A Mystery To Solve - Why the Old Testament Seems Evil - First and Last Adam Hidden

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posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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It is often said that the God of the Old Testament is Evil and the God of the New Testament is Righteous. People go to great lengths on the internet to show the atrocities of the Old Testament in light of the life of Jesus. Is there a contradiction? I will show you here that the mystery and paradox only needs the excluded middle to be seen correctly. Am I correct in this mystery? You decide. As you read, my main contention is that Adam and Jesus may have been the same soul and here with us all along.

The answer to this mystery starts with Adam Kadmon.

Wikipedia states this: "...the "Adam Soul" is described as the primeval soul that contained all human souls. And in the same way as many impressions are made of one seal, and many images of one man, so from each single idea of the objects of sense a multitude of individual natures are formed, from the idea of man all men, and in like manner in the case of all other things in nature."

This is the Hebrew version of Adam as the first soul that was broken into all souls alive.

What does the New Testament say?

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Can we connect this by seeing the communion bread and cup?

1 Corinthians 10

And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Of course, all symbols in the Bible have a root meaning. The loaf that we are all cut from is the Son of God. Our bodies all come from the same loaf of bread. Who then is the Father of mankind? This honor is Adam, but we can't stop there. From this point on, keep the following in mind:

In the Bible, there are two archetypes in a mirror, starring with good and evil. First, we have the fallen Adam as a Father, followed by the righteous Abraham as the Father of the Nation of Israel. We then have the sin of Issac that parallels the sins of Abraham. Issac is the fallen Son and Jesus is the Righteous Son. Between Issac and Jesus we see the fallen King--David. David is the parallel archetype for the Savior King and Jesus in His return as King of Kings on the Day of the Lord.

Here is where we need to think. Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." There is a parallel in this as well. The Father of the Son is God can be seen as God Himself. The Father of man is the Son of God as Adam. Adam is the first Father of mankind, followed by Abraham. Here, again, is a moment to think. When Jesus said, "You must be born again," did this apply to Him as well? Did Adam pay the price for falling by being born again?

We have a clue from Job.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

The Redeemer that Job speaks of is the future Messiah. We also see the significance of being born again in these verses as Job knew he would return. As I said before, all symbols have a root meaning. Our immersion into the material world is our baptism to be raised to new life. Job knew both facts. He would return and His Redeemer would be seen by Him on Earth. This is where Job next reveals something hidden in a mystery.

Remember the context of what he just said. He was referring to the Redeemer.

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

The root of the trouble lies in him. Who is 'HIM'? Obviously, he is referring to the Redeemer, but as an illusion to the error of Adam. Did Job know that Adam would Redeem mankind? Go back to Jesus words about being one with the Father.

John 10

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Do you see the mystery revealing itself? If not, let me help. Jesus says that "I and the Father are one." Which Father? All of them. Who is the first born? Adam. Who was the last Adam? Jesus. Adam Kadmon is the water that the dew comes from. I will explain the dew later.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Who is the first man? Adam. Now read this:

1 Corinthians 15

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

Now that I have outlined this, how does this reveal the Old Testament against the New Testament? Why does the morality and understanding in the Bible seem to evolve? I believe that it is a reflection of Adam overcoming the error by experience. The Lord of the Earth has always been YHVH (Behold the Hand, Behold the Nail). The Lord is the Son of God.

Did Adam, Abraham, David and other Fathers sin? Yes. The Bible is a reflection of the first Adam to the Last. The Lord is the same soul as that of the others. We are all partakers of the same loaf of bread. The communion and cup is something we all share in common with Christ. He has been there all along. The stages of the Bible reflect what it took for Adam to become the redeemer of mankind so that he could know no sin in his final life. As Jesus said, "You must be born again."

Before you judge God, realize that you are judging Christ, the redeemer of mankind.

