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Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril .. Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons

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posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:06 PM
reply to post by RobinB022

I won't.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:21 PM

Originally posted by bigyin
I know this sort of thing has been raised before, especially with firms like Sony who hate it when second hand dvd's are sold, because they see it as them losing a sale.

Not only that, but I'm sure the government has a hand in this too. They probably hate losing the tax dollars when people don't buy an item new off the shelf.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:25 PM
reply to post by bigyin

The issue at hand isn't what you make it out to be. After reading the article in full and some of the more knowledgeable comments on that page it seems this only affects copyright / distribution laws in this case specifically and NOT the purchase / sale / re-sale of items.

The issue *I* have with this is the price gouging by Wiley. I know markets and exchange rates are different among countries but wow - 1.2 million in differences (and the guy still sold them below market price here). This is clearly price gouging at it's finest. Companies should NOT be allowed to price gouge us while offering the book overseas on the cheap then not allowing us to re-sell them here and undercut them. They accuse Kirtsaeng (sp?) of cheating them out of profits, but aren't they doing the very same thing to us by offering the same materials at discount prices in Thailand but preventing us from re-selling them? Quid pro Quo.

At a minimum it seems like shady business practices.

I'm with Kirtsaeng (sp) here. I don't think it was copyright infringement either. He didn't "reproduce" the books and sold them. He re-sold them and beat them at their own game. Next time Wiley, don't be douchebags and price gouge American students who already elbow deep in student loans.

ETA: I'd also like to point out something about Wiley's books. On the inside they explicitly state that books purchased in Thailand are authorized for sale in Europe, the Middle east and Asia. But they are not authorized for sale outside of Europe, the Middle east and Asia.

Does this make any sense at all? So, if Kirtsaengs family bought the books in Thailand and resold them in Europe (where the Euro is much stronger then the Thai currency) there wouldn't be a problem. However, since he decided to re-sell them in America where Wily Corp. had a lock down on the market and were price gouging nowwww there's a problem. I don't think so Wiley....this is more clear then ever now that Wiley is upset that they were beaten at their own game, and they knew what they were doing. I really hope the Supreme Court makes the right decision here.

edit on 8-10-2012 by zeeon because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:31 PM
reply to post by bigyin

The more these lawmakers push more of these ridiculous laws, the more the people are waking up to the insanity of it all and will begin to ignore all the laws they push on us that are wrong. Think of it, can't feed the homeless, can't grow a garden.... they have pushed to far...people will just start ignoring this stupid stuff and rightly so.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:48 PM
reply to post by bigyin
This is never going to happen.
Even a suprem Court Judge has things he, she would sell.

And talk about that song, "you say you want a Revolution", Well?

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:58 PM
The solution to this problem is to find out who is trying to pass these bills and hang them high for the corporate world to see! Put a spot light on the faces of these evil doers!
edit on 8-10-2012 by imitator because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 11:18 PM
This makes me think about taking all of my stuff to the front lawn of these reps who introduced this law and setting it on fire.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 11:30 PM
Good! Do it, I say. Perhaps we can actually bring work back to the American people, instead of greedy corporations taking advantage of poor workers in foreign countries to maximize their profits, while giving a big middle finger to the United States.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 11:58 PM
reply to post by bigyin

This law is not only non sense, but it would be impossible to enforce it anyway.
Won't pass because it won't work.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 12:04 AM
Here is what I would do.

The only items I will accept to buy would be sold with a contract waiving any further rights and claims the manufacturer has on their product.

Once this example starts to be followed and spreads, customers everywhere would start to request and soon 'demand' a waiver with any product they seek to purchase, else they simply would not buy it.

Those who refuse reveal themselves for the greedy, profiteering bastards they really are and lose their business in favour of those who deserve it.

Their laws would become redundant overnight.

I really don't see any danger here, simply further stupidity and cupidity to expose - I certainly hope they try it though, I always love a good laugh at the expense of greedy fools.

There is a critical mass beyond which compliance simply doesn't happen. You cannot put 310,000,000 Americans in jail.

edit on 9-10-2012 by D377MC because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:27 AM
reply to post by hotbread

Nobody is trying to pass a law.
It's a court case.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:47 AM
reply to post by bigyin

Whose going to enforce this?

Nobody I know.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 01:55 AM
reply to post by intrptr

I know it's a bit off topic but I hear you on the flea market/peddler angle. I absolutely cannot stand hearing people talk about me as if I'm not there: "Why not get a real job?" THEN they proceed to ask a million questions as to how they might go about it, as if it were easy. I only do it a few times a year to sell dream catchers and homemade moccasins, etc. (I make all of my items myself.)

