resurrection/heaven while their leaders enjoy the materailistic lifestyle on this earth. What fear do they have of hell when they know it was of their own creation. However if we look at them from a "vampiric"/energy tranference point of view their agenda becomes another ball game.....

reply to post by Deetermined


We all know from the very beginning that Satan told Adam and Eve that they wouldn't die either. These other "gods" must have been very convincing in order to get the Israelites to go back to worshiping them, even after God led them out of Egypt. We shouldn't underestimate their power, even today.

What I always find amusing is how the other spirits/satan enter the discussion at convenient points. ie it must be a spirit of confusion or a spirit of discord or the scales are over our eyes when the we fail to accept a xtians POV.

But there we go again bringing in outside agents to vicariously take the fall.
"It has served us well, this myth of Christ" ...Pope Leo X