Job 19

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

Be careful how you hound God for his Word. God did everything for us in the end. Again, this is a mystery. I may be wrong. However, the Son makes much more sense in the light of seeing what the Word of God is actually telling us.

I said earlier that I would tell you what the dew represented.

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

Water drops in the form of dew comes from the larger body of water. The dew represents life and water of baptism. We are the droplets that come from the larger body of the Son of God. Go back and read 1 Corinthians 10 now. You will be enlightened.

LISTEN

God has always been good, righteous and loving. To see the Bible and know the story from beginning to end, you can see that it was all done for one purpose. That purpose is grand in scale and allows for life to do three things.

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

Apart from doing, there can be no understanding. In the end, we will look back at our life (lives) and have a reflecting point for the lessons that come next. God is our Father and we are His Children.

1 Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.



edit on 7-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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And also David-pbuh sleeps with his commander's wife and then he kills him ?

Is that right ?
edit on 7-10-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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Ive always looked at it as.

OT= Gods view of Sin.

NT= Gods view of the sinner.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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As they say in the semanaries, "The New Testament, in which God is in a much better mood."



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by mideast
And also David-pbuh sleeps with his commander's wife and then he kills him ?

Is that right ?
edit on 7-10-2012 by mideast because: (no reason given)


Yes. This reflects the nature of of being baptized to raise to new life. Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the water so that animal can be sacrificed. The fire of the altar is the trials we experience. Water puts out fire and cleanses the temple (Body and Soul). The veil keeps us from seeing the process. In terms of the linguistics of the Bible, the Amnion is the sack that holds the Amniotic fluid. It also makes the world amnesia. The root of this word is related linguistically to lamb. In other words, the wool is pulled over the eyes of the sheep so the Shepherd can sheer the sin away. He then washes it white as snow and returns it to us in the form of the robe mentioned in the book of Revelation.

David is one step in this process from Adam to Jesus. It is a mystery, but I believe mysteries can be solved if we seek and knock.

Amnion Thread
edit on 7-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
As they say in the semanaries, "The New Testament, in which God is in a much better mood."


Take the time to read the thread. God does not change. Adam was raised by the experience and the testament to this experience is the Bible. What happens between Adam and Jesus is the same process of our own animal being sacrificed on the altar by fire and then cleansed by water. Take the time to read. It is worth the effort.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by benrl
Ive always looked at it as.

OT= Gods view of Sin.

NT= Gods view of the sinner.


Yes. As Galatians says, the law was a guardian.

Galatians 3

Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If you read the OP carefully, you can see how God raises children. We are prodigal sons here and we can return for the inheritance. The process Adam goes through to become Jesus is the mystery we all pass through. It's brilliant when you step back to consider what is done for us as a gift from God.

Death is swallowed up in victory. Adam the man becomes Adam the Spirit. We all pass this trail of baptisms.

Consider these five baptisms I have mentioned before on ATS. The are all listed in the Bible. 3 are stated and 2 implied.


Earth - We are planted into the Garden. We are not rooted in the soil like plants or in a fixed domain like fish. Instead, we can occupy all domains. This autonomy requires that we overcome these domains by hardships. The wilderness we occupy was provided to allow our growth by experience.

Air - We are given the Word of God as a guide to the wilderness. This word is also the language we learn and master. Meaning ultimately comes when we decipher the inner symbols of nature and overcome our ignorance and pride of the outer world. Meaning springs from the root, just like a plant.

Water - We are baptized into the Water (Immersion into Reality). The water cleanses the temple (body). The temple is where the sacrifice is made. This temple houses the spirit of God, along with our soul. We are to overcome as we are born again. "You must be born again." Plants die and the seed perpetuates to the next generation. Producing fruit ensures seed for the next crop.



Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.


Fire - We are finally baptized by Trials. The Flaming Sword of God cuts away pride and protects the tree of life. The tree of life is DNA. We light the fire we burn by. We can also put out the fire with the water.

