It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is teaching humans to be good people evil?

page: 9
3
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage


You consider most people to be generally irresponsible with their position of power because they get carried away and forget their responsibilies. You admit to yourself you could yourself be circumvented with the vice of power, and its irresistable offers. I would surmise that subconsciously you realise you have a certain limit to be able to balance power with responsibility beyond which the tables become turned and power will control you physically and mentally. You therefore a way to reduce the risk of this ever happening you shun taking up postiions which could literally seduce you with power.


I think I answered some of that above. But note you misread- I said I do NOT find power irresistable.
I am not sure what you mean by "my power controlling me physically and mentally"- I cannot relate to that any experience I have had.


I wonder if you aren't refering to emotion, or Energy in Motion, as I call it? Emotion is like fuel which moves is used in exercising power- do you mean emotion taking over the will?




posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Trees are not 'self' conscious. Only humans are 'self' conscious. The human has separated itself out of the whole, whereas a tree does not do this.


Think about this for a moment. When we die we go back to the whole. Does that imply when we die we lose awareness of self. I mean literally our consciouness has no more awaress of itself as a me, or as a separate object with a boundary. If there is no boundary then there is no layer for life forces to exert pressure on. There being no pressure then what is the experience that is being experienced in death?

edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)


The 'self' is the separation (the imposter, the false self). Awareness is what you are, is what 'this' is. Awareness is always present, it is always now if you notice. You are the now (presence). There will never be anything but presence.
Things appear and disappear within presence.

The 'me' that humans are afraid of dying is just a bunch of words that give the impression of a 'something'.
In reality you are 'not a thing' - you are the space in which 'things' to appear.
You can either wait until physical death to know oneness or you can realize it now.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:48 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Thinking that you can be evil to yourself is dualistic. How many of you are there? The confusion lies in the wording. It is not 'evil' it is just a mistaken identity. Mistaking yourself to be a person in time when really there is only timeless being.
This is timeless being - the only entity. It is doing everything. There is no separate anything that can do anything. It is done.


When a person finally and arduously climbs the cliff face to the plateau of the timeless being, what does he do?

Does he simply sit down and start meditating realising that everything has been done, or does he encounter a sort of paradox where he realises hes entered a world where ony mystery exists and all acts are folly/false them done to engage it?







posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:51 AM
link   
reply to post by Bluesma
 





I wonder if you aren't refering to emotion, or Energy in Motion, as I call it? Emotion is like fuel which moves is used in exercising power- do you mean emotion taking over the will?


Yes thats exactly what i was referring to, in fact the phrase was in my head but i didnt use it because i thought it might be too general. And Yes the emotion can and does on occassions circumvent the will. A person with a very strong will they are the only exceptions and cant be compromised.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:57 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





The 'self' is the separation (the imposter, the false self). Awareness is what you are, is what 'this' is. Awareness is always present, it is always now if you notice. You are the now (presence). There will never be anything but presence.
Things appear and disappear within presence.

The 'me' that humans are afraid of dying is just a bunch of words that give the impression of a 'something'.
In reality you are 'not a thing' - you are the space in which 'things' to appear.
You can either wait until physical death to know oneness or you can realize it now.


This being the construct of how self relates to the presence then it would be true to say wouldnt it that self is fake, made up as real as a puff of smoke and the presence the force which created the illusion, is actually real and operating like a movie projector?

Now as for realizing death, now none of us here are in a rush to leave this party yet even if it is room decorated with smoke and mirrors.






posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
When a person finally and arduously climbs the cliff face to the plateau of the timeless being, what does he do?

Does he simply sit down and start meditating realising that everything has been done, or does he encounter a sort of paradox where he realises hes entered a world where ony mystery exists and all acts are folly/false them done to engage it?


When it is realized that there are no persons - that there is only timeless being - there is nothing that can be done.
'Who' is going to do it?
Life is seen for the mystery it is and it is seen by no one.
It is just happening.

Check out this video by Mooji, it fits in nicely here.
It's Just a Movie:
youtu.be...
It is just happening.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Bluesma
 


I might even go as far to say that observation of the way a person conducts themselves in life, integrity, matching words and walk, is proportional to the strength of their will power. So a person who genuinely proclaims they can resist temptation and have a track record to back it up, yes they have a strong will power.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:03 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


ill look at vid now



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma
 


What happens if you come across a person who you see as completely unsuitable for a position. Lets just describe them from your vantange point as being Evil. If you saw them going for a position or role that you knew you had a fair chance of winning yourself, would you enter the race and compete for the role?

