Born again... and again?

reply to post by windword

Jesus did not require one to love him, in order to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. He did require love for God, whom he didn't claim to be, love for neighbor and love for your enemies.

I was going to write this, but you stated it better.

reply to post by Deetermined


You're confusing what is written down in the bible with religions teaching of it. Please don't insist that religion is the bible.

WHAT IF the bible DOES teach reincarnation, only religion has come in and deliberately interpreted it wrong? Would you believe that's a possibility?

reply to post by jhill76


What did Jesus say?

Matthew 10:32-33

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

followed by....

Matthew 10:37

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

And why did he say this? What did he say right before he said to love GOD with all of your heart?

Mark 12:28-29

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

But, I'm still betting that most of you don't understand what was just said here. Just in case you missed it, go back and read Matthew 10:32-33 again as well as Matthew 10:37.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You're confusing what is written down in the bible with religions teaching of it. Please don't insist that religion is the bible.

WHAT IF the bible DOES teach reincarnation, only religion has come in and deliberately interpreted it wrong? Would you believe that's a possibility?

edit on 14-10-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Why do you keep asking the same questions over and over? I've already answered this question. In fact, I've had to answer all of your questions over and over again because you haven't read what I wrote the first time. Maybe it's time to reflect on what's already been posted.

reply to post by Deetermined


Why didn't you reply this to the OP? But, I will respond.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Another explained it better

If we are not willing to give up all earthly possessions, and forsake all earthly friends, and if we do not obey him rather than all others, we have no true attachment to him.

Meaning, love him in the way, that you will listen to him. As, many only listen to ones whom they love. If you cannot adhere to what he said, then you are not worthy of him.

Originally posted by jhill76

Another explained it better

If we are not willing to give up all earthly possessions, and forsake all earthly friends, and if we do not obey him rather than all others, we have no true attachment to him.

Meaning, love him in the way, that you will listen to him. As, many only listen to ones whom they love. If you cannot adhere to what he said, then you are not worthy of him.

Read Matthew 10:32-33 again.

He said if you deny HIM, you deny the Father. He said to confess HIM before men. He did not say as long as you confess that you've listened to him or if you obeyed his teachings.

reply to post by Deetermined


You mean this post? If so, take a look at THIS. It's a good reference for seeing how much Paul contradicts Jesus, but I'm sure you'll shrug it off as nonsense though.

reply to post by Deetermined

He said if you deny HIM, you deny the Father. He said to confess HIM before men. He did not say as long as you confess that you've listened to him or if you obeyed his teachings.

I didn't speak on anything about denying him at all. You stated about the love part, that's the only thing I disagreed on, based on your reply to the other poster.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

You mean this post? If so, take a look at THIS. It's a good reference for seeing how much Paul contradicts Jesus, but I'm sure you'll shrug it off as nonsense though.

From your link:

Paul (originally as Saul of Tarsus) was an admitted persecutor of Christians who might have found a more effective way to undermine the followers of Jesus. Perhaps he infiltrated their ranks and taught a doctrine that opposed teachings attributed to Jesus on several fronts, replacing Jesus' alleged teaching of universal, compassionate, selfless action with a selfish teaching of desire to gain a "free gift" of salvation based only on faith and completely devoid of any behavioral requirement or obedience to law, and distracting us from the selfless teachings attributed to Jesus.

Not true. Paul never told anyone that the "free gift" of salvation was a free pass devoid of any behavioral requirement. He gave them plenty of instruction on keeping God's commandments. The "free gift" just didn't require sacrifices for the cleansing of sins. Ask for forgiveness and you receive. No animal sacrifice required.

Another time during his ministry, Jesus taught that the people who would go to heaven (be saved) must be as little children (Matt. 18:4-5; 19:14; Mark 9:36-37; 10:14-15; Luke 18:15-17), while Paul wrote that maturity demands us to forsake the things of childhood (I Cor 13:11).

Not true. Paul used the following verse after 1 Corinthians 13:11 to confirm what Jesus taught.

1 Corinthians 13:11-12

11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.