Spirit - After overcoming the first four baptisms, we are then baptized by the Spirit of God. Jesus is necessary for us to be marked by the spirit for salvation from the Fire. The water and blood of Christ brings salvation from the corruption of the elements.



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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nevermind
edit on 7-10-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Here is a word study on the Job verse. Some translations say that the root of the problem is in me instead of him. Here is the world study. I assume the root of the error is in all of us, yet the translation of him seems to be the stronger translation here. In light of Job speaking of the redeemer, this could go either way.



The Vulgate, "Why now do ye say, let us persecute him, and find ground of accusation - "radicem verbi" against him?" The Septuagint, "If you also say, What shall we say against him? and what ground of accusation - ῥίζαν λόγου rizan logou - shall we find in him?" Rosenmuller renders it, "When you say, let us persecute him, and see what ground of accusation we can find in him, then fear the sword." Most critics concur in such an interpretation as implies that they had sought a ground of accusation against him, and that they would have occasion to fear the divine displeasure on account of it. It seems to me, however, that our translators have given substantially the fair sense of the Hebrew. A slight variation would, perhaps, better express the idea: "For you will yet say, Why did we persecute him? The root of the matter was found in him - and since this will be the case, fear now that justice will overtake you for it, for vengeance will not always slumber when a friend of God is wronged."

Seeing the root of the matter - Margin, "and" what "root of matter is found in me." The word rendered "matter" (דבר dâbâr), "word or thing." means, properly, word or thing - and may refer to "any" thing. Here it is used in one of the two opposite senses, "piety" or "guilt" - as being "the thing" under consideration. The interpretation to be adopted must depend on the view taken of the other words of the sentence. To me it seems that it denotes piety, and that the idea is, that the root of true piety was in him, or that he was not a hypocrite. The word root is so common as to need no explanation. It is used sometimes to denote the "bottom," or the lowest part of anything - as e. g., the foot (see Job 13:27, "margin"), the bottom of the mountains Job 28:9, or of the sea, Job 36:30, "margin." Here it means the foundation, support, or source - as the root is of a tree; and the sense, I suppose, is, that he was not a dead trunk, but he was like a tree that had a root, and consequently support and life. Many critics, however, among whom is Gesenius, suppose that it means that the root of the controversy, that is, the ground of strife, was in "him," or that he was the cause of the whole dispute.


LINK



posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Peace to you again enoch. I do not have much to say besides Jesus and adam did not have the same soul. My reasoning starts with the original sin, which did not bear a mark on Jesus. Also adam was not born of a woman, but a woman made him born of the flesh. In adam's case, a woman conceives the adam of sin, the first man of the flesh to procreate by the deed of sinning with eve. Mary was conceived without sin, gave birth without sin, and bore a Man, free of original sin. Mary gave us the Word of God, while eve put us to slavery. Adam gave in to tamarin of the only sin, and Christ is sinless.

Adam is the representation of our coming into the flesh, our alliance with sin.

Christ is our representation of leaving sin, being born again, and choosing to live as God wants us to live.
Jesus is the representation of what Adam SHOULD have been.

The OT is man's descent into sin, and the NT is our ascent out and toward Life.

Enoch, it seems to me you are chasing shadows, nonetheless, peace to you.
edit on 7-10-2012 by backcase because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Peace to you again enoch. I do not have much to say besides Jesus and adam did not have the same soul. My reasoning starts with the original sin, which did not bear a mark on Jesus. Also adam was not born of a woman, but a woman made him born of the flesh. In adam's case, a woman conceives the adam of sin, the first man of the flesh to procreate by the deed of sinning with eve. Mary was conceived without sin, gave birth without sin, and bore a Man, free of original sin. Mary gave us the Word of God, while eve put us to slavery. Adam gave in to tamarin of the only sin, and Christ is sinless.

Adam is the representation of our coming into the flesh, our alliance with sin.

