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Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril .. Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons

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posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 11:55 AM
I can appreciate not being able to resale software products. Lets face it, they are pretty easy to "crack", reproduce and mass sell on the black market.

However, not being able to sell a "real" product that you have fairly purchased in the legal markets is kinda crazy. For this example, when I say "real property" I am talking about tangible goods. If I buy a book, or a CD or a DVD at fair market value from a retailer and can turn around and sell it for a mark up percentage on EBay...that's capitalism to me.

It will be interesting to see if "common sense" is applied to this or if the courts will play to the corporatocaracies and monopolies...i.e. the new "Robber Barons".

The "broad brush strokes" that this kind of thing could bring is astounding when you stop and think about it.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:06 PM
This is disgusting. As a business owner who would be threatened by this, i can't help but wonder what else our government will do to screw us over.

Have fun enforcing this.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:09 PM

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
If the guy was actually buying used text books from people who used them or did the guy have his relatives go to the tore and buy them new and then jut send them to him to resell.

I understand both sides of this suit. I think the guy has crossed the line when new items are purchased in other countries and reshipped and exported to be sold locality here in the USA. On the other hand he could be getting legit used books not recycled new purchases which is ok with me.....

I see the problem being not with the guy but with the overseas distributors who sold the books without an export license to prevent this type of "commercial piracy" ........

I don't think this is any comparison to this and for example Ebay. However, I could this law being twisted by corporate America to create a "rental-for-life" society so this is a dangerous precedent in the making.

What if the guy got his mum to go to the shop and buy new books. Then he bought them off his mum for the same price. That would mean they were secondhand, even if they had been unopened.

It's just the same if anyone goes to any other person and buys an article and then sells it again to somebody else. It's called the free market which we all participate in.

The corporation is just peed off cos he is selling their book for cheaper than they do. Why don't Wileys reduce the price of the book to the same for everywhere. problem solved.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:27 PM
reply to post by bigyin

Once you purchase something the old owner has no say over it.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:34 PM

Originally posted by bigyin
I'm not in or from USA but I didnt know whether to laugh or cry at reading this article

It could become illegal to resell your iPhone 4, car or family antiques

Basically it is saying that, if the law is passed, anybody would not be able to sell their possessions if they were made outside of US without first getting permission from the manufacturer.

I know this sort of thing has been raised before, especially with firms like Sony who hate it when second hand dvd's are sold, because they see it as them losing a sale.

But I had no idea that there was a move to apply the 'logic' to everything else.

As the article says, the first thing that will happen is that all manufacturing will be moved out of US to provide the owners with the new powers.

In my opinion it's sheer madness and just another Big Corporation idea to control us even more.

Laws passed outside the UsA are of no concern to us because they DO NOT apply to us.

Thanks for Tooting a Broken Horn !

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Labrynth2012
Laws passed outside the UsA are of no concern to us because they DO NOT apply to us.

The OP is commenting on a court case taking place INSIDE the USA.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 12:49 PM
reply to post by bigyin

this Couldnt Happen in America Right

Well if it did

Welcome to George Orwells 1984 Society !!

Well The Patriot Act was Passed wasnt it NOT!!

as the patriot act is Nothing More of a Advanced

Endabling Act of 1933 & International Security Act of 1950 . A.K.A. McCarren Act Combined

usually People Dont see it as Terrorist is the New Communist in those Two Act Above !

If it does pass

* George Orwell was Right ...

George Carlin was Right

* Jordon Maxwell was Right

* William Cooper was Right

when are People going to wake UP

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 01:16 PM

Originally posted by _BoneZ_
If it does, it will only be on the scale that you can't buy something cheap from another country and re-sell it in the U.S. That is the jist of this court case.

Wow, uhhhh, that's kind of like the whole basis of our retail system. My little retail company buys products from merchants around the world and resells them in the USA and elsewhere. I wonder what Walmart, Target, Kmart etc. will do? They could force everyone to get a re-sale license. I sure don't want to go to jail or face huge fines because I sell my old DVD's.
edit on 8-10-2012 by Gridrebel because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 01:21 PM
reply to post by Gridrebel

You buy from 'vendors". You are a "retail".

What they are talking about here are regular people turning their used items (items they, themselves, bought as "retailers", and sell again, making them also "retailers").

The difference would be if you are a "reseller", which is also common (I buy my companies phone service through a "reseller" who includes it witih all our telephony costs with no markup).

This is an attempt by corporations to make their products that they sell us belong to them. Like Skyfloating mentioned about selling a license agreement.

It is why i don't use Apple products. And why i don't purchase sony products, either.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:00 PM
They are so ignorant. Let them keep making stupid laws like this, we will still do anything we want.....we will sell under the table. The same as always, yet only more after the laws are in place. Only the government will not get their taxes while the people sell in black markets. Very stupid move for a greedy, gluttonous pack of overweight wolves.
edit on 8-10-2012 by Phenomium because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:17 PM
The case is going through court right now and can be followed at This Link

I've tried reading some of the submissions but it all a bit legal speak for me.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:18 PM
reply to post by bigyin

And we just keep on trekking into the abyss. Good find OP.