They just don't see ANY of the hard work that goes on before during ,or after the market. I've been doing it for 11 years. I was selling bottled water outside a state fair 2/1.00 (fair was charging $3 a piece on the inside.) An idiot walks up to me and says "So the fair just LETS you do this?" I said "first of all the fair doesn't own this property. second, I have to buy a $90 permit. third I have to scour the paper weeks ahead of time for discount water, buy 24 cases at a time, go back to the store, do it again,
go home and get as much as possible into the freezers, then load the coolers (big marine types weighing about 275-300lbs. at capacity ) and I do it all by MYSELF. At the end of the day I do it all over again. And that isn't taking the little things into consideration like ice and gas and bad weather. I could stand here all day telling you what it takes to make this function but I've got money to make so if you will excuse me please."

Rarely do I see people come back to do it again the next year because it's not as easy as they thought. There is no magical fairy loading and packing and unloading, etc. What's really sad is that most people have so little self direction I don't know how they'd function without someone's thumb up their a## all day. Whether this law effects me or not , I'm going to keep doing what in my heart I know is right. I may sound a bit apocalyptic , but I'm not going down without a fight. I will fight, in little ways, medium ways, and very big ways.

you say you wanna revolution?
Here's a little piece of advice grandpa gave me about fighting in little ways:The squeaky wheel gets the grease Make call after call after call.
Write letter after letter after letter. Set a goal of 10 letters and 2 phone calls a day. Then slowly raise the bar. Easy to accomplish if you turn off the TV. I'm not assuming that none of you do, but I'll bet the majority don't. Don't just whine to each other. I love ATS but some of the apathy here is disheartening, considering the motto is "DENY IGNORANCE."
edit on 9-10-2012 by bangoli because: to add

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 02:43 AM
I bought a new very expensive Compaq computer and on the month right after the warranty ran out Microsoft remotely disabled it.

They used their new "WGA/ Windows Genuine Authority" software to shut it down. While I was going thru family photos a little bubble popped up saying "this computer doesn't appear to be genuine" (can't remember the EXACT words) and the little yellow bubble dropped down. Then the computer shut down and wouldn't start back up. Only went to a screen saying the software wasn't genuine.

I called Compaq and they said its Microsofts fault, call them.

I called Microsoft and they said they can see every computer on the Internet and they saw my legitimate Windows XP and they saw another computer using the same XP key so they disabled BOTH. Even tho mine was legit and the other one was some punk who used a key generator to create a key for his bootleg software.

Microsoft permanently disabled the software and I lost thousands of family photos, music, videos of the kids.

That's when I found out in Amerika, we have NO rights to property. My kids and our extended family have sworn off Microsoft and anything connected to them.

The computers now all have switches in the Bios to permanently disable their motherboards. Google "Intel vPro" or "Intel Insider". Microsoft crawled in bed with Phoenix Bios in 2003 to create hardware kill switches for them.

And there's not a dang thing anyone in the world can do to them when they switch off YOUR hardware.

Amerika has no property rights.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 04:07 AM

the above article is still active, i just checked.

i guess what companies are looking for is a tax on the reselling of goods that function with data for example a second hand car with all the bling usb,docking stations whatever. long live perkins straight 4!


posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 04:47 AM

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by hotbread

Nobody is trying to pass a law.
It's a court case.

Dude it doesn't matter if it's not a law being passed ... what it is is a courts translation of an existing law into what it means in reality. Once the big corporations get the law to work for their side they will use it to bash the little guys over the head with.

Do you fancy being sued by Sony or other big corp or having them on your case ??? .... I can tell you it's not fun.

Just responding to their demands is gonna cost you money and stress and is enough to stop anybody doing whatever they are doing.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 05:04 AM
Talk about economic suicide. Whoever brought this to light and pushed this to court needs to be charged for treason for trying to undermine the Constitution, Liberty and Freedom. Freedom is not for sale!! What my money buys belongs to me and the right to resell those items is at my discretion and no other.

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 09:45 AM

edit on 9-10-2012 by MrSmith because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 09:59 AM

Originally posted by bigyin
Dude it doesn't matter if it's not a law being passed ...

It matters in the sense that "they are pursuing a court case" is true, and "they are trying to pass a new law" is not true.
This site is supposed to be about "Deny ignorance".
To me, that includes the kind of false ideas that people run away with when they're failing to read a source properly, in which case it's worth trying to put them right.
One such false idea here is "the government is doing this"; no. this is just a company wanting to protect its interests.
Another is "you won't be allowed to sell second-hand goods or antiques". Even if this court case is won (and it hasn't been won yet), only the original makers can make use of it. If you sell your Picasso, the only person who can sue you under that precedent is Picasso, and he's dead (there's always a time-limit on copyrights, anyway).

edit on 9-10-2012 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 10:26 AM
reply to post by bangoli

Soooo true. People don't get it. Especially at fairs and open markets. Unless selling illegally, nobody gets rich plying their wares at flea markets and such.

I would just like to commend you though for your niche in that oh so unforgiving environment. I sell junk that other people threw away. You on the other hand produce your own goods. You quench peoples thirst, soul their feet and watch over them while they sleep!

Do you mind if I become your disciple and follow you around and stuff?

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