Christ is our representation of leaving sin, being born again, and choosing to live as God wants us to live.
Jesus is the representation of what Adam SHOULD have been.

The OT is man's descent into sin, and the NT is our ascent out and toward Life.

Enoch, it seems to me you are chasing shadows, nonetheless, peace to you.
edit on 7-10-2012 by backcase because: (no reason given)


Those are good thoughts. I especially like the parallel between being born of a woman verses being born of God. Mary fits this verse in 1 Timothy.

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

I think the key is to know why God never mentioned the Holy Spirit as Female. In all of scripture, the trinity of Father Son and Mother completes the family, but is not mentioned as such in God's family. There is yet another mystery here.

I do not think that the Son of God can be anyone other than Adam to Jesus. There can only be one and Adam Kadmon is what the Hebrews call the first man. In the end, we must return to the origin of the tradition. From Adam came the first woman by way of the rib. What is the difference with Jesus birth? The Holy Spirit is the difference in this case. Mary was given child from the Holy Spirit of God. I think there may be some significance to the androgynous tradition of Adam being both male and female. The fact that we will not be given in marriage after we have been translated is also a clue. The two finally become one again. The same is true for the soul and spirit. The two become one in the Son.

I also draw from the episode with Peter when they caught the 153 fish. This is the 17th triangular number and the square root of 2 by ratio. The ratio makes the intersecting circles (1:1.415) that Pathagrous called the measure of the fish. We get the vesica pisces from this (Christian Fish). This is important because it represents, according to Pathagrous, the difference between unity and multiplicity. Peter was being told to fish on the 'right' side of the boat. Truth is the difference between a house divided or a house unified. In this case, Peter represents Rome. Babylon must be destroyed for man to reach his lowest point and return to God by reaching out his hand for help.

The one loaf of bread that we are all pulled from and the cup that is poured out to create us all must return to unity. The prodigal son must return to the Father. This is truly the only symbolism that can answer the broader questions of what scripture implies. Read 1 Corinthians 10 to 14. You'll see it. Read Hebrews and you will see it. We have one high priest. Until the animal is fully sacrificed, the temple that Christ builds back and raises cannot be fixed. This is the sign of Jonah and Jesus taking three days to build the temple back again. 3 days is 3000 years. We are currently at 2000 years and 1000 remains before salvation comes, which is the reign of Christ in men. 1000 years of peace need to happen. Read this now and see that I am right.

The Blood of Christ represents new DNA.

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

Evil must first be removed while the righteous rest in their chambers above.





edit on 8-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Peace to you enoch, I will give you the main thought of what I said.

adam, and all who are born of man, have the stain of the original sin. Mary was born to a barren mother therefore, a mirical child born by God's grace. She was without stain, and is called the NEW Eve. Jesus also being born without sin makes Him the NEW Adam. Their souls are not shared.

Jesus represents what man would have been if not for the Sin, adam represents the souls of all men who, being &ll stained with the OS, are all sinners. There is no reincarnation, but only incarnation.

Peace to you



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by EnochWasRight_javascript:hyperlink()
 


Peace to you enoch, I will give you the main thought of what I said.

adam, and all who are born of man, have the stain of the original sin. Mary was born to a barren mother therefore, a mirical child born by God's grace. She was without stain, and is called the NEW Eve. Jesus also being born without sin makes Him the NEW Adam. Their souls are not shared.

Jesus represents what man would have been if not for the Sin, adam represents the souls of all men who, being &ll stained with the OS, are all sinners. There is no reincarnation, but only incarnation.

Peace to you


Yet Hebrews 4:15 says, "15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin."