This brings to mind this quote: "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government, combining super-capitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control ... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." -Larry P. McDonald

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:25 PM
They tried to do the same thing to used record stores two decades ago when they started selling used compact discs. The argument was that the record companies still owned the copyright and therefore you couldn't sell your disc to another person.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:25 PM
And the masses thought "intelectual property rights" were all about stopping illegal downloading. The p2p community knew this was going to happen years ago, it was the logical conclusion to many of the arguments presented in numerous court cases against "infringers". But nobody wanted to listen, nope, instead they repeated the mantra that copying an idea is theft. Well, enjoy your iPhone, forever. Or when youre fined for trying to sell Apples (thought you bought it? Lol) product without their permission, you might want to think back about those folk you slated for downloading a few mp3s and quetly whisper an apology to them.

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:32 PM
reply to post by bigyin

I live in America and I can tell you, this will not happen. Even if it does people will still continue on, just like any other day. That's America! They may pass gun laws but they will never stop women at a yard sale

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:39 PM
After page two no one reads these so This reply is for my own venting benefit

1. To those who say this can never happen, please wake up. It does happen. Granted some items such as software are currently easier to control resale of with licensing. But as we move into more and more things we use today utilizing software to some degree, whose to say this does not set precedent? Wanna sell a car? Car's have computers. They utilize intellectual property. What is stopping a car company from licensing that for one use only? You need to pay us for a new license and we will unlock the computer. Hell, the government already has a hand in resale of cars with taxes. Think about how pliable Washington would be if they saw the dollar signs of a controlled resale environment. New taxes (i.e. free money) across the board! Hot Dog!

2. To those who say this involves only items manufactured overseas, sure. What isn't manufactured overseas either completely or in parts? To profit from not only the initial purchase but all subsequent resales of an item is something corporations will embrace in about 2 seconds. Especially when the taxpayer pays to enforce it. Granted this law may not be currently interpreted as broadly as that but with the promise of hugely increased profits, how many lawyers and lobbyists do you think will descend upon the courts and Washington to help 'expand' the definition? Like they are not there already?

3. To those who say this deals with a very small portion of the economy and few Americans, you are delusional. Because of those who have thought like this in the past, is why we are at this point today. You and your ilk are loved and adored by those who view you as stupid cattle. Yes Moo-Cow, Corporations are people and money is free speech and putting together 2 and 2 is paranoia.

4. How would this affect retailers? They purchase factory direct for arguments sake. They sell someone else's proprietary property to you. When you resell this stuff, you would pay a fee, in theory, to the manufacturer, not the seller. How long do you think that will go over big?

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 02:45 PM
well, the way things are going, it wont be uncommon to walk down to my suburb's "center of town" areas. and barter for food, water, labor, shoes/clothes; anyways.

Wouldnt this help the economy? i mean if there was a bigger profit to manufacturer in the us and then sell in the us, (thus creating jobs in the us) isnt that an incentive?

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 03:06 PM
Looks to me like an attempt to make a barter economy illegal before the crunch comes. Just another way to criminalize your behavior in an excuse to demonstrate your need for re-education.

Courtesy Bill Ayers and his minions..

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Hillarie
What would they do if everyone just ignored this law and sold their stuff. It's their stuff. People have to stop following these stupid laws.

Arrest them and send them to the FEMA camp. Unfortunately, there is no limit to how low your average police officer will sink so long as he gets patted on the back and the media calls him a "hero".

Think about it...every major metropolitan city in America had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER in convincing their officers to deploy tear gas and pepper spray on old ladies and school kids who were only practicing their inalienable rights. Tear gas and pepper spray are listed as CHEMICAL WEAPONS in Article I.5 of the 1993 CWC Treaty to which the United States is a signatory. Likewise, the US Patriot Act CLEARLY STATES that any individual who uses a chemical weapons or acts in aide to someone who uses chemical weapons on an American citizen(s) for any reason at all is a DOMESTIC TERRORIST.

That's right...every cop who was on duty in a precinct that deployed all those riot cops to the Occupy Protests legally considered to be an enemy of the state and arguably guilty of treason...even the guy working in dispatch who only sat at his desk and didn't pepper spray anybody.

If TPTB don't have any problem convincing these thugs to use chemical weapons on 84 year-old Dorli Rainy...they sure as hell won't have any problem convincing them to immediately tase and detain anybody suspected of running a black market yard sale.

Just make sure you relocate your family dog before tempting fate w/ an illegal rummage sale. The cops will use tasers on you...but they won't hesitate to put a dozen or so rounds in a "threatening" border collie or basset hound.

Hell...this 5lb Chihuaha-mix was such a threat to National Security that two grown men had to FIRST tase it...then put a couple of bullets in him.

Full Story Here:
edit on 8-10-2012 by milominderbinder because: formatting

posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 03:52 PM

Originally posted by bloodreviara
this is an argument, in reality, over whether or not you own something you
buy or not, now the copyright BS always bugged me anyway but this
is taking it to the next level, complete insanity, also realistically
its just not enforceable.

they really do actually want to maintain ownership of things these days
don't they? where does that end i wonder?
no more car ownership, only lease, no more tv that's yours to do with
as you please, im tired of things like this, if you sell it to me i believe
you lose all rights to say what i can and cant do with it as its
no longer yours, if they wanna keep it then well they can but
i sure as H E double hockey sticks will not buy.

i will let my money do the talking here and avoid any company that
participates in this like the plague, time to do some consumer research.
i already have a few blacklisted products because those companies
believed they could dictate what we can and can not do with our purchases.

Are you kidding. If this did happen, companies would crop up immediately offering "yours to keep and do with as you please" and everyone would go to them, and the others would all die. Ain't gonna happen. This thing is just about the basic case of buying a ton of books from some other country and selling them here. The article just sensationalizes the "what if" aspect and everyone's biting.

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