12 Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

In his last teaching before going to the upper room for the Last Supper and the "beginning of the end," Jesus described in Matt. 25:31-45 the final judgment as being based solely and entirely on behavioral responses to internalized compassion. And Jesus makes it very clear that those who DO express universal compassion in behavioral action WILL BE SAVED, and those who do not will NOT be saved. Period. There is no other qualification.

Not true. The sheep and the goat judgement is not the final judgement. It is only the judgement that takes place before the start of the Millennium, not the New Jerusalem.

Do I really need to go on?

www.wordwiz72.com...

reply to post by Deetermined


Since this thread is about reincarnation being the possible meaning of "born again," I would ask you, "Do you believe in the pre-existence of the soul? Do you believe the soul is immortal?

reply to post by windword


I believe being "born again" means being filled with the Holy Spirit, not being reincarnated into another physical body.

Edit to add: No, I don't believe in pre-existence of the soul. I believe we are born with a soul in which the Holy Spirit comes to reside after we've accepted it into our soul.

reply to post by Deetermined


You didn't answer my question. Do you believe in the pre-existence of the soul. Do you believe that the soul is immortal?

reply to post by windword


Sorry, I edited my answer after I realized I didn't answer the full question.

reply to post by Deetermined

No, I don't believe in pre-existence of the soul. I believe we are born with a soul in which the Holy Spirit comes to reside after we've accepted it into our soul.

You believe, at birth, the soul is created?

reply to post by Deetermined


Okay, so do you believe that the body and inexplicably connected? In your opinion, can one have a "out of body" experience?

If God creates a soul for every fertilized embryo, does it continue to exist after the body is dead? Is the soul immortal? If so, where are the soul of the dead saints now? Asleep in their graves, or resting in paradise? And, what has become of the souls of the naughty and not so nice?

reply to post by windword


Yes, I believe in out of body experiences and I do believe that all souls continue on after death of the body until the Great White Throne judgement. After the final judgement, I think it's debatable as to whether the soul will continue to live on into eternal life or not. I believe the "unrighteous" souls will either go into an eternal existence separated from God or will be destroyed, but not 100% sure of which.

reply to post by Deetermined

But, I'm still betting that most of you don't understand what was just said here.

As per usual, there you go!
Dismissing the "understanding " of "most of us"......

"Most of you don't understand"

= IGNORANT

ig·no·rant/ˈignərənt/
Adjective:
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy".

www.thefreedictionary.com...
and, Dee, you have several questions asked of you in the thread, answers are still pending.

Ignorance | Easy to understand definition of ignorance by Your ...
www.yourdictionary.com › Dictionary Definitions

Ignorance is being unaware, uneducated or unknowledgeable.

"an unlearned group incapable of understanding complex issues"; "exhibiting contempt ...

I'm sorry, Dee. My patience is wearing thin.
I do enjoy our interactions, though.
(Even though you will tell me, or "wager", that I don't)......
sigh

All I'm asking is some recognition.
Some validation from you that we who don't see it your way are not idiots. and answers to the very clear questions you've been aksed..

But, it's fine. If you can't, that's fine. You'll get there eventually. We all will.

Originally posted by jhill76

You believe, at birth, the soul is created?

I do not believe that we existed as souls in Heaven before we were born on earth, but I would change my mind if I thought there was enough evidence in scripture that we existed before our human existence.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by jhill76

You believe, at birth, the soul is created?

I do not believe that we existed as souls in Heaven before we were born on earth, but I would change my mind if I thought there was enough evidence in scripture that we existed before our human existence.

Now I understand you. It has to be in the bible for you to believe. There are many things not listed there.
- The process of soul creation
- How does Father be in one place at more than one time
- How a person can leave the body, etc.

But, that doesn't mean they are not true, they are just not written in full detail.

reply to post by wildtimes


Hey, I'm not holding you back from giving your interpretation, but I think we both know that your understanding and my understanding are going to differ. Why don't you go ahead and give us your interpretation based on all of the verses I used to cross reference my understanding.