"Provision was made in the Law of Moses for the poor person who was forced to sell part of his property or himself into slavery. His nearest of kin could step in and "buy back" what his relative was forced to sell (Leviticus 25:48f). The kinsman redeemer was a rich benefactor, or person who frees the debtor by paying the ransom price. "If a fellow countryman of yours becomes so poor he has to sell part of his property, then his nearest kinsman is to come and buy back what his relative has sold" (Leviticus 25:25; cf. Ruth 4:4, 6). " LINK

Who is our nearest kinsman? Jesus was required to be a kinsman, not a special creation made separate from our own form, likeness and structure. Why does Matthew start with the genealogies going all the way back to Abraham the Father? Apart from the connection back to Adam's sin and the Father of the nation, there is no kinsman relationship. The excluded middle to see here is that we're are all taken from the same loaf of communion and poured from the same cup. We are all one with God as God is one.

1 Corinthians 10

15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

One question to ask. Are we all from the same Father?

John 8:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Abraham is the Father of the nation of Israel. Jesus allows for the mass of humanity to find salvation from the sin of Adam through the Father of the nation, but we are all cut from the same loaf. That loaf is found in this verse:

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Who was everything created by and where did the error come from?

Hebrews 1

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

The context of the passage in Job is of the redeemer. The root of the trouble lies in him, yet if we hound him, we judge ourselves. Why? We are all cut from the same loaf. We share the error. In the end, the error is what brings the remedy. God intended this for the raising of his children. The son is the pattern for baptism. Immersion into the material world so that we can ALL be raised the same as Christ.

God raises his Son. That Son is all of us. Can we accuse God of error? No. This was the purpose from the beginning. There is no error. He reveals error in us to show the difference between the Created and the Creator. Love comes from suffering and longing for a higher calling.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

God came as one of us to show us what is possible. We are all Sons of God. To find salvation, we follow the pattern God shows us to escape the error. That error is ours in the end, but his by design.



edit on 9-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Peace to you again, but you didn't really get what I was saying. Adam and Jesus do not share souls, but Jesus resembles what adam was before the sin.



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Peace to you again, but you didn't really get what I was saying. Adam and Jesus do not share souls, but Jesus resembles what adam was before the sin.



Sure, but were we all cut from one loaf? Are we patterned from the one in this verse?

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Here is yet another key to this. Notice its proximity to Job 19 and the verses of the redeemer and the error mentioned.

Job 18

3 Amid disquieting dreams in the night,
when deep sleep falls on people,
14 fear and trembling seized me
and made all my bones shake.
15 A spirit glided past my face,
and the hair on my body stood on end.
16 It stopped,
but I could not tell what it was.
A form stood before my eyes,
and I heard a hushed voice:
17 ‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?
18 If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,
19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!
20 Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;
unnoticed, they perish forever.
21 Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,
so that they die without wisdom?’

Houses of clay are the mortals made from the dust. The tent is our temporary dwelling here. The one soul that lives on Earth is the Son of God, the one loaf we are all cut from. The light is divided from the darkness and the one returns to unity. The wheat is divided from the chaff. A new heavens and earth emerge and the process starts over without the error. Now, go back to 1 Corinthians 10 as I suggested before and read of the one body. We are that body.

edit on 9-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Great topic!

The Old Testament shows types and anti-types of Christ. Even many of the violent events found in the OT attest to this view. The New Testament shows Christ revealed. Everything we do in the Church has its fulfillment in Christ. The Jewish feasts/festivals have their fulfillment in the feasts of the Church. We fast as well. I don't see the Church ignoring the Old Testament- just the opposite- actually.

Frankly- perhaps the perception of a different God isn't that God is different- but that people are looking at things the wrong way. I'll give an example- Psalm 137:9 "Happy [shall he be], that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." This is one of my favorite psalms that we sing during the Great Fast before Pascha (By the Waters of Babylon). I totally agree with it. Little ones refers to our sins being dashed when we repent and turn to Christ.

It is important to note that Christ fulfilled the law, he didn't abolish it. The Church has never been bound by all 613 commandments. Your clue is to look to the New Testament. The Council of Jerusalem as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles clarified a lot of things for Christians. In Acts 15:19-20 we're told to abstain from what has been strangled, from blood, and from any food and other things offered to idols, and sexual immorality. These things are referred to in the New Testament as being prohibited to believers and are still in effect as far as the Church canons are concerned.