You realise they wil get role if you dont enter race and compete with them. What would you do, enter the race ..or turn and look the other way?




For one, I cannot see anyone as evil, I do not believe in evil, okay?

If you replace that with them having ideas or a nature which I find destructive or undesireable for the position.... then I would stimulate the whole group to consider their own individual capabilities and desires (so we can all see who would like to take the position and thinks they can handle it) and if no one else seems capable and more able, I will enter the race.





Do you think forums such as this is impregnating people with too many mental ideas? And if a person is injecting ideas then how practically could they perform the protector role?


I cannot make such a judgment for others. Each person can only judge for themselves.

Put it this way-
If you establish a hierarchial relationship with a person, that involves more than just an exchange of ideas.
That involves one person injecting another- one "looking up to" another.
Once they are seeing you as a superior in any given context, then you have the responsibility to

1- Be a living example of the ideas you express. Have integrity.
-This is important because it shows through example how to actually live and manifest the ideas you bring forth. You show it is actually POSSIBLE to do so (they are realistic). It also allwos them to soak up subconsciously, through their mirroring instincts, the behaviors being described, that they have decided they like and want.

2- You have the responsibility of being receptive ot their needs, instead of your own.
-Just like you don't feed your kids a beer when they are thirsty because YOU want a beer,
You pay attention and give them what they need and want instead.
You don't approach those who are your students with methods that are inadapted to them.
Just like in horse training, you don't use a gentle encouragement method with an unruly stallion,
and you don't use a severe impact method on a very young colt. Same with people.

This makes it clear why you cannot go into such positions with the desire to give to others what yourself do not have. You must make sure your needs are fulfilled first.

Look, with all this "You are..." statements I wonder why you are so involved in expressing who I am, instead of using "I" statements and expressing who YOU are?

But overall, I think you have lead yourself astray about the general kind of person I am in real life, but if you'd like to know... Besides being a mother of three children mostly all grown now, I also built my own business in a foriegn land and ran it alone, had a side business training horses and dogs, part of the year I taught swimming classes to small children, the other part, english classes. I also ran my household on top of it all (my husband has never cooked anything in his life nor changed a diaper).

In all these areas, one is obligated to exercise power and authority. And though with small children the approach can be subtle, with some horses, and some business collegues, a much more assertive approach is necessary!

But when you are carrying such responsibility, it is very very important to know the difference between being assertive and being hostile-aggressive.



edit on 14-10-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Bluesma
 


I might even go as far to say that observation of the way a person conducts themselves in life, integrity, matching words and walk, is proportional to the strength of their will power. So a person who genuinely proclaims they can resist temptation and have a track record to back it up, yes they have a strong will power.


Or they do not have the same temptations! One could find something is tempting and another less so.
I find chocolate much more tempting than power, for example! I could say anyone who can resist chocolate has a strong will.... or maybe they just don't like chocolate too much.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Bluesma
 


The manifestation of thoughts and ideas in group situations, through media, or any forum where people are debating and interacting has to be influencing peoples thoughts. This is undeniable, and i think we can agree is just the way it happens in our surface reality. Whats going on in the depth is at the movie projector. There our true feeling and wisdom reside.

Now you say you dont believe in evil. What if some people have true feelings that seek to project manifestations of harm to people. Wouldnt that imply wisdom has two forms one good and one evil.

I can accept through a natural manifestation of thoughts and ideas that this has a influencing affect on peoples ideas. Some people to the point where there own thoughts slot into the overarch source and heirachy, in such a way they become dominated.

I accept some forms for domination are ok, as you described you with examples of raising children and horse training. Dont forget however some people harm these creatures. Is this not the impulses of evil wisdom projected from the depths of insidious minds?



edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:35 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I checked hi Mooj movies.

I like the analogy of our frontal reality as we experience in our daily interactions being a cinema movie screen. We have our deeper thoughts and feelings being the movie patron watching it all play out. The things i took away from his words was

"constantly tidy up existance"
- "Just let things be"
- "dont get caught up in background noise"
- "Things happening on the screen are ridiculous"
- "Thats ok just let it be"

U realise a banana fell from roof and hit me in head everytime i got a realisation


edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:41 AM
link   
reply to post by AthlonSavage
 


Existence does not need to be tidied up. It is doing itself.
When you find yourself here and now you can just watch existence arising where it is. Existence is only ever 'this' present moment and you will be where the action is happening.
Humans generally live in the past or future - they think about past and are always waiting for next. When it is realized that you are where the (only/real) action is happening there is a relaxation.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:41 AM
link   



The manifestation of thoughts and ideas in group situations, through media, or any forum where people are debating and interacting has to be influencing peoples thoughts. This is undeniable, and i think we can agree is just the way it happens in our surface reality.