The early Christians had liturgy based off of Jewish liturgical worship (Christ and the apostles were Jewish)- except everything about Christian worship is understood to be fulfilled in Christ- and the worship of the Jews was transformed by Christ who fulfilled everything they had been waiting for.

We are told in Romans that we are justified by faith.

The conclusion of the narrative is that while man changes and may be unfaithful, God does not change and He remains faithful.

As Gentiles failed to keep the natural law, so Jews failed to keep the Law of Moses. In summary, all are sinners before God. Verse 23 tells us that even if we should keep the Law, we would still fall short of the Glory of God, for we would still die and need salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ alone lived in complete righteousness. He alone was resurrected to the Eternal Life. Concluding that only through the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the way to God Himself (also John 14:6).

Justification by faith is a complex topic. As Christians, we are no longer under the auspices of the Old Testament Law as written in the Holy Book of Romans 3:20 because the Lord Jesus Christ has fulfilled the Law (Galatians 2:21). By the mercy of God, we are brought into a New Covenant relationship with Him. Through this mercy we are justified by faith and EMPOWERED by God for good works which bring glory to His Holy Name. SUSCopts.org


Some great articles about this topic:
The Old Testament in the New Testament Church
The Old Testament Regarding the Messiah

I highly recommend this podcast series on the bible to you. Dr. Constantinou of the University of San Diego essentially covers what she would in one of her survey courses. This goes in depth on many topics of scripture (old and new), including schools of interpretation, why books were included in the canon, why gnostic texts weren't, etcetera. You can look at the page to find all of her other podcasts.
ancientfaith.com...

ETA: I also kind of touched on the new Adam thing in this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 9-10-2012 by LeSigh because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Adam to Jesus creation to son
GOD creator to father
Anyone that raised offspring can understand.
Just my simple view on our situation.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Jesus is not Adam reincarnated. Adam was never the only begotten Son of God. Jesus is the Memra, the Word of God. He is God's Voice, the Voice crying in the wilderness. God's Voice has always been with him, but he first manifested when he spoke. When he spoke his glory manifested and created. It was the Son of God's hands that forged Adam from the earth. The Son of God is the physical manifestation of God's Glory, his Power. The Son of God is Yahweh manifested.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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I remember seeing something on National Geographic, about the Gospel of Judas. The interesting thing, I found, is the part where the apostles are giving prayer of thanks for their food, and Jesus laughs (a lot) and asks why they are now angry? Then he says the God who created this world is not worthy of worship. He is not the one, true God.

I know a lot of bible readers probably won't give a second thought about this, but I found it interesting. I have always felt that we didn't get the whole story. The Bible seems to be missing pieces. And besides, the Old Testament is really the Jewish Old Testament, with a lot of editing (no Lilith, Adam's first wife). If they don't give us the whole story, how can we ever truly understand? And if the God that created this world isn't the same God that created us, who's to say he wasn't in a pissy mood?

Anyway, what you say makes sense, in that we all came from the same source, and Jesus could have been a reincarnation of Adam. It's something to ponder.



posted on Oct, 13 2012 @ 06:46 PM
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I have come to a conclusion on this matter. I posted it here: LINK Essentially, in the OP, I was exploring the idea that Jesus lived more than one life. My conclusion is that we are all part of that life. It's not just a few throughout history, it's the whole lot of us. I am not suggesting that we are Christ, but we are all cut from the same loaf. The Shepherd and Lord of mankind is the same Spirit of God that is in us all. We are all imaged from the first image, therefore, the Son of God is in all lives lived. He suffers what we suffer because we are cut from that first loaf and He is in and through us, just as the Bible states. God is one.

The key to this is stated here:

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

It is reflected in this concept: Adam Kadmon

edit on 13-10-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)





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