Remember that we were discerning a difference between debates and discussions which are competative and those which are aimed at personal development. The "impregnation" metaphor was related to the attempt to dominate another- to make them change their mind against their will.
The difference between a boxing match and a flee market!






Now you say you dont believe in evil. What if some people have true feelings that seek to project manifestations of harm to people. Wouldnt that imply wisdom has two forms one good and one evil.


I have repeated many times that I do not believe in evil- I do not ascribe ot that system. Each situation and person must be regarded- no clean sweeping judgment can be made, for me. Even if that can seem easier and give me a sense of security. I find it" false security."
Is it evil if you harm a man who is in the act of killing an innocent child?
Is it evil if you harm an animal that is in the act of stomping a person to death out of fear?

The dual system of good and evil is ineffective in practice, maladapted to reality, thus the problem of hypocrisy.
It is ONLY useful for creating a feeling of security and calming fears of future. (which is necessary in some moments and cases!!).

In my view, there really is no effective alternatives to being here and now completely.



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 03:46 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





Existence does not need to be tidied up. It is doing itself.
When you find yourself here and now you can just watch existence arising where it is. Existence is only ever 'this' present moment and you will be where the action is happening.
Humans generally live in the past or future - they think about past and are always waiting for next. When it is realized that you are where the (only/real) action is happening there is a relaxation.


You do realise you are implying without saying it that our whole lifes are scripted. Everything that has happened in past, and occurring now and into future is a done deal. Everything from when we eat to when we sleep, people we meet, people we love, the sorrow we weep. Everything! Even our date of death.

Do you agree?



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:00 AM
link   
reply to post by Bluesma
 





The difference between a boxing match and a flee market!


How much ego does a person impregnate into a a market place?, how does a person appropriately measure that?. Do you accept that it could vary alot due to the inherency of people having to make many decisions in life subjectively. Subjective judgements which may orignate from a learned heirach.

Do you think free will is real, or just a brain manifestation for ego?



Is it evil if you harm a man who is in the act of killing an innocent child?

Is it evil if you harm an animal that is in the act of stomping a person to death out of fear?



No! and No!



The dual system of good and evil is ineffective in practice, maladapted to reality, thus the problem of hypocrisy.


Yes but where does hypocrys come from...yes people. Do you see hyprocracy as not evil?



In my view, there really is no effective alternatives to being here and now completely.


How confident are you that you live in the here and how.? What metric are you using to verify this is truely the situation.

edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


You do realise you are implying without saying it that our whole lifes are scripted. Everything that has happened in past, and occurring now and into future is a done deal. Everything from when we eat to when we sleep, people we meet, people we love, the sorrow we weep. Everything! Even our date of death.

Do you agree?

Everything is happening just the way it is - no one could have done it different, there is no one.
The movie happens and it is a mystery.
This being, this timeless being is just being what it is. The confusion arises when 'time' is introduced. The words decieve.
Past and future are words appearing now - any thought that tells a story about tomorrow is happening presently.
There is no tomorrow:
youtu.be...



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Ill watch Vid. Hopefully that will clarify some things you said. I feel your answer didnt really concisely answer my question.

edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:15 AM
link   
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I watched Vid and something struck me as contradictory. He was saying there is no real thing as a yesterday or today or tommorow. Then he went on to say because this the case then there is no point worrying about tommorow.

This appears contradictory to what i see in real life.
If what he is proclaiming is fact then how did the world become constructed?
For example we see technology, and social ideas, and different institutions and places in society changing and evolving.
Can you see now the contradiction how can evolution happen unless there is a real progression of time occurring?


edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 04:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I watched Vid and something struck me as contradictory. He was saying there is no real thing as a yesterday or today or tommorow. Then he went on to say because this the case then there is no point worrying about tommorow.

This appears contradictory to what i see in real life.
If what he is proclaiming is fact then how did the world become constructed?
For example we see technology, and social ideas, and different institutions and places in society changing and evolving.
Can you see now the contradiction how can evolution happen unless there is a real progression of time occurring?


edit on 14-10-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)


There is no 'time'. There is only timeless being - presence.
Only a mind can 'imagine' a past or future. Words heard like 'tomorrow' make us erect an imaginary stage where the 'me' (illusionary, false 'me') plays in an imaginary life.
The 'me' that exists 'tomorrow' is delusional.
There is only presence. All stories arise in presence - the stories are fairy stories that start - 'Once upon a time, in a far off land' - it is make believe.
edit on 14-10-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join